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RDMcG

Original Poster:

7,052 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
Well, here goes. All my prejudices are here. Electric steering, no handbrake,too big and so on. Being used to the edginess of the 997RS it should be interesting to see how it feels in the real world, not trying to set a record Ring time, but a mix of city and long distance driving. I will post impressions when I have had a chance to really get to know it.
Actually, in all honesty I am really interested to see how much progress has been madesmile

hornetrider

40,812 posts

74 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
I realise you are an excellent customer... but 10 days!! You lucky bar steward!

Not Ideal

1,982 posts

57 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
Look forward to your thoughts - your write-ups are always nice and thorough!

Kidhaa

379 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
i never get a 911 now, only boxster ( ps not that i mind )

think last time i got a 911 i ended going way up north

maybe thats why?

RDMcG

Original Poster:

7,052 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
I'm curious to see what its like as a real life road car, because that's its major market. Its always easy to do the "last real Porsche" refrain. The last real Porsche was the..umm...356 pre-A,2.7RS,993TT,996RS,997 4.0??..... I sometimes feel that its like an old movie where the old chaps are sittin' on the porch, whittlin' and chawin' baccy and reminiscing about them good old days.

So, I will not load my cassette of American Pie and head for the Drive-In, but try to see if this is a reasonable car that works in 2012smile. In any case, it has no cassette deck.

Damn.
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Old Trout

1,553 posts

44 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
8 track?

RDMcG

Original Poster:

7,052 posts

76 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
Old Trout said:
8 track?
Its less 8 track-focused than road-focused I hear.

Toooldforthis

123 posts

16 months

[news] 
Friday 27th April 2012 quote quote all
Looking forward to hearing what you have to say and whether the 991 is as dramatic a change as some make out or a subtle improvement on the classic theme

cardigankid

5,962 posts

81 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
It will be interesting to hear what you think.

My experience is limited to a couple of hours test drive, and my issues are as follows:-

1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.

2. Seating / View Out

This is where the 991 feels like a MUCH bigger car. The view is totally different from any previous 911. It feels almost front engined, as if the bonnet rises in front of you then falls away. The 'signature' front wings, which were always so good for 'aiming' a 911, are reduced to crease lines at the outer edges. The nose feels a long way away. It was positively refreshing to step back into a 997.

3. Driving

Yes it is fast, even in basic Carrera form, it is smooth, it is a very refined GT. I never noticed any problems with the steering, I never noticed anything about the steering at all. It seemed to me that it is a very good car, but other than in basic outline, and even that is so big now that it blends with other cars on the road, it isn't really a 911 at all. It is a Panamera Coupe.

Mutt

1,034 posts

60 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.
I think you're under-selling how difficult other manufacturers find this and how subtle it can be. One example is pedal layout. OK, this is perhaps less of an issue in Tiptronic or PDK cars, but I just love the way you can jump in to a 986, 996, 987 or 997 (and I assume, 991 and hopefully 981) and heal-and-toe off the bat. I've not experienced this in any other car I've driven, even other performance cars with floor-hinged accelerators such as BMWs.

RDMcG

Original Poster:

7,052 posts

76 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
Well. let's start with the spec:

991S, with following options:

Lime gold paint
black leather
Premium package w/18 way seats
PDCC
Sport exhaust system
PDK
Light design package
Park assist
Sport Chrono
Electric sunroof
Power steering plus
Bose surround sound system
Sirius satellite radio, ( Its an NA car)
Electric folding mirrors
Sport design steering wheel.

Since Euro prices are different , the total delivered price is going to be irrelevant, but base price is $110K, delivered price $146K. I will report on the experience when I have a chance smile......





cmoose

18,656 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
Mutt said:
I think you're under-selling how difficult other manufacturers find this and how subtle it can be. One example is pedal layout. OK, this is perhaps less of an issue in Tiptronic or PDK cars, but I just love the way you can jump in to a 986, 996, 987 or 997 (and I assume, 991 and hopefully 981) and heal-and-toe off the bat. I've not experienced this in any other car I've driven, even other performance cars with floor-hinged accelerators such as BMWs.
Hmmmm, my E36 BMWs were just as heel ans toeable out of the box as my 986. I find most BMWs are pretty good in this regard.

cardigankid

5,962 posts

81 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
Mutt said:
cardigankid said:
1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.
I think you're under-selling how difficult other manufacturers find this and how subtle it can be.
I agree that many other manufacturers get this wrong - the Jaguar XK seats were useless until they came up with the latest sports seats option, the standard seats in an XF are agonisingly hopeless. The seats in an Audi A4 are pathetic. Mercedes are little better. Porsche's standard seats are nothing to write home about. The only explanation I can offer is that their punters are mugs with rich chiropractors, and because they are not pushed, the manufacturers just don't try hard enough. An XK steering wheel is bogging, while a Porsche one is beautifully tactile. Why? It's obvious what's wrong so why don't they fix it?

