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dabofoppo

Original Poster:

530 posts

57 months

[news] 
Tuesday 1st May 2012 quote quote all
If I ask for a police officers badge number do they have to give me it? Are their any exceptions when they can/cannot provide it?

Cheers.

Dave Hedgehog

7,311 posts

90 months

[news] 
Tuesday 1st May 2012 quote quote all
i believe they do, and i think there not allowed to cover them up if in uniform either

kaf

323 posts

33 months

[news] 
Tuesday 1st May 2012 quote quote all
If in uniform they should be clearly visible. If not in uniform they should provide it when asked.

Nigel Worc's

7,004 posts

74 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
Collar number ? (used to be displayed on the uniform collar in days gone by, then the shoulders, now sometimes replaced with the officers name).

On our "best uniform" (was called number ones in the RAF, can't remember what it was called in the Police), in west mercia, we used to have a single badge worn on the breast area of the jacket.

I never had a "badge", only a warrant card, yanks have badges I think.

Anyway, if asked, of course you had to give it, if for some reason they couldn't note it from your uniform.

Derek Smith

20,597 posts

134 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
There is no legal requirement to identify oneself as a police officer. However, as officer not in uniform who refuses to identify themselves might well find it difficult to prove obstruction, failing to conform to the indication of a police officer or even prove assult on police if the person resists arrest.

There is no requirement to display a warrant number or personal identification number.

Many forces have force policy that requires an officer in uniform to carry idenification numbers at all times and for one in plain clothes to identify themselves as police officers by showing their warrant cards on equiries.

Exceptions are offten made for those on observations.

The is no common warrant card. Some police forces have a badge, others cards. I once went into a casino for a licensing visit with three other police officers, all of us in plain clothes. There was me, Smith, a super, Green, a Jones from a Welsh force and a Brown from somewhere in the Midlands, Bedfordshire I seen to remember. The girl on the desk refused us entry. No action was taken against her, other than on an internal discipline level, as there were four different styles of warrant cards. Her reaction was felt, by our super, to be understandable.
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daz3210

5,000 posts

126 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
Someone told me (it may not be true) that as officers rise through the ranks, the collar/badge number tends to fall by the wayside.

So a higher officer may not have a number to give.

timf

344 posts

130 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
what about these officers involved in the Tottenham court Rd siege last week not a number in view ?


kaf

323 posts

33 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
daz3210 said:
Someone told me (it may not be true) that as officers rise through the ranks, the collar/badge number tends to fall by the wayside.

So a higher officer may not have a number to give.
Not true, it may not be displayed, but they keep the same number as when they joined.

PintOfKittens

1,336 posts

76 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
kaf said:
daz3210 said:
Someone told me (it may not be true) that as officers rise through the ranks, the collar/badge number tends to fall by the wayside.

So a higher officer may not have a number to give.
Not true, it may not be displayed, but they keep the same number as when they joined.
I'm not plod, but I'm not too sure about that - there's a difference between warrant card number and collar number - I know for a fact that in the met, in some stations, sgt's collar numbers are 2 digits - and if the officer changes police station, then their collar numbers will change too...

covboy

1,733 posts

60 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
Goes back to the old chestnut – How many MOP would recognise a genuine warrant card from a “made up lookylike”

Snowboy

8,027 posts

37 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
timf said:
what about these officers involved in the Tottenham court Rd siege last week not a number in view ?
And they have their faces covered.
I think it’s fair to say that they are sometimes legitimate reasons for police to be anonymous to the public.
Each of them know who they are – we don’t need to know.

I can’t help but think that if the situation is such that a MOP is requesting/demanding acops ID number than that MOP is being a cock.

It’s unlikely they would need to demand the number of they wanted to send a nice letter of commendation.


daz3210

5,000 posts

126 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
kaf said:
daz3210 said:
Someone told me (it may not be true) that as officers rise through the ranks, the collar/badge number tends to fall by the wayside.

So a higher officer may not have a number to give.
Not true, it may not be displayed, but they keep the same number as when they joined.
It was actually one of the local Inspectors that told me. Maybe he was strictly incorrect, but he did say they did not tend tohave a number as reference at his rank.

I guess asking for Inspector xxx is less likely to have two to choose from than PC xxx.

daz3210

5,000 posts

126 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
Snowboy said:
I can’t help but think that if the situation is such that a MOP is requesting/demanding acops ID number than that MOP is being a cock.

It’s unlikely they would need to demand the number of they wanted to send a nice letter of commendation.
If you are wanting to send a genuine complaint, then requesting an ID number is not being a cock is it? Unless the officer is on a recognised 'shout' it may be difficult to easily ID the officer.

As for giving compliment. On a genuine shout I have proven in the last few days that without any details at all, the Police WILL identify which officers are involved.

oldsoak

5,618 posts

88 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
PintOfKittens said:
I'm not plod, but I'm not too sure about that - there's a difference between warrant card number and collar number - I know for a fact that in the met, in some stations, sgt's collar numbers are 2 digits - and if the officer changes police station, then their collar numbers will change too...
Wikipedia (in this instance) is your friend...(I've emboldened the relevant bit in the passage below...)

Wiki said:
Metropolitan Police Service

A number, followed by one or two letters indicating the station/sector, borough, or unit. Current practice favours use of borough codes rather than station codes (with the borough code generally taken from one of the borough's stations - see below - which can cause confusion).

Divisional area codes are still used to identify the areas themselves, together with the police station and vehicles (if any) nominally covering them, but not officers. So for example QY88 would be a panda car notionally assigned to Kingsbury, though it would actually be based at QD (i.e. Wembley, the nearest operational police station) and be crewed by officers whose collar numbers all contain the letters 'QK' (since they are counted as Brent officers regardless of which station they may happen to be based at).

A one or two digit number denotes a Sergeant, a three digit number denotes a Constable, a four digit number beginning with 5 denotes a Special Constable, unless they're attached to a 'Safer Transport' team, in which case the number will begin with an 8 and a four digit number beginning with 7 denotes a PCSO. Confusingly, MPS epaulettes display the letters over the digits, i.e. 81FH (a Sergeant based at Hammersmith) would show FH over 81 on his/her shoulder, which reads more like FH81 (the call sign of a panda car based there). Ranks above Sergeant do not have collar numbers - officers are identified by name (e.g. Inspector Smith, who may once have been just PC 123KG).

An exception to the above is the City of Westminster borough. Westminster has over 1500 officers therefore a three digit number system is too small. Until late 2009 constables and sergeants had four digit shoulder numbers beginning 1, 2, 3 or 4 (with the leading number signifying which part of the borough you were attached to - 1 Westminster North, 2 Westminster Central, 3 Westminster South or 4 Westminster HQ). With the amalgamation of Westminster Central and South in late 2009 the decision was taken to amalgamate all the shoulder numbers into one numbering system. All new officers joining the borough will be given the first available number and cross division moves will no longer result in the need for a new shoulder number.

Specialist MPS units do not necessarily follow any of the above numbering rules, with both Constables and Sergeants having anything from one to four digits.

All Metropolitan Police officers in uniform below the rank of Inspector are required to have their collar numbers on display at all times.[1] It is increasingly common for higher ranks to display their warrant numbers on their epaulettes in addition to their rank.

PintOfKittens

1,336 posts

76 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
oldsoak said:
PintOfKittens said:
I'm not plod, but I'm not too sure about that - there's a difference between warrant card number and collar number - I know for a fact that in the met, in some stations, sgt's collar numbers are 2 digits - and if the officer changes police station, then their collar numbers will change too...
Wikipedia (in this instance) is your friend...(I've emboldened the relevant bit in the passage below...)

Wiki said:
Metropolitan Police Service

A number, followed by one or two letters indicating the station/sector, borough, or unit. Current practice favours use of borough codes rather than station codes (with the borough code generally taken from one of the borough's stations - see below - which can cause confusion).

Divisional area codes are still used to identify the areas themselves, together with the police station and vehicles (if any) nominally covering them, but not officers. So for example QY88 would be a panda car notionally assigned to Kingsbury, though it would actually be based at QD (i.e. Wembley, the nearest operational police station) and be crewed by officers whose collar numbers all contain the letters 'QK' (since they are counted as Brent officers regardless of which station they may happen to be based at).

A one or two digit number denotes a Sergeant, a three digit number denotes a Constable, a four digit number beginning with 5 denotes a Special Constable, unless they're attached to a 'Safer Transport' team, in which case the number will begin with an 8 and a four digit number beginning with 7 denotes a PCSO. Confusingly, MPS epaulettes display the letters over the digits, i.e. 81FH (a Sergeant based at Hammersmith) would show FH over 81 on his/her shoulder, which reads more like FH81 (the call sign of a panda car based there). Ranks above Sergeant do not have collar numbers - officers are identified by name (e.g. Inspector Smith, who may once have been just PC 123KG).

An exception to the above is the City of Westminster borough. Westminster has over 1500 officers therefore a three digit number system is too small. Until late 2009 constables and sergeants had four digit shoulder numbers beginning 1, 2, 3 or 4 (with the leading number signifying which part of the borough you were attached to - 1 Westminster North, 2 Westminster Central, 3 Westminster South or 4 Westminster HQ). With the amalgamation of Westminster Central and South in late 2009 the decision was taken to amalgamate all the shoulder numbers into one numbering system. All new officers joining the borough will be given the first available number and cross division moves will no longer result in the need for a new shoulder number.

Specialist MPS units do not necessarily follow any of the above numbering rules, with both Constables and Sergeants having anything from one to four digits.

All Metropolitan Police officers in uniform below the rank of Inspector are required to have their collar numbers on display at all times.[1] It is increasingly common for higher ranks to display their warrant numbers on their epaulettes in addition to their rank.
Yes, but if a police officer moves from the MET to Manchester, their shoulder number will change...

daz3210

5,000 posts

126 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
So basically, the warrant number will always be there, but the collar number may be different, if the officer is assigned one?


oldsoak

5,618 posts

88 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
PintOfKittens said:
Yes, but if a police officer moves from the MET to Manchester, their shoulder number will change...
Congratulations ...I fell for that one....


aw51 121565

4,034 posts

119 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
covboy said:
Goes back to the old chestnut – How many MOP would recognise a genuine warrant card from a “made up lookylike”
I worked as a GP Receptionist for a couple of years, and a patient was taken to A&E one evening with certain symptoms that inevitably led to his death a week later in ICU (hypoxic brain damage after an apparent overdose of an opiate).

Because of a few different factors, the patient's death was treated as suspicious and investigated by the police - who needed to see his medical records as part of their investigation.

The practice manager at the Surgery arranged this with the police - I was told that a PC xxx from CID would call in one day to collect the records.

And PC xxx called the next day, in a suit; he introduced himself and said what he was there for in quite some detail. Excellent, no problem - but his warrant card did indeed look like a "made up lookylike" hehe . I gave him the medical records (and we got them back a week later) smile .



Derek Smith

20,597 posts

134 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
It varies from force to force. In the City of London I was given a divsional number which was displayed on shoulders. It was B with three digits, B denoting the division, Snow Hill, and the 3 digits that I was a PC. This was also my call sign. When I was promoted I moved stations and another PC took over my number.

At my new division, C, Bishops gate, I was given a two digit number prefixed by C. The two digit number showed I was a sergeant. The previous holder has been found guilty of burglary. One of the previous holders, a chap called Tucker, had been shot and killed whislt dealing with a burglary in Houndsditch. This led to the seige of Sydney street. I decided to avoid all buildings.

Inspectors did not have collar numbers, just two bath stars denoting rank. Many inspectors refused to give their name or warrant number, just saying that they could be identified by their title of duty inspector. I never had the conceit to do that.

When I transfered my collar number was part of my 'pay' number or in reality warrant number. It was carried on the shoulder. The single letter was my surname initial. Inspectors did not have nubmers. Call signs were post specific and not individual.

So it varies.

PintOfKittens

1,336 posts

76 months

[news] 
Wednesday 2nd May 2012 quote quote all
Derek Smith said:
Interesting stuff
Did your warrant card number change at all?
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