RE: PH Blog: has Audi ruined Le Mans?
Monday 18th June 2012
Should we be worried that Audi has won Le Mans yet again? Or should we celebrate what is, even with the money-no-object dominance, a pretty amazing achievement?
The look of resignation on the faces of Le Mans regulars when the Toyota challenge crumbled and the inevitability of some sort of Audi victory presented itself was obvious. But just what is it about Audi winning so much that gets people's backs up?
In some senses Audi is only partly to blame. After all, they'd probably relish a proper race with someone as much as anyone. So long as they eventually win, of course. So it's partly a case of someone being up to offering a challenge. The flipside of this is who, seeing the Audi presence at Le Mans, would think it's even worth the bother? It comes to something when Toyota is considered an underdog.
It's this mentality that can mean the victory celebrations and corporate chest-beating drown out the very real dramas that unfold during the race - stuff like the sight of a frantic Romain Dumas scrambling out of his car and single-handedly ripping off huge sections of damaged bodywork in a desperate attempt to get his car back to the pits, one front wheel dangling on broken suspension, and stay in the race.
PH Blog: has Audi ruined Le Mans?
There's dominance and there's dominance, but does Audi's 11th victory in 13 years detract from the magic of Le Mans?
I'm torn. As a Le Mans first-timer I found Audi's 'ownership' of the event impossible to ignore. Or escape. Yes, my Le Mans was shamelessly enhanced by the Audi corporate dollar, the view from the Audi Racing Terrace at the Dunlop Bridge nearly as good as the crisp pilsner on tap, the endless food, the shuttles and pinch-myself experience of watching the start leaning out of a window alongside Richard Attwood. Having enjoyed all that, am I in any position to be cynical? Possibly not. Oh well...
The money has to play a part. Audi's investment in Le Mans is incredible and so completely out of step with anyone else's it's hard to avoid the sense the race has been bought. Any true Le Mans fan shouldn't begrudge success on the track, but it's the lack of corporate humility - an arrogance even - that pervades the rest of Audi's presence that's easy to scorn.
Le Mans has always celebrated the underdog spirit, the triumph of true grit over privilege, and at the sharp end of the race that can still be true. And I guess it's this sense, correct or otherwise, that Audi has simply paid its way to the top that sticks in the craw.
Audi's challenge now is in the presentation. This story on Autocar I read before the race 'humanised' the story of Audi at Le Mans far more than any official material. I want to know about board members in the garage in the small hours with their sleeves rolled up, hands covered in oil. There IS passion at Audi. It just seems to get written out of the official version of events.
The technical achievements should be celebrated too. To get two hybrid cars first and second after 24 hours of racing in the first year of trying is amazing, ditto the technology like carbon-fibre gearbox casings used for the first time this year. And yet you get the sense the cars win almost despite the fallible human beings paid to guide them around the track and, as an organisation, Audi would almost prefer to run the E Trons like the Scalextric cars they sometimes look like.
That's not multi-million euro investment in action - that's one man's grit and determination in the face of apparently impossible odds. That's what Le Mans is about. If Dumas drove for another team he'd be celebrated as a hero. Because he was in an Audi we all shrug and say 'yeah, whatever.'
So, Audi, there's the challenge. You can win the race. But stop making it look so easy and we might love you for it more! Celebrate the cock-ups, the moments where it looks like it might all unravel and blow up in your face. And by all means keep winning!
Dan
Discussion
Hmmmm.....
Very difficult one. The very advanced technology is good and interesting - but if it rides rough shod over everyone else....
No easy answer to this situation, which has parallels in the past. And present. Citroen/WRC?
Only simple answer is restriction of costs. Either by specification, such as no carbon fibre / no sequential gearboxes / no telemetry?? Or put a limit on the value of the cars. Anyone can buy a Le Mans car for £1M or £.5M??
I'm struggling here, I'll go and get my Nomex suit....
Very difficult one. The very advanced technology is good and interesting - but if it rides rough shod over everyone else....