But in respect of seating and controls a 997 is every bit as good as a 991. And the view out from the driver's seat feels like a 911, and it drives like a 911. The 991, basically, doesn't do either of these. It may be fast but I also reckon they have tuned it to do the Nurburgring, quite possibly on special tyres, and piloted by an ace, to give the impression that the car is harder edged than it is. It feels no harder edged than a top end BMW 6-Series. A Lotus Evora leaves it for stone dead.

As to heel and toeing, you must have Elvis on the stereo, because just about every Porsche produced these days has PDK.

While we are on the topic, it has got a pair of Xenon lights tucked under a standard issue 997 style headlight cover. What is the purpose of that? OK, I thought that the 997 was a step backwards from the 996 - from a genuinely brilliant piece of modern design towards self parody. The 991 I just don't get at all. It's like a different car shoved uncomfortably into a 911's skin, a near incompetent piece of car design. Nice sunroof though.

Edited by cardigankid on Saturday 28th April 15:22

cmoose

18,656 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
Jaguar XK seats were useless until they came up with the latest sports seats option
Happened to be driving XKRs and XKR-Ss yesterday. Seats were OK, but seating position too high. I'm only 5'10 with the wind behind me and two pairs of socks on and I was too high - if you're tall it must be fairly rubbish. You can actually get lower in the XF.

J-P

2,488 posts

75 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
cmoose said:
Mutt said:
I think you're under-selling how difficult other manufacturers find this and how subtle it can be. One example is pedal layout. OK, this is perhaps less of an issue in Tiptronic or PDK cars, but I just love the way you can jump in to a 986, 996, 987 or 997 (and I assume, 991 and hopefully 981) and heal-and-toe off the bat. I've not experienced this in any other car I've driven, even other performance cars with floor-hinged accelerators such as BMWs.
Hmmmm, my E36 BMWs were just as heel ans toeable out of the box as my 986. I find most BMWs are pretty good in this regard.
+1 H&T hasn't been an issue in BMW's I own/ed.

Lordglenmorangie

2,556 posts

74 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
It will be interesting to hear what you think.

My experience is limited to a couple of hours test drive, and my issues are as follows:-

1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.

2. Seating / View Out

This is where the 991 feels like a MUCH bigger car. The view is totally different from any previous 911. It feels almost front engined, as if the bonnet rises in front of you then falls away. The 'signature' front wings, which were always so good for 'aiming' a 911, are reduced to crease lines at the outer edges. The nose feels a long way away. It was positively refreshing to step back into a 997.

3. Driving

Yes it is fast, even in basic Carrera form, it is smooth, it is a very refined GT. I never noticed any problems with the steering, I never noticed anything about the steering at all. It seemed to me that it is a very good car, but other than in basic outline, and even that is so big now that it blends with other cars on the road, it isn't really a 911 at all. It is a Panamera Coupe.
The best description I have ever seen (it is a Panamera Coup) I am afraid it's what Joe public wants especial over the pond wink

cmoose

18,656 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
Lordglenmorangie said:
The best description I have ever seen (it is a Panamera Coup) I am afraid it's what Joe public wants especial over the pond wink
Doubt that reflects the truth. Yanks actually take a higher proportion of manual 911s than Euro customers. In this part of the market, I'd say the US customer base has a higher proportion of old school enthusiasts than Europe. Suspect the only reason Porsche bothered with a manual 991 was because of US customers. Vast, vast majority in Europe buy PDK.

Lordglenmorangie

2,556 posts

74 months

[news] 
Saturday 28th April 2012 quote quote all
cmoose said:
Doubt that reflects the truth. Yanks actually take a higher proportion of manual 911s than Euro customers. In this part of the market, I'd say the US customer base has a higher proportion of old school enthusiasts than Europe. Suspect the only reason Porsche bothered with a manual 991 was because of US customers. Vast, vast majority in Europe buy PDK.
I was talking about the pond in our village biggrin

RDMcG

Original Poster:

7,052 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
VERY early impressions after a few miles:
It certainly feels big, and really refined. The whole "shut off at the stop" is vaguely Prius however, took it into some very,very twisty back roads. The flatness of the cornering feels almost clinical to me. Its the cornering that impresses though steering feel not so good. The good news is that I have a long trip (600 miles) with some twisties on it next week.
However, first sense is that it feels amszingly stiff. Much more appealing to the majority of buyers than the madness of the GT3RS that I favour.
I want to give it a really good long trip. Monday coming soon. I have a feeling that many will like it. As a non-God of driving I can see the broader appeal,with fewer of the historical compromises of the 911 ......

kingstondc5

1,293 posts

73 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
RDMcG said:
Its the cornering that impresses though steering feel not so good.
Do you think that coming from a GT3, the electric steering is not something your used to, hence why your initial impressions are that its not so good or do you think that by the end of the 10 days, your opinion/perception would have changed some what, regarding the electric steering?



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