Towbar legality?

[kingofherts]

Hi guys,

I'm hoping some of you can shed some knowledge on any towing laws I need to know about.

I've got a 2005 Ford Transit and I want to tow a water bowser around behind me.

Can I just hook one up and drive about?

Do I need a special licence??

I've got my Class 2 HGV licence, and my car one since 1999, so is that ok?

Also what kind of weight am I allowed to tow? - I have a transit with 3500kg allowance, never more than 200kg in the back - does that mean i can legally tow 3200kg?? I really don't know!!

Thanks in advance.

[kaf]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...

[kingofherts]

Thanks Kaf, I already looked at that page beforehand, but I didnt understand what this meant:

'Drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. In addition to the new driving tests, drivers of vehicles which fall within subcategories C1, C1+E, D1 and D1+E also have to meet higher medical standards.'

As I said, does my Class 2 HGV test mean I am allowed or I need a test?? Im confused!!

[jagracer]

It all depends on the weight of the bowser and what classes you have on your licence. I'm not sure HGV 2 gives you B+E. I have an HGV 1 but according to my licence I can't tow more than a 750kg trailer with a 7.5 ton truck, It's madness as if the truck is larger than 7.5 ton I can tow what I want with it.
The person you need on here is rog (I think)

[paintman]

Why not just look at the thread by ROG. First one on this forum.
Link here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[streaky]

kingofherts said:

I want to tow a water bowser around ...

You live in a hosepipe ban area and are looking to make a quick buck. ICMFP.

Streaky

[Cyberprog]

kingofherts said:

Hi guys,

I'm hoping some of you can shed some knowledge on any towing laws I need to know about.

I've got a 2005 Ford Transit and I want to tow a water bowser around behind me.

Can I just hook one up and drive about?

Do I need a special licence??

I've got my Class 2 HGV licence, and my car one since 1999, so is that ok?

Also what kind of weight am I allowed to tow? - I have a transit with 3500kg allowance, never more than 200kg in the back - does that mean i can legally tow 3200kg?? I really don't know!!

Thanks in advance.

You probably can't tow anything over 750kg. There are some weight things that supposedly allow more on a lesser license, but everyone who asks VOSA and the DVLA gets a different answer, and it's usually either "yes that's allowed" or "you need +E".

Do your class 1 and you'll be sorted.

[kingofherts]

streaky said:

ou live in a hosepipe ban area and are looking to make a quick buck. ICMFP.

Streaky

Hi Streaky,

I'm not quite sure what you mean about 'making a quick buck' or what 'ICMFP' is supposed to mean, but for your information, I'd like to draw your attention to the following information on the hosepipe ban you are so keen to remind me about..

http://hertspressurewashing.co.uk/blog/hose-pipe-b...

I am a legal and above board business with full legal exemption from any hosepipe ban in the areas I cover, and I don't appreciate your ill informed comments trying to paint me out as some 'dodgy geezer'.

[paintman]

Google says 'I claim my five pounds'
Read ROGs towing section yet?

[kingofherts]

Yes i did Paintman! Just about to dust my driving licence off and have a look at the categories!

[covboy]

kingofherts said:

streaky said:

ou live in a hosepipe ban area and are looking to make a quick buck. ICMFP.

Streaky

Hi Streaky,

I'm not quite sure what you mean about 'making a quick buck' or what 'ICMFP' is supposed to mean, but for your information, I'd like to draw your attention to the following information on the hosepipe ban you are so keen to remind me about..

http://hertspressurewashing.co.uk/blog/hose-pipe-b...

I am a legal and above board business with full legal exemption from any hosepipe ban in the areas I cover, and I don't appreciate your ill informed comments trying to paint me out as some 'dodgy geezer'.

Whoosh Parrot at the ready Streaky ?

[R0G]

kingofherts said:

Hi guys,

I'm hoping some of you can shed some knowledge on any towing laws I need to know about.

I've got a 2005 Ford Transit and I want to tow a water bowser around behind me.

Can I just hook one up and drive about?

Do I need a special licence??

I've got my Class 2 HGV licence, and my car one since 1999, so is that ok?

Also what kind of weight am I allowed to tow? - I have a transit with 3500kg allowance, never more than 200kg in the back - does that mean i can legally tow 3200kg?? I really don't know!!

Thanks in advance.

