15,000 Eletric Car Miles
Discussion
I have just completed the first year of EV ownership. We bought our Nissan Leaf in April 2011 and we’ve been running it as our main car since then. I didn’t expect to put so many miles on it, but it has become our default car for all the short and medium trips we do as our other cars have high running costs (X5 and M3). It is a much more pleasant drive than other “economy” cars and the running costs are ultra low.
The first question people ask me: why did I buy an EV? I admit to having some history here – my brother and I built an electric bicycle with a 12V car battery and aircraft engine starter motor when we were teenagers. I’ve always wondered if EVs would become viable and with Nissan actually taking the time and $ to properly engineer an EV and make it generally available, I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to see for myself if they have succeeded.
Range is the next question everybody asks. While it is rated at 100+ miles, that’s on the Euro driving cycle which is known to be optimistic for ICE cars. Same for EVs, sadly. Realistic range is 70 miles in good conditions: above 5 degrees, moderate driving. Worst I have experienced is around 50 miles with the heater on in sub zero temperatures. Rapid motorway driving also eats the range. I actually find myself driving it fast as there is no material fuel cost to doing so – might as well get there quicker. Only in extreme conditions do I slow down a bit or turn the heater off to preserve range. It takes a few months of driving to adapt to the range, but it’s not a problem if you don’t try to push it too far.
The third question: have you ever run out of charge? We’ve only run out of charge once – for some reason a street charging point in Brighton did not charge when my wife was using it (something to do with the cable not being properly plugged in I think - best not to ask questions
). She then tried to drive home based on 23 miles remaining, but the gauge was hopelessly optimistic as getting to Brighton is a downhill journey from home – and getting back is uphill. She ran out after 20 miles – about 1 mile from home. Nissan offer free recovery in the first year, but it is not quite as simple as getting a can of petrol from the nearest garage. When fast charging facilities are more widespread, then it will be a simple matter of stopping for 10 minutes to get another 20 miles of range. Nissan and Renault are installing many more fast chargers across the UK – they are high voltage DC units that bypass the internal voltage converter in the car. The street chargers you see are actually not very useful: they only supply 220V 10A which means you get around 6 miles per hour of charging – so unless you are parked up for several hours, they don’t help much. The technology is available to provide 220V 32A charging and when that becomes standard, you will get more like 20 miles of driving per 1 hour charge – a good half way option between a regular 10A outlet and specialised DC fast charging). Companies like Rolec that build outdoor caravan park and marina power points are doing EV stuff too and prices are coming down.
Good points:
- Ultra smooth, vibration free.
- Quiet, especially at low speeds.
- Excellent throttle response – absolutely no lag.
- No ICE foibles like cold starting and inconsistent diesel throttle response and torque curves.
- Car can be automatically pre-heated when being charged overnight.
- Good ride and reasonable handling.
- Space for 5 people.
- Nissan dealer service excellent (T. Wells).
- Great interior design and ambience.
- Very low running costs (none of the journey cost anxiety that I get in my V8 M3!). Servicing is annual and very cheap as there is no engine oil and filter to replace.
- Excellent build quality and reliability.
- Great built-in Sat Nav: touch screen, full postcode search.
- Bluetooth, reversing camera and iPod/USB standard.
- "Filling up" from home is much better than visiting petrol stations.
Bad points:
- Cold weather range (it drives well in minus temperatures, but range drops to around 50 miles).
- Misleading “miles left” gauge. Weirdly it is based on the last few miles of driving, so if you go down a hill it looks great – until you have to go back up the same hill! Thankfully there is a 12 bar battery level indicator on the dash which is reliable.
- The Leaf only supports 16A charging (it should be 32A). I can install a 32A outlet at home for less than £1,000, but the Leaf only gets half the benefit. I’m currently using a standard 10A outlet – fine for overnight, but not great for topping up during the day.
- Owning the battery. Probably not an issue as the average battery lifespan is likely to be much longer than the minimum quoted by Nissan and replacements will become much cheaper (less than half current cost), but leasing the battery would remove all doubt.
- Styling not exactly beautiful.
- UK EV charging network is not great where we live (East Sussex) – we charge at home more than 95% of the time.
- High initial cost and uncertainty about re-sale (I’m not that bothered as I plan to keep it long term or trade in on a newer EV – and the annual fuel savings on our mileage are significant which is a big off-set).
Minor niggles:
- Steering wheel has rake adjust only (a common Nissan failing).
- Plastic steering wheel - yuk!
- The 2 digital clocks on the dash are not synchronised and one runs fast.
- High driving position (the batteries are under-floor).
- Bulky charging cable with heavy brick-like box at one end.
If you want an EV, I’d consider the following:
- You need to be prepared to pay more for something that is better to drive (Vs a small diesel hatch).
- You need to have off street parking to charge at home.
- You need at least one other (ICE) car in the household.
- You need to do a lot of journeys of less than 50 miles: I’d say at least 10,000 miles per annum to make it worthwhile.
Warning, it will change your perceptions: an ICE car will never seem the same again.
Otherwise wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation of EVs with longer range, faster charging, lower prices and a better charging network across the UK.
In the near term the Renault Zoe looks very promising. It is better looking than the Leaf, has a more efficient heater, supports 32A charging and Renault have a rental battery scheme...which addresses most of my concerns. I’ll definitely be taking one for a test drive. Nissan will be upgrading the Leaf soon – I expect the heater and 220V charging amperage to be improved.
Nobody knows where the EV industry is heading, but I can say after a year of EV driving that this is close to being mainstream practical. The myths out there will only be discredited with wider adoption. Are pedestrians at risk? (No – I’ve never had a near miss and there is a subtle noise maker that operates at low speeds). Is charging up daily as hassle? (No, I got into the daily charging habit very quickly and it is less hassle and takes less time to plug in than a weekly trip to the petrol station). Are EVs gutless? (No, the Leaf is very snappy from the lights and has good passing acceleration). Are EVs unreliable? (Not in my experience and after 15,000 miles it is showing no signs of mechanical wear – I expect this car to last a long time, given the lack of under bonnet heat and internal friction)
With zero tailpipe emissions in cities becoming a hot topic there will be a lot more plug-in hybrids. With today’s technology, assuming you own 2 cars, I’d rather have a pure EV for local journeys (simpler and less compromised) and a pure ICE for longer trips.
Thanks for reading – hopefully this was something different from the usual reviews. Now, I must brace myself for the onslaught of PH Trolls
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/S5QHMnwy.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/EUnHRmIn" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/EUnHRmIn.jpg)
The first question people ask me: why did I buy an EV? I admit to having some history here – my brother and I built an electric bicycle with a 12V car battery and aircraft engine starter motor when we were teenagers. I’ve always wondered if EVs would become viable and with Nissan actually taking the time and $ to properly engineer an EV and make it generally available, I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to see for myself if they have succeeded.
Range is the next question everybody asks. While it is rated at 100+ miles, that’s on the Euro driving cycle which is known to be optimistic for ICE cars. Same for EVs, sadly. Realistic range is 70 miles in good conditions: above 5 degrees, moderate driving. Worst I have experienced is around 50 miles with the heater on in sub zero temperatures. Rapid motorway driving also eats the range. I actually find myself driving it fast as there is no material fuel cost to doing so – might as well get there quicker. Only in extreme conditions do I slow down a bit or turn the heater off to preserve range. It takes a few months of driving to adapt to the range, but it’s not a problem if you don’t try to push it too far.
The third question: have you ever run out of charge? We’ve only run out of charge once – for some reason a street charging point in Brighton did not charge when my wife was using it (something to do with the cable not being properly plugged in I think - best not to ask questions
). She then tried to drive home based on 23 miles remaining, but the gauge was hopelessly optimistic as getting to Brighton is a downhill journey from home – and getting back is uphill. She ran out after 20 miles – about 1 mile from home. Nissan offer free recovery in the first year, but it is not quite as simple as getting a can of petrol from the nearest garage. When fast charging facilities are more widespread, then it will be a simple matter of stopping for 10 minutes to get another 20 miles of range. Nissan and Renault are installing many more fast chargers across the UK – they are high voltage DC units that bypass the internal voltage converter in the car. The street chargers you see are actually not very useful: they only supply 220V 10A which means you get around 6 miles per hour of charging – so unless you are parked up for several hours, they don’t help much. The technology is available to provide 220V 32A charging and when that becomes standard, you will get more like 20 miles of driving per 1 hour charge – a good half way option between a regular 10A outlet and specialised DC fast charging). Companies like Rolec that build outdoor caravan park and marina power points are doing EV stuff too and prices are coming down.Good points:
- Ultra smooth, vibration free.
- Quiet, especially at low speeds.
- Excellent throttle response – absolutely no lag.
- No ICE foibles like cold starting and inconsistent diesel throttle response and torque curves.
- Car can be automatically pre-heated when being charged overnight.
- Good ride and reasonable handling.
- Space for 5 people.
- Nissan dealer service excellent (T. Wells).
- Great interior design and ambience.
- Very low running costs (none of the journey cost anxiety that I get in my V8 M3!). Servicing is annual and very cheap as there is no engine oil and filter to replace.
- Excellent build quality and reliability.
- Great built-in Sat Nav: touch screen, full postcode search.
- Bluetooth, reversing camera and iPod/USB standard.
- "Filling up" from home is much better than visiting petrol stations.
Bad points:
- Cold weather range (it drives well in minus temperatures, but range drops to around 50 miles).
- Misleading “miles left” gauge. Weirdly it is based on the last few miles of driving, so if you go down a hill it looks great – until you have to go back up the same hill! Thankfully there is a 12 bar battery level indicator on the dash which is reliable.
- The Leaf only supports 16A charging (it should be 32A). I can install a 32A outlet at home for less than £1,000, but the Leaf only gets half the benefit. I’m currently using a standard 10A outlet – fine for overnight, but not great for topping up during the day.
- Owning the battery. Probably not an issue as the average battery lifespan is likely to be much longer than the minimum quoted by Nissan and replacements will become much cheaper (less than half current cost), but leasing the battery would remove all doubt.
- Styling not exactly beautiful.
- UK EV charging network is not great where we live (East Sussex) – we charge at home more than 95% of the time.
- High initial cost and uncertainty about re-sale (I’m not that bothered as I plan to keep it long term or trade in on a newer EV – and the annual fuel savings on our mileage are significant which is a big off-set).
Minor niggles:
- Steering wheel has rake adjust only (a common Nissan failing).
- Plastic steering wheel - yuk!
- The 2 digital clocks on the dash are not synchronised and one runs fast.
- High driving position (the batteries are under-floor).
- Bulky charging cable with heavy brick-like box at one end.
If you want an EV, I’d consider the following:
- You need to be prepared to pay more for something that is better to drive (Vs a small diesel hatch).
- You need to have off street parking to charge at home.
- You need at least one other (ICE) car in the household.
- You need to do a lot of journeys of less than 50 miles: I’d say at least 10,000 miles per annum to make it worthwhile.
Warning, it will change your perceptions: an ICE car will never seem the same again.
Otherwise wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation of EVs with longer range, faster charging, lower prices and a better charging network across the UK.
In the near term the Renault Zoe looks very promising. It is better looking than the Leaf, has a more efficient heater, supports 32A charging and Renault have a rental battery scheme...which addresses most of my concerns. I’ll definitely be taking one for a test drive. Nissan will be upgrading the Leaf soon – I expect the heater and 220V charging amperage to be improved.
Nobody knows where the EV industry is heading, but I can say after a year of EV driving that this is close to being mainstream practical. The myths out there will only be discredited with wider adoption. Are pedestrians at risk? (No – I’ve never had a near miss and there is a subtle noise maker that operates at low speeds). Is charging up daily as hassle? (No, I got into the daily charging habit very quickly and it is less hassle and takes less time to plug in than a weekly trip to the petrol station). Are EVs gutless? (No, the Leaf is very snappy from the lights and has good passing acceleration). Are EVs unreliable? (Not in my experience and after 15,000 miles it is showing no signs of mechanical wear – I expect this car to last a long time, given the lack of under bonnet heat and internal friction)
With zero tailpipe emissions in cities becoming a hot topic there will be a lot more plug-in hybrids. With today’s technology, assuming you own 2 cars, I’d rather have a pure EV for local journeys (simpler and less compromised) and a pure ICE for longer trips.
Thanks for reading – hopefully this was something different from the usual reviews. Now, I must brace myself for the onslaught of PH Trolls
Edited by c2mike on Sunday 6th May 12:36
Edited by c2mike on Sunday 6th May 12:39
Edited by c2mike on Sunday 6th May 12:43
Edited by c2mike on Sunday 6th May 13:54
Edited by c2mike on Sunday 6th May 14:19
Edited by c2mike on Sunday 6th May 15:50
Excellent write up. Have you done any calculations in terms of cost - how many years would it take to pay off the price premium commanded by the Leaf? Granted you will have to make a lot of assumptions to reach a figure but even a ball park would be better than nothing at this stage.
NISaxoVTR said:
Interesting to hear a real world review. How does heavy traffic affect the range? I guess a common fear would be coming across an unexpected tail back and running out of juice.
With the heater off, the crawling range is huge. Power drain at 0mph is basically zero and there is very little drain at low speeds. Kind of opposite to an ICE car which runs more efficiently at higher speeds..blue said:
Excellent write up. Have you done any calculations in terms of cost - how many years would it take to pay off the price premium commanded by the Leaf? Granted you will have to make a lot of assumptions to reach a figure but even a ball park would be better than nothing at this stage.
After the £5k Govt subsidy the car costs a bit more than the equivalent Golf diesel - a 140hp 2.0 (the Leaf is auto, with sat nav, bluetooth, rear camera, ipod/USB, keyless entry, etc.).Running cost saves (diesel Vs electricity) are are a bit under £1,500 per annum for 15,000 miles (assuming 45mpg real world diesel economy - remember it is all short / medium runs).
So as always in the medium term depreciation is the main factor and that's a big unknown for EVs. Eventually all everyday cars are worth virtually nothing, so on that basis at least £1k per annum average savings. Battery replacement is also an unknown (may not even be required for 8+ years), but diesel repairs are also expensive (injection pumps, dmf, dpf, etc.) and getting worse with Euro6. EV batteries are getting cheaper (Chinese production), so maybe EVs will actually be cheaper overall for repairs and maintenance.
I didn't buy it to save money, but equally i didn't want to burn £ on a toy.
Nice write up. I'd be interested in an EV but would probably wait until the next generation of cars comes about, I only do around 40-50 miles per week so it'd be ideal, if only they could get the initial purchase price down, which I'm sure they will do after a few years. My local shopping centre has charging points but I'd worry about t
ts pulling the cable out, it'd be better if the fuel cap locked over the plug and had a cutout for the cable to come out.
ts pulling the cable out, it'd be better if the fuel cap locked over the plug and had a cutout for the cable to come out.
PumpkinSteve said:
Nice write up. I'd be interested in an EV but would probably wait until the next generation of cars comes about, I only do around 40-50 miles per week so it'd be ideal, if only they could get the initial purchase price down, which I'm sure they will do after a few years. My local shopping centre has charging points but I'd worry about tts pulling the cable out, it'd be better if the fuel cap locked over the plug and had a cutout for the cable to come out.
I agree re low annual mileage. That's the current EV dilemma - you need high miles to make them worthwhile, but you can't do long trips in them. My usage profile fits really well, but I'm propbably not typical. Future, cheaper EVs and a better UK charging network will massively broaden the potential customer base.ts pulling the cable out, it'd be better if the fuel cap locked over the plug and had a cutout for the cable to come out.Re locking the cable: usually public charging points have a cable lock (they are accessed via a card or fob and once connected you snap it shut over your plug which prevents anybody else removing your cable). I did read about somebody whose cable was stuck to the charging point because it would not unlock!
There is a lock you can add to your car as a Nissan accessory, but it looked clunky to me. What is worrying to me is that the cable is expensive (100s of £ apparently) and has a "brick" box at one end which means it is not your grandpa's extension lead. It is also bulky to handle...I will add it to the minor niggles section.
.blue said:
c2mike said:
I didn't buy it to save money, but equally i didn't want to burn £ on a toy.
Interesting. If not for money saving, what was your motivation to buy one?thinfourth2 said:
Did you have to panic stop somewhere to get the exactly 15,000 miles
Oh and you missed out the biggest advantage
You don't have to go to petrol stations
I admit to getting the last 10 miles covered doing high speed runs on the local by-pass...much more quietly than the super-bikes. It's now well on the way to 16,000 miles.Oh and you missed out the biggest advantage
You don't have to go to petrol stations
I get my petrol station fix from my M3. Still running in, but 18mpg to date!
.blue said:
c2mike said:
I didn't buy it to save money, but equally i didn't want to burn £ on a toy.
Interesting. If not for money saving, what was your motivation to buy one?I'll admit i would utterly love an EV as a daily driver
I'll be having a damn good look at the Zoe once it gets on the market.
The idea of no petrol stations and almost zero noise hugely tempts me. As the two main bug bears abut the current daily driver is the noise and it needs refilling once a week.
Most modern cars are utterly tedious and seem hugely compromised in trying to be everything to all men. i love car that have focus on one task. Hence i owned a caterham 7 and a landrover 90 both of which did exactly what it said on the tin.
I'll be having a damn good look at the Zoe once it gets on the market.
The idea of no petrol stations and almost zero noise hugely tempts me. As the two main bug bears abut the current daily driver is the noise and it needs refilling once a week.
Most modern cars are utterly tedious and seem hugely compromised in trying to be everything to all men. i love car that have focus on one task. Hence i owned a caterham 7 and a landrover 90 both of which did exactly what it said on the tin.
Otispunkmeyer said:
.blue said:
c2mike said:
I didn't buy it to save money, but equally i didn't want to burn £ on a toy.
Interesting. If not for money saving, what was your motivation to buy one?
Interesting write-up to read, and as you say, it would appear your usage profile fits an EV perfectly. I can see them being an interesting area as battery technology gets better over the coming years.
With regards to the 32A socket, assuming it is just a standard ceeform, you should be able to get one installed for <£200, let alone £1000!! Would there also be a benefit to having a 16A socket for charging? Any normal electrician should be able to take care of it.
Have you ever worked out how much it costs per mile, with recharging costs?
With regards to the 32A socket, assuming it is just a standard ceeform, you should be able to get one installed for <£200, let alone £1000!! Would there also be a benefit to having a 16A socket for charging? Any normal electrician should be able to take care of it.
Have you ever worked out how much it costs per mile, with recharging costs?
abbotsmike said:
Interesting write-up to read, and as you say, it would appear your usage profile fits an EV perfectly. I can see them being an interesting area as battery technology gets better over the coming years.
With regards to the 32A socket, assuming it is just a standard ceeform, you should be able to get one installed for <£200, let alone £1000!! Would there also be a benefit to having a 16A socket for charging? Any normal electrician should be able to take care of it.
Have you ever worked out how much it costs per mile, with recharging costs?
I have 32A wiring in my garage (which was cheap to install BTW), but you need more than that. The Leaf requires a special, expensive cable with a smart "box", or it requires an equivalent level of intelligence in the wall charger (mode 3 communication). These wall units cost several hundred £ (including a 5m cable). Unfortunately the internal transformer in the Leaf is only rated at 16A, so even with a 32A will unit I am only going to get 16A charging. That's better than the 10A capability with the standard 5m Leaf cable (which plugs into a std indoor 220V outlet), but it is not a dramatic improvement. I will install a 32A wall charger (virtually the same price as a 16A unit, but future-proofed), but it is not a high priority. Tempted to wait until the prices drop further.With regards to the 32A socket, assuming it is just a standard ceeform, you should be able to get one installed for <£200, let alone £1000!! Would there also be a benefit to having a 16A socket for charging? Any normal electrician should be able to take care of it.
Have you ever worked out how much it costs per mile, with recharging costs?
Nice review and interesting read, thanks.
Sounds like it will be good as a town car.
I really do hope they continue to produce nice 6 and 8 cylinder petrol cars in 20 years time.
I can see the use of an electric car but hopefully I will always have a nice screaming petrol in my garage for weekends at least.
What worries me though is if these cars are using just electric, the government are receiving less tax and duty and VAT in fuel, does this mean fuel will keep going up in the UK with the introduction of more electric cars and even more efficient cars using less fuel?
Sounds like it will be good as a town car.
I really do hope they continue to produce nice 6 and 8 cylinder petrol cars in 20 years time.
I can see the use of an electric car but hopefully I will always have a nice screaming petrol in my garage for weekends at least.
What worries me though is if these cars are using just electric, the government are receiving less tax and duty and VAT in fuel, does this mean fuel will keep going up in the UK with the introduction of more electric cars and even more efficient cars using less fuel?
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