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Ecosseven
Original Poster
1,021 posts
87 months
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There has been a lot of discussion about the low weight of the GT86 / BRZ. I had a quick look at the manufacturers figures of similar coupes and was surprised at how close it was, although this assumes that Toyota are quoting the weight without driver and/or luggage.
GT86 - 1240kg
Audi TT (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1280kg. This does not include an allowance for a driver or luggage.
VW Scirocco (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1298kg. Again this does not include an allowance for a driver of luggage although it does include a 90% full fuel tank.
I also thought it interesting that the GT86 and Scirocco are about the same length (around 4250mm) and the TT is actually slightly shorter.
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HustleRussell
4,214 posts
30 months
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That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins.
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cheddar
1,997 posts
44 months
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HustleRussell said: That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins. Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed. All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT. And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86.
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otolith
19,757 posts
74 months
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It is a bit lighter, but most of the benefit over a hatchback derived Golf-in-a-frock kind of car is that it has a low centre of gravity and isn't nose heavy.
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Ecosseven
Original Poster
1,021 posts
87 months
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cheddar said: HustleRussell said: That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins. Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed. All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT. And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86. It's difficult to get an exact comparison as Toyota quote the kerb weight as 1240kg but don't say whether or not this includes fuel, a driver or luggage. Audi quote 1280kg and specifically state that this excludes a driver and luggage but not whether or not the weight includes fuel. Only VW are completely clear on what their kerb weight figure includes. VW quote 1373kg's but this includes a 90% full fuel tank AND 68kg for a driver AND 7kg for luggage ( =1298kg if you subtract the weight allowance for a driver and luggage) Assuming my assumptions are correct then I was surprised at how close the respective kerb weights are bearing in mind the hype about the GT86's lightweight construction.
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EDLT
14,592 posts
76 months
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40kg is bugger all in the grand scheme of things. PH loves BMWs even though the 1-series is relatively lardy.
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Ecosseven
Original Poster
1,021 posts
87 months
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otolith said: It is a bit lighter, but most of the benefit over a hatchback derived Golf-in-a-frock kind of car is that it has a low centre of gravity and isn't nose heavy. . Agreed. I have no doubt that the GT86 will be the better drivers car and I applaud Toyota and Subaru for bringing it to the market. Only time will tell whether or not it will be a sales success. For a driver of my average ability and for the type of driving I do I would probably take a Scirocco over a GT86.
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HustleRussell
4,214 posts
30 months
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cheddar said: HustleRussell said: That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins. Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed. All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT. And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86. Rear drive will always be heavier. A 40kg advantage over your competitor in class is an achievement even if the cars have the same layout. Achieving the same advantage with a RWD car against a FWD car is nothing short of impressive. Also, all this is before you consider the comparative axle weights front and rear between the FWD and RWD car. I've no doubt about which will be the better driver's car.
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HustleRussell
4,214 posts
30 months
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Also 40kg is a big deal in car design and shouldn't be dismissed as a small margin.
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otolith
19,757 posts
74 months
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It depends what you like in a car. You won't realise a performance advantage on the road, but if you are fussy about how a car feels, it may be worth it to you. Evo preferred a hot hatch to the Subaru version, but then they also always preferred the 350Z to the RX-8, and having owned both I prefered the Mazda for the same advantages the Toyota/Subaru has. So for those who care, it is important, and for those who don't it isn't.
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hornetrider
41,161 posts
75 months
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Ecosseven said: For a driver of my average ability and for the type of driving I do I would probably take a Scirocco over a GT86. I actually pity you. Picking a FWD hatch over a Sports car. Ah well, each to their own.
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Zed Ed
688 posts
53 months
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More importantly, what about the brz wait  Where is mine? Not in time for Le Mans at this rate.
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xRIEx
1,519 posts
18 months
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Ecosseven said: VW quote ... 68kg for a driver... Which proves the TT is a girl's car.
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JonathanLegard
5,125 posts
107 months
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Ecosseven said: It's difficult to get an exact comparison as Toyota quote the kerb weight as 1240kg but don't say whether or not this includes fuel, a driver or luggage. Audi quote 1280kg and specifically state that this excludes a driver and luggage but not whether or not the weight includes fuel. Only VW are completely clear on what their kerb weight figure includes. VW quote 1373kg's but this includes a 90% full fuel tank AND 68kg for a driver AND 7kg for luggage ( =1298kg if you subtract the weight allowance for a driver and luggage)
Assuming my assumptions are correct then I was surprised at how close the respective kerb weights are bearing in mind the hype about the GT86's lightweight construction. Luggage? What sort of luggage? Polystyrene blocks or lead ingots?
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s m
8,264 posts
73 months
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I'm going to wait for the full Autocar test to see what they weigh the car(s) at - that should be comparable with the weights obtained in the same way for the TT etc
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kambites
33,160 posts
91 months
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s m said: I'm going to wait for the full Autocar test to see what they weigh the car(s) at - that should be comparable with the weights obtained in the same way for the TT etc  Although if Toyota's figures were making it look bad compared to its rivals because they were measured differently, you'd have thought Toyota would have said something by now.
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MarkRSi
3,364 posts
88 months
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Ecosseven said: Audi TT (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1280kg. This does not include an allowance for a driver or luggage.
VW Scirocco (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1298kg. Again this does not include an allowance for a driver of luggage although it does include a 90% full fuel tank. Seriously? I was expecting these to be 1400+kg - wasn't the Megane 265 (also a 2.0l turbo and coupe-ish) also around this weight (1398kg?) and everyone was banging on how "lightweight" it was?  (or was that compared to the 1500kg Focus RS?)
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s m
8,264 posts
73 months
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cheddar said: HustleRussell said: That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins. Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed. All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT. And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86. The 2.0 TSi GT Scirocco that Autocar tested 10/09/08 had a kerb weight of 1390 kg. The 2.0 TSi R they tested 24/02/10 had a kerb weight of 1400kg. Seems a fair bit heavier to me unless they had dodgy scales?
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EDLT
14,592 posts
76 months
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MarkRSi said: Ecosseven said: Audi TT (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1280kg. This does not include an allowance for a driver or luggage.
VW Scirocco (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1298kg. Again this does not include an allowance for a driver of luggage although it does include a 90% full fuel tank. Seriously? I was expecting these to be 1400+kg - wasn't the Megane 265 (also a 2.0l turbo and coupe-ish) also around this weight (1398kg?) and everyone was banging on how "lightweight" it was? (or was that compared to the 1500kg Focus RS?) It is because it is all exaggerated. My Peugeot 306 was 1200kg and that was without the posh interior, climate control, crash structures, turbo, a wing that pops up at the push of a button and everything else the TT has.
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Dr G
9,387 posts
112 months
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Autocar weigh with fuel and a driver don't they?
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