TRANSIT VANS
No towing capacity set by the manufacturer so thats one issue out of the way

They do have PLATED weights which are always listed in this order
GVW - the maximum the van can be when fully loaded
GTW - the max ACTUAL weight the car and trailer can be when put on a weighbridge
AXLE 1 - front axle max weight
AXLE 2 - rear axle max weight
AXLES 1 & 2 will always add up to more than the GVW to allow for load placing flexibility

LICENCES
On a B only licence (no B+E) then if the transit GVW is 3500 the maximum plated trailer weight is only 750 kgs

On a B+E licence the maximum trailer plated weight is 3500 kgs BUT when the van and trailer are loaded their ACTUAL combined weight must not be more than the GTW

Your licence requires a +E on it to be in the B+E rules
Passing LGV C does not get you a +E but passing C+E would get you B+E C1+E and C+E
Getting B+E by passing C+E means that the B+E will last for as long as your B licence remains valid so basically for life

ASSUMING your transit has a plated GVW of between 2750 and 3500 then the water bowser cannot be more than 750 kgs plated MAM or if no plate then the MAM will be what the total of all the tyre load ratings add up to

So now I need to know -
What is the GVW of the transit?
What is the plated MAM of the bowser?

[kingofherts]

Hi Rog, my van is a 3500 mwb transit, but I am afraid I don't have the bowser here to check for any plate info or tyre rating, but.... here is an identical one on ebay with pics of the plates ..?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Western-High-Pressure-Wa...

thanks!

[R0G]

kingofherts said:

Hi Rog, my van is a 3500 mwb transit, but I am afraid I don't have the bowser here to check for any plate info or tyre rating, but.... here is an identical one on ebay with pics of the plates ..?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Western-High-Pressure-Wa...

thanks!

Transit is 3500 GVW so that leaves you with a max 750 kgs on a B licence (no B+E)

The picture of the weight plate on the trailer does no show the MAM but only the unladen weight of 450 kgs and the axle weight of 1500 kgs - silly person who took the pic missed out the important bit!!

I am going to assume that with an axle weight of 1500 the MAM is going to be well over 750 kgs so will need a B+E licence with a vehicle GVW of 3500 kgs

[kingofherts]

Thanks for clearing that up Rog, very good of you.

I will have to look into getting my B+E category somehow, as this is something I want to start doing.

If however, I wanted to tow before then, am I right in thinking that as long as the weight of the bowser doesn't exceed 750kg with water in it, that would be legal with my 'B' category?

Thanks!!

[R0G]

kingofherts said:

Thanks for clearing that up Rog, very good of you.

I will have to look into getting my B+E category somehow, as this is something I want to start doing.

If however, I wanted to tow before then, am I right in thinking that as long as the weight of the bowser doesn't exceed 750kg with water in it, that would be legal with my 'B' category?

Thanks!!

That would be ILLEGAL

It is the GVW of the towing vehicle and the MAM of the trailer addedd together which must not exceed 3500 kgs when towing a trailer over 750 kgs MAM on a B licence

[R0G]

All B licence holders have a B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence

That means they can tow a B+E combination either loaded or empty and on a motorway providing they adhere to these rules:-
Supervising driver must be age 21+ and held B+E for 3+ years
L plates on front of vehicle and rear of trailer
Correct insurance for B+E learner - check with current insurer

===========================================================

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independant drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

PS - as you already have LGV C then I would opt to pay more and get C+E

[davieboy]

Sorry to throw this in, but if you are towing your bowser in the course of business, you probably are into tachograph territory, with all the hassle that goes with it.

I've got one in both my transits, and the discovery.

[R0G]

davieboy said:

Sorry to throw this in, but if you are towing your bowser in the course of business, you probably are into tachograph territory, with all the hassle that goes with it.

I've got one in both my transits, and the discovery.

GOOD POINT !!

Tacho YES as its over 3.5 tonnes MAM combined weight for commercial use BUT if used within 50 km of base only and under 7.5 tonnes then that exception could apply - EU 561/2006 article 13
'O' licence NO as its own goods with trailer under 1020 unladen

[kingofherts]

R0G said:

GOOD POINT !!

Tacho YES as its over 3.5 tonnes MAM combined weight for commercial use BUT if used within 50 km of base only and under 7.5 tonnes then that exception could apply - EU 561/2006 article 13
'O' licence NO as its own goods with trailer under 1020 unladen

That's not something I had even thought about.. BUT, if as ROG says I would be exempt by the sound of it as I do only work within 50kms of my base.. ??