Clio 172/182 Cup vs Golf Mk2 GTi vs 106 GTi
Discussion
Apparently like many others of these boards, the process of choosing my next car is long but enjoyable one. Despite only being 6 weeks into the ownership of my present vehicle, it's time to start pondering the next.
I commute by (pedal) bike, so it'll mainly be used as a runabout, for recreation, with the occasional long motorway slog and (hopefully and if funds allow) track day.
I've owned 3 cars in my motoring life, all of which were or are FWD. Before I make the switch to a 'pusher', I want to have a car that epitomises the FWD genre, with the emphasis firmly on fun. A final tribute to FWD if you will.
So, with that in mind, my requirements are as follows; first and foremostly it'll be a hot hatch, but more specifically it needs to be brimming with feedback, light on it's feet - not to bludgeon the road into submission like my current T5-dragged Volvo.
Other than communicative handling, my other main factor is running costs, not in terms of fuel, tax and insurance which I can plan for, but more the chance of bits going wrong, and the cost to mend.
I've narrowed to choices down to these as follows;
Renault Clio 172 Cup or 182 Cup
Pros:
Quickest in a straight line
Most modern in design
Cons:
Fattest tyres (poor feedback and less approachable limits)
Poor reputation for reliability
3 door
VW Golf (Mk2) GTi 5 door
Pros:
Practically of 5 doors
Retro-cool factor - best looks of the 3
Lack of power steering (I believe) and narrow tyres > good feedback
Cons:
Old > components closer to end of useful life > more expensive to run
Old > suspension past it's best > poor handling
Hardest to find a nice (rust free and unmodified) example
Peugeot 106 GTi
Pros:
Lightest and most 'chuckable'
Narrowest tyres (more approachable limits)
Low running costs?
Cons:
Not that quick in a straight line
Perceived quality
Comfort on motorway slogs
3 door
I commute by (pedal) bike, so it'll mainly be used as a runabout, for recreation, with the occasional long motorway slog and (hopefully and if funds allow) track day.
I've owned 3 cars in my motoring life, all of which were or are FWD. Before I make the switch to a 'pusher', I want to have a car that epitomises the FWD genre, with the emphasis firmly on fun. A final tribute to FWD if you will.
So, with that in mind, my requirements are as follows; first and foremostly it'll be a hot hatch, but more specifically it needs to be brimming with feedback, light on it's feet - not to bludgeon the road into submission like my current T5-dragged Volvo.
Other than communicative handling, my other main factor is running costs, not in terms of fuel, tax and insurance which I can plan for, but more the chance of bits going wrong, and the cost to mend.
I've narrowed to choices down to these as follows;
Renault Clio 172 Cup or 182 Cup
Pros:
Quickest in a straight line
Most modern in design
Cons:
Fattest tyres (poor feedback and less approachable limits)
Poor reputation for reliability
3 door
VW Golf (Mk2) GTi 5 door
Pros:
Practically of 5 doors
Retro-cool factor - best looks of the 3
Lack of power steering (I believe) and narrow tyres > good feedback
Cons:
Old > components closer to end of useful life > more expensive to run
Old > suspension past it's best > poor handling
Hardest to find a nice (rust free and unmodified) example
Peugeot 106 GTi
Pros:
Lightest and most 'chuckable'
Narrowest tyres (more approachable limits)
Low running costs?
Cons:
Not that quick in a straight line
Perceived quality
Comfort on motorway slogs
3 door
Out of the 3 cars you have narrowed it down too i'd choose the 172 cup. (Although i am biased as i have got 2) They handle well reasonably cheap to buy and maintain. (Apart from cambelts, that is a £600 job at a specialist) My daily one returns 39mpg on a run. Quite a few people change the standard 16's for 15's for cheaper tyres although i havent.
As you say the golf is quite old now so will be hard to find one in decent condition, although not impossible. And i feel the 106 Gti is a lot of money for what it is.
anyway just my 2p worth good luck with the search.
As you say the golf is quite old now so will be hard to find one in decent condition, although not impossible. And i feel the 106 Gti is a lot of money for what it is.
anyway just my 2p worth good luck with the search.
Mk2's do have power steering - its belt driven. It would have to be a 16 valve. An 8v wouldn't cut the mustard. We bought a mk2 16v and ended up spending a small fortune because a lot of the parts were knackered. My mate did suggest a RenaultSport Clio but i disregarded his opinion.