No easy answer to this situation, which has parallels in the past. And present. Citroen/WRC?
Only simple answer is restriction of costs. Either by specification, such as no carbon fibre / no sequential gearboxes / no telemetry?? Or put a limit on the value of the cars. Anyone can buy a Le Mans car for £1M or £.5M??
I'm struggling here, I'll go and get my Nomex suit....
It's a shame that the result is so predictable, but it's a bit unfair to say the manufacturer who throws the most cash at a race spoils it. It would be fairer to say that all the other manufacturers spoil it by not spending enough to compete! If there were three or four teams presenting the same challenge as Audi the racing would be spectacular.
As per my post on another thread it's not the Audi winning all the time that spoils it for me but the way their hospitality/publicity machine takes over the entire town and circuit. I don’t ever recall Porsche, Mercedes or Jaguar being so omnipresent off the circuit.
t1grm said:
I have to say I think the Audi publicity machine is killing the atmosphere of the race. It’s getting like going to an Audi product launch. Do they really need FOUR VIP buildings (note I say buildings because that’s what they were – not marquees or motor homes). Add that to the fleets of Audi courtesy cars outside the railway station, every hotel in town, and in every circuit car park and the fact that all the official circuit cars are Audis. They even managed to get their tentacles round the vintage car that does the parade of the trophy round the circuit on Saturday morning. The Toytoa hospitality was virtually non-existent (or very discreet). Next year I think I will camp in a field behind my local Audi dealer and be done with it! 
Not sure you can really lay any blame at Audi.
It's not their fault that no other major manufacturer wants to outbid them for marketing space or match the investment to go out and win.
It's more a general failing of major manufacturers in the modern world who see racing much more as a marketing tool then they used to and so try and take ownership of an event or series where they won't have the risk of competition and losing out on the 'wins' needed for the next ad campaign etc.
It's not their fault that no other major manufacturer wants to outbid them for marketing space or match the investment to go out and win.
It's more a general failing of major manufacturers in the modern world who see racing much more as a marketing tool then they used to and so try and take ownership of an event or series where they won't have the risk of competition and losing out on the 'wins' needed for the next ad campaign etc.
pretty sure its peugeot that have ruined le mans this year. you can't blame the one manufacturer that has supported le mans through the 21st century for ruining it.
i think toyota have proved this year that Audi are not unbeatable, by getting into the lead on pace alone. this should lead to more manufacturers becoming involved.
my personal opinion is that all factory cars should be offered for sale for the following year to privateers. if a team wants to race in LMP1 they should have the option of buying an old Audi or Pug etc not just relying on lola for the chassis.
atleast this way the grid would have more cars that could potentially win overal.
i think toyota have proved this year that Audi are not unbeatable, by getting into the lead on pace alone. this should lead to more manufacturers becoming involved.
my personal opinion is that all factory cars should be offered for sale for the following year to privateers. if a team wants to race in LMP1 they should have the option of buying an old Audi or Pug etc not just relying on lola for the chassis.
atleast this way the grid would have more cars that could potentially win overal.
I think the only way to open it out, if that is what is felt to be required, is a big change in regulation that propels everyone back to a similar position in terms of development. I've always pondered what would happen if the cars had to be road legal - it might introduce some new ideas.
But I guess the risk would be that you might not get new entrants but simply lose Audi who would take the opportunity to move on.
The other problem is the manufacturers who might wish to join the party, especially as their marketing resorces are being directed more to the emerging markets in the East. After all - has anyone in China ecer heard of Le Mans? I've no idea.
But I guess the risk would be that you might not get new entrants but simply lose Audi who would take the opportunity to move on.
The other problem is the manufacturers who might wish to join the party, especially as their marketing resorces are being directed more to the emerging markets in the East. After all - has anyone in China ecer heard of Le Mans? I've no idea.
I think that's the thing - the corporate presence is distinct and separate from the race team. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Audi racing team couldn't give a flying f
k about the Audi corporate presence - they're there to go racing.And they go racing very, very effectively.
