Using hand held mobile phone as "sat nav" whilst driving.
Discussion
Your views please...?
This is becoming an increasing problem. Phones have so many functions. What about Iphone with Ipod on it connected up to car stereo - changing tracks....
Do you think you have to be using a phone as a phone (texting/calling) to be guilty?
"Interactive communication function..." ?
This is becoming an increasing problem. Phones have so many functions. What about Iphone with Ipod on it connected up to car stereo - changing tracks....
Do you think you have to be using a phone as a phone (texting/calling) to be guilty?
"Interactive communication function..." ?
covboy said:
Who was the Celeb who got off after claiming he was using his phone as a voice recorder?
That was Jimmy Carr. It was in the mags court so did not set a precedent that would bind any other court(unfortunately).I have come up against the prosecutor that lost that case and she has stated "I will never lose another like that again!!" It is not up to her going forward but she took it hard.
g3org3y said:
My understanding was that even holding the phone, regardless of what it is being used for is an offence?
Wasn't there a chap on here who got done for picking it up and looking at who was calling (without answering)?
I have won cases where they were switching it off - but if you hold it and its a phone the magistrates are tending to take the view they don't care what the function is that you are using it for.Wasn't there a chap on here who got done for picking it up and looking at who was calling (without answering)?
The legislation suggests it is only a phone if it is used for telecommunication purposes - but sat nav is all communicating with a satellite. Dangerous stuff..I think phones with a sat nav should come with a warning!
Ms Demeanor said:
Do you think you have to be using a phone as a phone (texting/calling) to be guilty?
What do you think parliament's intention was when they introduced the [vague] legislation ?And do you think that this differs from the interpretation applied by your average plod and average magistrate ?
g3org3y said:
My understanding was that even holding the phone, regardless of what it is being used for is an offence?
Wasn't there a chap on here who got done for picking it up and looking at who was calling (without answering)?
There are plenty that have been convicted on that basis. Looking at it can = using. That sort of makes sense especially if you are looking at a text - but what if you are looking at the clock?Wasn't there a chap on here who got done for picking it up and looking at who was calling (without answering)?
SS2. said:
Ms Demeanor said:
Do you think you have to be using a phone as a phone (texting/calling) to be guilty?
What do you think parliament's intention was when they introduced the [vague] legislation ?And do you think that this differs from the interpretation applied by your average plod and average magistrate ?
I think average man in the street is being lulled into thinking that if they are not using it "as a phone" they are not guilty. The legislation is appallingly out of date and needs to be updated to deal with all these functions....
g3org3y said:
My understanding was that even holding the phone, regardless of what it is being used for is an offence?
Wasn't there a chap on here who got done for picking it up and looking at who was calling (without answering)?
We’ve had plenty of threads describing what I wasn’t doing when holding my mobile and driving – along with tales of people being done when the BiB were obviously wrongWasn't there a chap on here who got done for picking it up and looking at who was calling (without answering)?
Streaky may well be along to repeat the tale of his BIL (I think it was) and also being “driven” along with someone very “important” when his driver was stopped for alleged use of a mobile. The “important” person was soon able to put the BiB in his place !
joewilliams said:
crocodile tears said:
I've often wondered this too - been pretty much required on a couple of occasions to hold my phone acting as a satnav as there's been absolutely nowhere to put it and listening to it won't be much help.
Universal windscreen mounts cost ten or twenty quid.But the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone..
That does not necessarily mean it has to be held in your hand at the time you are using it if you read it carefully. The phone is still a hand held mobile phone (its designed to be held in your hand) even when its in a holder?
The issue of hand held is too vague. What's a legitimate hands free device?? I had a chap with a bit of velcro on his seat belt and a bit of velcro on his phone. He would stick the phone to the velcro on getting in and buckling up and then use it on speaker phone without ever holding it. I wanted to run it as a trial but he had no money to instruct.
Ms Demeanor said:
Average plod think having a phone anywhere other than in the boot is an offence.
I think average man in the street is being lulled into thinking that if they are not using it "as a phone" they are not guilty. The legislation is appallingly out of date and needs to be updated to deal with all these functions....
Why does the legislation need updating?I think average man in the street is being lulled into thinking that if they are not using it "as a phone" they are not guilty. The legislation is appallingly out of date and needs to be updated to deal with all these functions....
it says "..the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone."
As it is written it covers any use and as I understand it from the persons who wrote the legislation this is the intent.
Why would it be necessary to put in a list of individual applications that cannot be used? Write the legislation in a way that needs no updating and bars all use; that makes perfect sense.
Jimmy Carr was lucky, as the CPS solicitor says; that isn't likely to occur again.
Ms Demeanor said:
Agreed. The best bet at the moment is do not hold it!
But the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone..
That does not necessarily mean it has to be held in your hand at the time you are using it if you read it carefully. The phone is still a hand held mobile phone (its designed to be held in your hand) even when its in a holder?
The issue of hand held is too vague. What's a legitimate hands free device?? I had a chap with a bit of velcro on his seat belt and a bit of velcro on his phone. He would stick the phone to the velcro on getting in and buckling up and then use it on speaker phone without ever holding it. I wanted to run it as a trial but he had no money to instruct.
There you have it then. If you are using a moby whether you're using it as a moby or not you are still using it. A Hand held phone only becomes a 'hands free' phone once it is located in a hands free cradle. Take it out of the cradle whilst driving and it's a hand held phone once again and illegal to use. But the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone..
That does not necessarily mean it has to be held in your hand at the time you are using it if you read it carefully. The phone is still a hand held mobile phone (its designed to be held in your hand) even when its in a holder?
The issue of hand held is too vague. What's a legitimate hands free device?? I had a chap with a bit of velcro on his seat belt and a bit of velcro on his phone. He would stick the phone to the velcro on getting in and buckling up and then use it on speaker phone without ever holding it. I wanted to run it as a trial but he had no money to instruct.
It isn't a sat nav and whilst so far in law it isn't strictly illegal to use a sat nav, try as I might I can't contact my Auntie Doris on my Garmin whereas I have no problems on my I-phone.
oldsoak said:
Ms Demeanor said:
Agreed. The best bet at the moment is do not hold it!
But the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone..
That does not necessarily mean it has to be held in your hand at the time you are using it if you read it carefully. The phone is still a hand held mobile phone (its designed to be held in your hand) even when its in a holder?
The issue of hand held is too vague. What's a legitimate hands free device?? I had a chap with a bit of velcro on his seat belt and a bit of velcro on his phone. He would stick the phone to the velcro on getting in and buckling up and then use it on speaker phone without ever holding it. I wanted to run it as a trial but he had no money to instruct.
There you have it then. If you are using a moby whether you're using it as a moby or not you are still using it. A Hand held phone only becomes a 'hands free' phone once it is located in a hands free cradle. Take it out of the cradle whilst driving and it's a hand held phone once again and illegal to use. But the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone..
That does not necessarily mean it has to be held in your hand at the time you are using it if you read it carefully. The phone is still a hand held mobile phone (its designed to be held in your hand) even when its in a holder?
The issue of hand held is too vague. What's a legitimate hands free device?? I had a chap with a bit of velcro on his seat belt and a bit of velcro on his phone. He would stick the phone to the velcro on getting in and buckling up and then use it on speaker phone without ever holding it. I wanted to run it as a trial but he had no money to instruct.
It isn't a sat nav and whilst so far in law it isn't strictly illegal to use a sat nav, try as I might I can't contact my Auntie Doris on my Garmin whereas I have no problems on my I-phone.
pitmansboots said:
Why does the legislation need updating?
it says "..the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone."
As it is written it covers any use and as I understand it from the persons who wrote the legislation this is the intent.
Why would it be necessary to put in a list of individual applications that cannot be used? Write the legislation in a way that needs no updating and bars all use; that makes perfect sense.
Jimmy Carr was lucky, as the CPS solicitor says; that isn't likely to occur again.
Well I'll cheerfully break the law ALL the way home using it as a music player via bluetooth.it says "..the legislation states; No person shall drive a motor on a road if he is using a (i)"hand held" mobile telephone."
As it is written it covers any use and as I understand it from the persons who wrote the legislation this is the intent.
Why would it be necessary to put in a list of individual applications that cannot be used? Write the legislation in a way that needs no updating and bars all use; that makes perfect sense.
Jimmy Carr was lucky, as the CPS solicitor says; that isn't likely to occur again.
I might even run the windows down and kick the volume up to draw attention to my most hideous of crimes, worse than doing it drunk. Apparently.
Ms Demeanor said:
Your views please...?
This is becoming an increasing problem. Phones have so many functions. What about Iphone with Ipod on it connected up to car stereo - changing tracks....
Do you think you have to be using a phone as a phone (texting/calling) to be guilty?
"Interactive communication function..." ?
Just to turn this on its head.. TomTom has for some time been able to be used "for interactive communication functions", that is to say you can send and receive text messages, calls, etc. Granted you can use voice commands to do this, but you can also use the touchscreen. This is becoming an increasing problem. Phones have so many functions. What about Iphone with Ipod on it connected up to car stereo - changing tracks....
Do you think you have to be using a phone as a phone (texting/calling) to be guilty?
"Interactive communication function..." ?
In this capacity how is a TomTom not functioning as a phone?
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