With hindsight he might've been right for once :-) Peugeot 106's are also very enticing especially looking at the prices and bang for buck. If I were looking again I certainly wouldn't discount the French cars like I did before......
With hindsight he might've been right for once :-) Peugeot 106's are also very enticing especially looking at the prices and bang for buck. If I were looking again I certainly wouldn't discount the French cars like I did before......
The 106's have a decent turn of pace, not far off 1*2's and certainly quicker than any mk2 golf. If you dont mind dated interiors, rubbish crash protection and a genuinley small car i'd go 106 gti/saxo vts. You sit low compaired to a 1*2, they are so much fun!
All your choices will go wrong unfortunatly, but shouldnt break the bank.
Cambelts on 1*2's
rust on 106 gti bootfloor/inner chassis/rear axle bearings shot.
mk2 golf, check rust everywhere, check runs nice and smooth (injection system - from rusty fuel filler neck, to injection probs. Head gasket, timing chain (16v) etc etc. There old cars :-(
All your choices will go wrong unfortunatly, but shouldnt break the bank.
Cambelts on 1*2's
rust on 106 gti bootfloor/inner chassis/rear axle bearings shot.
mk2 golf, check rust everywhere, check runs nice and smooth (injection system - from rusty fuel filler neck, to injection probs. Head gasket, timing chain (16v) etc etc. There old cars :-(
Edited by exgtt on Monday 9th April 22:34
not260 said:
The standard tyre width on these cars are similar, 185 on the golf and pug and 195on the clio. Mk2 golfs don't perform or handle like the other 2.
I think you should get a 205 gti or a 309 gti failing that the clio is probably the best of your choices.
Didn't realise the tyre widths were so similar. In which case you can discount my arguments pertaining to them. I think you should get a 205 gti or a 309 gti failing that the clio is probably the best of your choices.
Not so keen on the 205 / 309 GTi as I've heard they're quite "snappy" at the limit.
I actually wanted a MK2 GTi a while back, had the money to buy one and insurance ready to go. There were a few decent looking ones in my area so I tried to pick a middle of the road budget, about £2000-£2500 at the time, reasoning that the ones around the £1000 were probably bangers and the minters that were £4000+ would not stay mint for long if used every day. What an absolute load of s
te all the cars I went to see turned out to be. Rust, rust and more rust, knackered clutches, iffy starter motors, one car even had a speedo that didn't work at all.
Nothing terminal (bar the rust) but the mechanicals on these cars were tired. A few of them drove alright once they were on the move, but they were definitely in need of refreshment. And thats before you consider the "scene tax" that MK2 GTis have now. Not a cheap car if you want a good one, and certainly not that hardy any more, unless you spend a fair bit replacing and refreshing bits.
te all the cars I went to see turned out to be. Rust, rust and more rust, knackered clutches, iffy starter motors, one car even had a speedo that didn't work at all. Nothing terminal (bar the rust) but the mechanicals on these cars were tired. A few of them drove alright once they were on the move, but they were definitely in need of refreshment. And thats before you consider the "scene tax" that MK2 GTis have now. Not a cheap car if you want a good one, and certainly not that hardy any more, unless you spend a fair bit replacing and refreshing bits.
I'd choose the 106 GTi, though you'll struggle to find a good one for a decent price now as they seem to attract a premium over the Saxo VTS!
That said, I'd not get too hung up on saying goodbye to FWD and moving onto RWD. If you really like pressing on, you'll probably find FWD or AWD far better for making progress on UK roads than RWD.
That said, I'd not get too hung up on saying goodbye to FWD and moving onto RWD. If you really like pressing on, you'll probably find FWD or AWD far better for making progress on UK roads than RWD.
Synchromesh said:
This is what worries me.
Yeah, the problem is they are old cars but a well sorted mk2 is still a fantastic handling car if all the bushes have been renewed and the suspension uprated. We ended up fitting a 2.0 16v ABF to ours (the original KR blew up on an auto solo) and it would then keep up with Series 1 Elises at Castle Combe. Parts are also still plentiful and cheap from places like GSF and ECP. Second gear syncro is a common problem.I'm with you on the looks though. Out of curiosity, why a 5 door?
