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Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
I've put a deposit down on an Audi S3 (Old shape) and when I HPI'd it it has come back showing:


"VRM currently recorded by an insurance company as a theft" (see below).


It is a '53 plate but has had a private plate on at some point, I've heard that can affect HPI checks if that plate has every been on a private vehicle but the woman on the phone told me it was registered with an HPI Stolen Marker on 03/06/2009.

She said she will arrange for the marker to be taken off but what does it actually mean has happened to the car, and how could I find out? I am meant to be picking up the car on Monday and am having a comprehensive car check done on Monday before I take it away by DEKRA Vehicle Inspections who do inspections for the AA. I'm not too fussed if it is nothing serious but would be nice to know what the marker relates to!

It is a trade sale and the dealer is looking into it as he was "unaware" of the marker, even though the advert says it was "HPI checked" and my friend who was with me said he said it was HPI clear although I do not remember him actually saying it.





Can anyone tell me what this means please?

So current plate was on the vehicle when the marker was put on. (Original **53*** plate)

Edited by Timbuk2 on Wednesday 11th April 20:24

rallycross

6,026 posts

125 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
It's usually obvious when there is just a mistake on HpI but this one is harder to explain.

And lots of S3's were stolen (strange but true).

Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Yes, I'm going to ring HPI tomorrow and see if I can get some more info out of them, he insurance company/details would be nice.

Mr Happy

4,527 posts

108 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
I had a car show up as an outstanding stolen car once. The report had the number of the police force who were looking for it (Birmingham iirc), so I called the number, they liased with the local force who sent a cop around to see about (and sieze) the car.

It didn't come to that though, as what had happened was the car *had* been stolen with keys, but it was recovered. The recovering force hadn't cancelled the stolen marker on the PNC, which could have lead to quite a few ANPR-related problems had I have bought it!

Steffan

9,364 posts

116 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
If you are buying from a bone fide dealer (contradiction in terms) I find it odd that they did not HPI the car. All the dealers seem to do this.

I would be very cautious with this dealer. If you go ahead you may be OK but there are a lot of cars about. You could lose out on this.
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Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
I've just read in the report:


"Each year 150,000 vehicle thefts are recorded by insurers. HPI Check will tell you whether a vehicle you are looking to buy has any outstanding insurance interest recorded against it, which may mean that you can't legally own it, however much you may ultimately pay for it. For further information see FAQ

As a result of your check HPI will contact the insurer to determine whether it is owned by them. We recommend that you do not buy the vehicle before you have received the result of this investigation which may take up to 5 working days."


I certainly will not be buying it before they've contacted the insurance company and found out the score!

Drive Blind

1,015 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
so from that HPI report,

No record of theft by the Police, but a record of theft by an insurance company? Am I reading that right?

Is that possible? Can you make a claim against the insurance company (for theft of a motor vehicle) without notifying the police?

LoonR1

19,470 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
This is going to sound very sarcastic, but I would suggest that it means that the car has been stolen at soe point in it's life.

Whether it's just an oversight following recovery and can be removed depends on the situation, although it could still end up with a marker as a Cat D or X (I think it might be "E" now) against it. This would be where the insurer has already paid out on the vehicle to the owner who had it stolen.

I'm no expert at the ins & outs of this stuff, as I gave up our Total Loss dept about 3 years ago to focus on other aspect of the Motor book.

Steffan

9,364 posts

116 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
LoonR1 said:
This is going to sound very sarcastic, but I would suggest that it means that the car has been stolen at soe point in it's life.

Whether it's just an oversight following recovery and can be removed depends on the situation, although it could still end up with a marker as a Cat D or X (I think it might be "E" now) against it. This would be where the insurer has already paid out on the vehicle to the owner who had it stolen.

I'm no expert at the ins & outs of this stuff, as I gave up our Total Loss dept about 3 years ago to focus on other aspect of the Motor book.
Another good reason to look elsewhere

Drive Blind

1,015 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Timbuk2 said:
She said she will arrange for the marker to be taken off
Is this not also worrying?

You phone up and query a stolen marker and they say 'OK, we'll just take it off then'

Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Drive Blind said:
so from that HPI report,

No record of theft by the Police, but a record of theft by an insurance company? Am I reading that right?

Is that possible? Can you make a claim against the insurance company (for theft of a motor vehicle) without notifying the police?
Yes - not sure exactly is going on, hopefully HPI will be able to find out and tell me.


LoonR1 said:
This is going to sound very sarcastic, but I would suggest that it means that the car has been stolen at some point in it's life.

Whether it's just an oversight following recovery and can be removed depends on the situation, although it could still end up with a marker as a Cat D or X (I think it might be "E" now) against it. This would be where the insurer has already paid out on the vehicle to the owner who had it stolen.

I'm no expert at the ins & outs of this stuff, as I gave up our Total Loss dept about 3 years ago to focus on other aspect of the Motor book.
I don't think there is any question that it has been stolen at some point (unless it is a mistake which from what I've read tonight is possible, but probably unlikely), just want to find out the circumstances exactly and see if it still worth buying - there aren't that many for sale with such a low mileage and age (one of the last made).


Steffan said:
Another good reason to look elsewhere
I am thinking about it, trouble is there aren't many about.


Drive Blind said:
Is this not also worrying?

You phone up and query a stolen marker and they say 'OK, we'll just take it off then'
Not sure if that's exactly what she said as that was with the DEKRA Vehicle Inspection lady (free HPI as part of the inspection), she said it was listed as "Theft Marked" but could be removed if it had been resolved by the insurance company so then I did a proper HPI check to get the details for myself.

Yes I don't think all trace of the fact it was stolen should be able to be removed - surely this just makes a joke of the HPI check - if the dealer had checked it himself he could just have done it himself and I would never have known.

LoonR1

19,470 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Timbuk2 said:
I don't think there is any question that it has been stolen at some point (unless it is a mistake which from what I've read tonight is possible, but probably unlikely), just want to find out the circumstances exactly and see if it still worth buying - there aren't that many for sale with such a low mileage and age (one of the last made).
Then it will have a reduced value by definition, so maybe not the bargain you think it is. If you're happy with the history and not worried about hassle on resale then go for it.

Dogwatch

3,860 posts

110 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Timbuk2 said:
I would never have known.
You would probably have found out at the worst time - when you came to sell it,

tvrgit

8,201 posts

140 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Steffan said:
If you are buying from a bone fide dealer (contradiction in terms) I find it odd that they did not HPI the car. All the dealers seem to do this.

I would be very cautious with this dealer. If you go ahead you may be OK but there are a lot of cars about. You could lose out on this.
The dealer appears to have told the OP that they HAD an HPI on the car, when quite evidently they didn't. For that reason alone, I wouldn't be cautious with this dealer. I would just walk. No, make that run.

I see the OP says "there aren't many of this car about" so I understand the temptation. I still wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless I was 100% (not 99.9%) happy that this was sorted out, and had paperwork to prove.

Emeye

5,421 posts

111 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
I had something similar a few years back. I bought a HPI'd Audi A4 off a trader in winter and discovered that the aircon was borked when it warmed up a few days later. As the car was still in warranty I was hoping it would be covered, but Audi presented me with a bill for £1k as they said the car showed signs of being grounded which had snapped the aircon pipes. After a fight I got the money off the trader, but was shocked that 3 months later, having never clicked with the car, it came up as Stolen Recovered on Experian when I tried to part-ex it!

I spoke to Experian and questioned why it would be on their Database and not on HPI's. After a couple of days they came back and said it was a mistake that the flag had not been removed!

It appeared that the damage to the underside of the car had been caused when the car was chased onto rough ground.

How the hell this can then be removed from the Database is beyond me?! I would have neve bought the car if I'd known it was Stolen Recovered.

Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
LoonR1 said:
This is going to sound very sarcastic, but I would suggest that it means that the car has been stolen at some point in it's life.

Whether it's just an oversight following recovery and can be removed depends on the situation, although it could still end up with a marker as a Cat D or X (I think it might be "E" now) against it. This would be where the insurer has already paid out on the vehicle to the owner who had it stolen.

I'm no expert at the ins & outs of this stuff, as I gave up our Total Loss dept about 3 years ago to focus on other aspect of the Motor book.
Sorry I missed that bit before, if it is going to be 'Cat' registered I think I will forget it, so I suppose it remains to be seen the outcome of these findings. Wasn't exactly a bargain anyway so not a massive loss.


Dogwatch said:
You would probably have found out at the worst time - when you came to sell it.
Yes, thank god I decided to have an inspection done on it that included a HPI check, I don't know why I didn't do one anyway, I will NEVER be buying anything without one again! Lesson learnt at least.

---

I wonder if there will be much hassle getting the deposit back if I back out. Advert says HPI Checked and 3 owners, when in actual fact it clearly hasn't been HPI checked and it has 3 PREVIOUS owners on the V5 and the current is the 4th.

Shouldn't be too hard, especially if it comes back 'Cat' registered.

Emeye

5,421 posts

111 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Timbuk2 said:
Yes, thank god I decided to have an inspection done on it that included a HPI check, I don't know why I didn't do one anyway, I will NEVER be buying anything without one again! Lesson learnt at least.

---

I wonder if there will be much hassle getting the deposit back if I back out. Advert says HPI Checked and 3 owners, when in actual fact it clearly hasn't been HPI checked and it has 3 PREVIOUS owners on the V5 and the current is the 4th.

Shouldn't be too hard, especially if it comes back 'Cat' registered.
Thing is, HPI Checked just means it has been checked. Very misleading. Just as Fully Serviced doesn't mean it has a full service history.

It's just more car sales bks. Of I ever see any car sales bullst in an advert I ignore it. It's so obvious that if a car salesman has to spin the lingo then there is something to hide!

I wouldn't accept anything other than your full deposit back!

Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Emeye said:
Thing is, HPI Checked just means it has been checked. Very misleading. Just as Fully Serviced doesn't mean it has a full service history.

It's just more car sales bks. Of I ever see any car sales bullst in an advert I ignore it. It's so obvious that if a car salesman has to spin the lingo then there is something to hide!

I wouldn't accept anything other than your full deposit back!
I've decided to maybe cancel, still considering my options.

Who knew buying a used car could be such a minefield biggrin.

Thanks for all your comments.

Edited by Timbuk2 on Thursday 12th April 13:21

Steffan

9,364 posts

116 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Did you pay the deposit by Credit Card? Always the safer way.

Timbuk2

Original Poster:

1,250 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Steffan said:
Did you pay the deposit by Credit Card? Always the safer way.
Well it was VISA Debit, I think the same protection applies.
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