Yes, they make it look easy, and yes that has distorted peoples' perceptions of what it takes to win a 24 hour endurance race, but the fact that they have raised the bar very high in terms of their own performance, and that required by their competitors, can't be a bad thing surely ?
Basically, efficiency shouldn't be confused with a lack of passion. Although let's not forget, they *are* German...
I think although the size of the hopsitality is overpowering,the battles should be judged on the track and not in the "my tent is bigger than your tent" debate.
I think in a world where car manufactures are scaling back their motorsport operations and implementing cost saving measures, Audi should be celebrated for having the balls to spend silly amounts of money on it in the first place. After all, they will have to sell a lot of cars to be able to pay for it! The sad day will come when they decide that it is no longer financial viable to be able do such an operation and go the way that Porshce and Bentley have and just become the toys of the privateer entries with drivers that have too much money going spare and buy themselves a drive!
I think in a world where car manufactures are scaling back their motorsport operations and implementing cost saving measures, Audi should be celebrated for having the balls to spend silly amounts of money on it in the first place. After all, they will have to sell a lot of cars to be able to pay for it! The sad day will come when they decide that it is no longer financial viable to be able do such an operation and go the way that Porshce and Bentley have and just become the toys of the privateer entries with drivers that have too much money going spare and buy themselves a drive!
SHutchinson said:
I'd love to see Audi, Toyota, Mazda and Peugeot racing it out in LMP1 next year.
Mazda will be building engines for LMP2 from 2013 but, as far as I can tell, not entering as a Chassis/engine team for now.IMO the problem isn't Audi, it's the lack of others competing - maybe in part to no-one wanting to throw enough money at it but also because, just maybe, they don't believe they can win.
What's the story about Pug not being there anyway, I missed that in the build-up..?
It's prototypes that kill it.
Audi somehow justifies the massive spend in marketing terms (even though it only mentioned rallying at the at the new RS4 launch last week) despite the fact the LMP1 cars look nothing like cars. Porsche are on-stream, hopefully Toyota will be back. But the grid would be more diverse if the cars had to be based on production machines.
Of course that's already the case in the GT class. But the telly cameras spend more time lingering on Dr. Ulrich's pseudo-anguised fizzog than on the entire GT class, so we barely get to see any of it.
Remember Macca v F40 v 993 GT2? Now we get silent racing slippers ghosting their way at insane speeds.
Whole thing needs a shake-up.
Audi somehow justifies the massive spend in marketing terms (even though it only mentioned rallying at the at the new RS4 launch last week) despite the fact the LMP1 cars look nothing like cars. Porsche are on-stream, hopefully Toyota will be back. But the grid would be more diverse if the cars had to be based on production machines.
Of course that's already the case in the GT class. But the telly cameras spend more time lingering on Dr. Ulrich's pseudo-anguised fizzog than on the entire GT class, so we barely get to see any of it.
Remember Macca v F40 v 993 GT2? Now we get silent racing slippers ghosting their way at insane speeds.
Whole thing needs a shake-up.
Numeric said:
I've always pondered what would happen if the cars had to be road legal - it might introduce some new ideas.
They did this in the mid to late 90's, and it spawned an arms race between manufacturers who produced ever more obscure versions of 'road cars' and the costs spiralled.I fear Audi has created a monster. Of course it's done nothing wrong in creating one of the most efficient and of course one of the most successful motorsport teams we've ever seen. Cash has certainly been a huge factor as has been effort by both drivers and team personnel/engineers etc. Impressive as it may be I'm not a fan.
It's the money invested that worries me. What it means if any manufacturer out there even thinks about competing at Le Mans and hopes to win, it better stump up the cash and a sh*t load of it and who has that kind of money these days? Audi I guess justifies some of it by using the Le Mans programme as a marketing campaign. But beyond that I think a lot of the investment is written off again the intangible return of 'pride'.
I struggle to enjoy an Audi win, respect, yes but certainly not enjoy. Trampling over the other competitors, out spending, out testing and out LED'ing. . .
