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Ecosseven

Original Poster:

1,202 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
There has been a lot of discussion about the low weight of the GT86 / BRZ. I had a quick look at the manufacturers figures of similar coupes and was surprised at how close it was, although this assumes that Toyota are quoting the weight without driver and/or luggage.

GT86 - 1240kg
Audi TT (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1280kg. This does not include an allowance for a driver or luggage.
VW Scirocco (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1298kg. Again this does not include an allowance for a driver of luggage although it does include a 90% full fuel tank.

I also thought it interesting that the GT86 and Scirocco are about the same length (around 4250mm) and the TT is actually slightly shorter.






Edited by Ecosseven on Sunday 10th June 23:34

HustleRussell

6,804 posts

48 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins.

cheddar

2,813 posts

62 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
HustleRussell said:
That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins.
Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed.

All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT.

And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86.

Edited by cheddar on Sunday 10th June 23:43

otolith

26,674 posts

92 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
It is a bit lighter, but most of the benefit over a hatchback derived Golf-in-a-frock kind of car is that it has a low centre of gravity and isn't nose heavy.

Ecosseven

Original Poster:

1,202 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
cheddar said:
HustleRussell said:
That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins.
Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed.

All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT.

And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86.

Edited by cheddar on Sunday 10th June 23:43
It's difficult to get an exact comparison as Toyota quote the kerb weight as 1240kg but don't say whether or not this includes fuel, a driver or luggage. Audi quote 1280kg and specifically state that this excludes a driver and luggage but not whether or not the weight includes fuel. Only VW are completely clear on what their kerb weight figure includes. VW quote 1373kg's but this includes a 90% full fuel tank AND 68kg for a driver AND 7kg for luggage ( =1298kg if you subtract the weight allowance for a driver and luggage)

Assuming my assumptions are correct then I was surprised at how close the respective kerb weights are bearing in mind the hype about the GT86's lightweight construction.





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EDLT

14,730 posts

94 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
40kg is bugger all in the grand scheme of things. PH loves BMWs even though the 1-series is relatively lardy.

Ecosseven

Original Poster:

1,202 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 10th June 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
It is a bit lighter, but most of the benefit over a hatchback derived Golf-in-a-frock kind of car is that it has a low centre of gravity and isn't nose heavy.
.

Agreed. I have no doubt that the GT86 will be the better drivers car and I applaud Toyota and Subaru for bringing it to the market. Only time will tell whether or not it will be a sales success.

For a driver of my average ability and for the type of driving I do I would probably take a Scirocco over a GT86.



HustleRussell

6,804 posts

48 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
cheddar said:
HustleRussell said:
That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins.
Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed.

All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT.

And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86.
Rear drive will always be heavier. A 40kg advantage over your competitor in class is an achievement even if the cars have the same layout. Achieving the same advantage with a RWD car against a FWD car is nothing short of impressive.
Also, all this is before you consider the comparative axle weights front and rear between the FWD and RWD car. I've no doubt about which will be the better driver's car.

HustleRussell

6,804 posts

48 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
Also 40kg is a big deal in car design and shouldn't be dismissed as a small margin.

otolith

26,674 posts

92 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
It depends what you like in a car. You won't realise a performance advantage on the road, but if you are fussy about how a car feels, it may be worth it to you. Evo preferred a hot hatch to the Subaru version, but then they also always preferred the 350Z to the RX-8, and having owned both I prefered the Mazda for the same advantages the Toyota/Subaru has. So for those who care, it is important, and for those who don't it isn't.

hornetrider

49,868 posts

93 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
Ecosseven said:
For a driver of my average ability and for the type of driving I do I would probably take a Scirocco over a GT86.
I actually pity you. Picking a FWD hatch over a Sports car. Ah well, each to their own.

Zed Ed

788 posts

71 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
More importantly, what about the brz wait wink

Where is mine? Not in time for Le Mans at this rate.

xRIEx

3,916 posts

36 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
Ecosseven said:
VW quote ... 68kg for a driver...
Which proves the TT is a girl's car.

JonathanLegard

5,168 posts

125 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
Ecosseven said:
It's difficult to get an exact comparison as Toyota quote the kerb weight as 1240kg but don't say whether or not this includes fuel, a driver or luggage. Audi quote 1280kg and specifically state that this excludes a driver and luggage but not whether or not the weight includes fuel. Only VW are completely clear on what their kerb weight figure includes. VW quote 1373kg's but this includes a 90% full fuel tank AND 68kg for a driver AND 7kg for luggage ( =1298kg if you subtract the weight allowance for a driver and luggage)

Assuming my assumptions are correct then I was surprised at how close the respective kerb weights are bearing in mind the hype about the GT86's lightweight construction.
Luggage? What sort of luggage? Polystyrene blocks or lead ingots?

s m

10,733 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
I'm going to wait for the full Autocar test to see what they weigh the car(s) at - that should be comparable with the weights obtained in the same way for the TT etc

kambites

41,550 posts

109 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
s m said:
I'm going to wait for the full Autocar test to see what they weigh the car(s) at - that should be comparable with the weights obtained in the same way for the TT etc
yes Although if Toyota's figures were making it look bad compared to its rivals because they were measured differently, you'd have thought Toyota would have said something by now.

MarkRSi

4,380 posts

106 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
Ecosseven said:
Audi TT (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1280kg. This does not include an allowance for a driver or luggage.
VW Scirocco (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1298kg. Again this does not include an allowance for a driver of luggage although it does include a 90% full fuel tank.
Seriously? I was expecting these to be 1400+kg - wasn't the Megane 265 (also a 2.0l turbo and coupe-ish) also around this weight (1398kg?) and everyone was banging on how "lightweight" it was? confused (or was that compared to the 1500kg Focus RS?)

s m

10,733 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
cheddar said:
HustleRussell said:
That's impressive. They're a fair bit lighter than the TT and Scirocco while carrying the heavier RWD gubbins.
Oh, I thought the exact opposite. Unimpressed.

All the 'Lightweight Rear drive' hype and only 40kilos less than an Audi TT.

And, the Scirocco is quoted with approx 50kilos of fuel so in reality it weighs the same as the GT86.

Edited by cheddar on Sunday 10th June 23:43
The 2.0 TSi GT Scirocco that Autocar tested 10/09/08 had a kerb weight of 1390 kg.
The 2.0 TSi R they tested 24/02/10 had a kerb weight of 1400kg.

Seems a fair bit heavier to me unless they had dodgy scales?

EDLT

14,730 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
MarkRSi said:
Ecosseven said:
Audi TT (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1280kg. This does not include an allowance for a driver or luggage.
VW Scirocco (2.0 TSI manual gearbox) - 1298kg. Again this does not include an allowance for a driver of luggage although it does include a 90% full fuel tank.
Seriously? I was expecting these to be 1400+kg - wasn't the Megane 265 (also a 2.0l turbo and coupe-ish) also around this weight (1398kg?) and everyone was banging on how "lightweight" it was? confused (or was that compared to the 1500kg Focus RS?)
It is because it is all exaggerated. My Peugeot 306 was 1200kg and that was without the posh interior, climate control, crash structures, turbo, a wing that pops up at the push of a button and everything else the TT has.

Dr G

11,352 posts

130 months

[news] 
Monday 11th June 2012 quote quote all
Autocar weigh with fuel and a driver don't they?
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