A interesting selection.
I've friends who own all of these cars, i own a selection of mk2 GTIs and have had a play in the 106 GTI and a 172.
The golf is clearly the far older car but that does not mean it will need the most work! There are a lot of mk2s that have had the right money spent on them so you are unlikely to find ones now that still have original suspension/braking/steering components.
As much as I love my mk2 the 182cup is the only one id swap it for as the 106 is just a tad too small.
What you need to add to your list though is a 306 GTI-6, a friend just picked up a R plate with 100k on it, huge amount of service history and its in pretty good nick for £1k and is in my opinion a perfect option as it is that bit newer than the mk2 golf, should be more reliable and they handle just as well.
I've friends who own all of these cars, i own a selection of mk2 GTIs and have had a play in the 106 GTI and a 172.
The golf is clearly the far older car but that does not mean it will need the most work! There are a lot of mk2s that have had the right money spent on them so you are unlikely to find ones now that still have original suspension/braking/steering components.
As much as I love my mk2 the 182cup is the only one id swap it for as the 106 is just a tad too small.
What you need to add to your list though is a 306 GTI-6, a friend just picked up a R plate with 100k on it, huge amount of service history and its in pretty good nick for £1k and is in my opinion a perfect option as it is that bit newer than the mk2 golf, should be more reliable and they handle just as well.
Baryonyx said:
If you really like pressing on, you'll probably find FWD or AWD far better for making progress on UK roads than RWD.
I pressing on, but pressing on in relation to the capabilities of the car rather than overall journey time. My S60 T5 is all too capable in the respect, doesn't provide the 2-way interaction I crave, and rewards you with little at legal speeds.My first car was a classic mini, and in a way this is the kind of fun I'm after. Chuckable and communicative in equal measure - just this time something a little bigger, more practical and a lot more powerful.
3 very fanboy cars there. 1/3 will say get the Clio, 1/3 will say get the Golf, and the other 1/3 will say get the 106.
I'd probably go for the 106. It will be less to insure then the Clio, and for the money, you can get a better example of a 106 then the Golf. I reckon it will be the most agile, and the engine can be tuned quite a bit. If you had said Saxo VTS though, I'd rather get the Clio as the Saxo has a very chavvy image round where I live, and the 106 just don't seem to have a chav car image round here, I also think the 106 looks better then a Saxo.
I'd probably go for the 106. It will be less to insure then the Clio, and for the money, you can get a better example of a 106 then the Golf. I reckon it will be the most agile, and the engine can be tuned quite a bit. If you had said Saxo VTS though, I'd rather get the Clio as the Saxo has a very chavvy image round where I live, and the 106 just don't seem to have a chav car image round here, I also think the 106 looks better then a Saxo.
Biased opinion but I love the Clio 182. The tyre width is 205 btw on the 182. It is the fastest of the cars mentioned and I love mine to bits.
The 106/saxo is nice, but if you're much over 6ft or a shoe size 9 then you might find the seating position and pedal layout somewhat cramped.
The 306 is a lovely chassis and they can be had for bargain prices now, I was tempted myself before I settled on the clio.
The Golf GTI mk2 will be much more expensive to buy for a good one and most of them seem to have been ruined by the DUB lot. All the accounts and comparisons I have seen indicate that they are rather overrated to drive as well.
I think if you want a lightweight, communicative and fun hot hatch then it has to be French. Pretty much all of the older Peugeot hot hatches (306 and older) are superb and all of the hot Clios.
The 106/saxo is nice, but if you're much over 6ft or a shoe size 9 then you might find the seating position and pedal layout somewhat cramped.
The 306 is a lovely chassis and they can be had for bargain prices now, I was tempted myself before I settled on the clio.
The Golf GTI mk2 will be much more expensive to buy for a good one and most of them seem to have been ruined by the DUB lot. All the accounts and comparisons I have seen indicate that they are rather overrated to drive as well.
I think if you want a lightweight, communicative and fun hot hatch then it has to be French. Pretty much all of the older Peugeot hot hatches (306 and older) are superb and all of the hot Clios.
Re: the Clios..
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I read someone else suggest the best of the bunch is the 'Trophy'.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I read someone else suggest the best of the bunch is the 'Trophy'.
Edited by Digby on Tuesday 10th April 01:15
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