I don't blame other manufacturers for not showing up, how could they when the risk of losing is so high and the cost of even competing even higher. These barriers to entry have in my opinion killed the top class of Le Mans racing. I think there are only 2 or 3 brands that could budget for a campaign at a push, but that has to be a 5 yr campaign, the first three being learning. If we look at GT there are something like 12+ manufacturers that build competitive GT3 cars.
LMP2 and GT still seems to be highly competitive and it's a really shame they are pretty much an afterthought when it comes to TV coverage. I think if we were to break down the exposure per class I think it would be soothing like 75% LMP1 and those Audi's and the rest is dissipated amongst the others. In fact I think coverage of GT classes by Eurosport was terrible.
I'm totally up to speed on plans for the future but I really hope there is an element of cost cutting and a big effort to get more than 5 manufacturers into the to class of the sport, anything less and it's barely a show.
It's the money invested that worries me. What it means if any manufacturer out there even thinks about competing at Le Mans and hopes to win, it better stump up the cash and a sh*t load of it and who has that kind of money these days? Audi I guess justifies some of it by using the Le Mans programme as a marketing campaign. But beyond that I think a lot of the investment is written off again the intangible return of 'pride'.
I struggle to enjoy an Audi win, respect, yes but certainly not enjoy. Trampling over the other competitors, out spending, out testing and out LED'ing. . .
I don't blame other manufacturers for not showing up, how could they when the risk of losing is so high and the cost of even competing even higher. These barriers to entry have in my opinion killed the top class of Le Mans racing. I think there are only 2 or 3 brands that could budget for a campaign at a push, but that has to be a 5 yr campaign, the first three being learning. If we look at GT there are something like 12+ manufacturers that build competitive GT3 cars.
LMP2 and GT still seems to be highly competitive and it's a really shame they are pretty much an afterthought when it comes to TV coverage. I think if we were to break down the exposure per class I think it would be soothing like 75% LMP1 and those Audi's and the rest is dissipated amongst the others. In fact I think coverage of GT classes by Eurosport was terrible.
I'm totally up to speed on plans for the future but I really hope there is an element of cost cutting and a big effort to get more than 5 manufacturers into the to class of the sport, anything less and it's barely a show.
Didn't Top Gear do a bit last year about how Audi's marketing machine was totally in your face, complete with A4s in every other shot? Next thing you'll be saying all Audi drivers are c*cks, oh wait a minute...
Surely it is great that such an event has massive investment from a large manufacturer?
Surely it is great that such an event has massive investment from a large manufacturer?
Chris Harris said:
It's prototypes that kill it.
Audi somehow justifies the massive spend in marketing terms (even though it only mentioned rallying at the at the new RS4 launch last week) despite the fact the LMP1 cars look nothing like cars. Porsche are on-stream, hopefully Toyota will be back. But the grid would be more diverse if the cars had to be based on production machines.
Of course that's already the case in the GT class. But the telly cameras spend more time lingering on Dr. Ulrich's pseudo-anguised fizzog than on the entire GT class, so we barely get to see any of it.
Remember Macca v F40 v 993 GT2? Now we get silent racing slippers ghosting their way at insane speeds.
Whole thing needs a shake-up.
Completely agree, Spa 24hrs this year with GT3 will show that. Shame there's no budget to really promote the event anywhere it needs to be to meet it's obvious potential.Audi somehow justifies the massive spend in marketing terms (even though it only mentioned rallying at the at the new RS4 launch last week) despite the fact the LMP1 cars look nothing like cars. Porsche are on-stream, hopefully Toyota will be back. But the grid would be more diverse if the cars had to be based on production machines.
Of course that's already the case in the GT class. But the telly cameras spend more time lingering on Dr. Ulrich's pseudo-anguised fizzog than on the entire GT class, so we barely get to see any of it.
Remember Macca v F40 v 993 GT2? Now we get silent racing slippers ghosting their way at insane speeds.
Whole thing needs a shake-up.
Gassing Station | Le Mans | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff