DBS or V12V ECU remapping/tuning: any experiences?
Discussion
Any DBS or V12V drivers here who have (good or bad) experience with ECU remapping/tuning?
(no, not tuning of the Emotion Control Unit, but of the motor management
)
Of course it is a N/A engine, so not many performance gain, but I did this on some of my other N/A cars too, and it almost always gave a better gas response, more smoothness when shifting gears, and ...... a better mileage!
On my V8 Vantage (MY 2007), I had the AM N400 power upgrade, and it did offer a real and noticeable improvement (from 385bhp to 400+bhp, and +10 Nm more torque, but more importantly: much better gas response and more smoothness).
It seems some companies offer similar upgrades for the DBS (and/or V12V):
EDO
W&M
Paramount
Resulting in an increase from 517bhp to 550bhp and from 570Nm to 600Nm.
Any experiences or thoughts?
(no, not tuning of the Emotion Control Unit, but of the motor management
)Of course it is a N/A engine, so not many performance gain, but I did this on some of my other N/A cars too, and it almost always gave a better gas response, more smoothness when shifting gears, and ...... a better mileage!
On my V8 Vantage (MY 2007), I had the AM N400 power upgrade, and it did offer a real and noticeable improvement (from 385bhp to 400+bhp, and +10 Nm more torque, but more importantly: much better gas response and more smoothness).
It seems some companies offer similar upgrades for the DBS (and/or V12V):
EDO
W&M
Paramount
Resulting in an increase from 517bhp to 550bhp and from 570Nm to 600Nm.
Any experiences or thoughts?
Edited by AWV12 on Monday 18th June 22:13
Edited by AWV12 on Monday 18th June 22:14
George H said:
Why would you bother voiding your warranty for a tiny increase in peak power? Also, would it not affect resale? If I found out a 2nd hand car I was looking at buying had been remapped I would run a mile!
It is not purely for the extra power, but mainly for the extra smoothness, better mileage, etc. Never regretted my N400 upgrade (with warranty!), on the contrary, the approx. 50km I could drive more with a full tank was a joy every time When trading in, and let people test drive your car, they will not pay extra for it, but will find the car run so smooth, compared to others, that they are more easily convinced to go for this one.
But the N400 upgrade was done through Aston so obviously the warranty would be ok. With an aftermarket tuner it wouldn't. Each to their own but I see it as a complete waste personally as there are far better methods of extracting more power from the engine - I.e. Bamford Rose manifolds?
Some people may prefer the supposed smoother driving style, but a lot wouldn't even look at a non standard car I bet. I know I wouldn't.
Some people may prefer the supposed smoother driving style, but a lot wouldn't even look at a non standard car I bet. I know I wouldn't.
SS972 said:
Had engine and gearbox upgrade to my DB9 from le late Rick at DMS and it has proved good so far with a crisper engine and faster gearchanges,as it is no longer availaible not sure if of any help and have no dyno to show any increase but definitly noticable when driving.
Thx, you know what kind of mods he did to the engine and gearbox? (about the gearbox: I already have the clutch "upgraded" from AM themselves, and that is way smoother than before, and no more "noises" from the clutch either!).The gains quoted above are utterly absurd.
It's like the exhaust backbox debate... claims were made of 20-40bhp with a backbox change, this has been proved to be 2-3bhp in fact - what the car FEELS is faster though due to the noise and excitement and people went along with it as lets face it, 450-470nbhp is a lot anyway on the road.
Similarly, I had my car mapped at DMS ad it felt faster as this was done in conjunction with 200cpi cats and a backbox change. Currently my car has standard map and backbox BUT Bamford Rose put my old 200cpi cats back in for Le Mans... you then realise that this is where the power actually comes from.
Mapping may sharpen the throttle slightly, but the only power gains can be from changing the timing so that the car accepts 97/98/99RON fuel. There is around 10-12bhp to be had there if I remember correctly. So in conjuction with a cat change, there is power to be had.
Yes I know I bang on about it, but my new Bamford Rose manifolds will have the pre-cats deleted, I will have shiny new 200cpi cats in the mid-section and retain an OEM backbox. I will also have the car mapped for 98RON fuel and the throttle is already sharp as I have the lightweight flywheel (ftted ith the uprated clutch). Intrigued to see what I will get from my 446bhp starting point... It's not just power though, driveablity will be improved hugely, not that it's a problem in the V12!
Power from the V12 is not simple or cheap, that's a fact. Takes more than plugging in a laptop.
It's like the exhaust backbox debate... claims were made of 20-40bhp with a backbox change, this has been proved to be 2-3bhp in fact - what the car FEELS is faster though due to the noise and excitement and people went along with it as lets face it, 450-470nbhp is a lot anyway on the road.
Similarly, I had my car mapped at DMS ad it felt faster as this was done in conjunction with 200cpi cats and a backbox change. Currently my car has standard map and backbox BUT Bamford Rose put my old 200cpi cats back in for Le Mans... you then realise that this is where the power actually comes from.
Mapping may sharpen the throttle slightly, but the only power gains can be from changing the timing so that the car accepts 97/98/99RON fuel. There is around 10-12bhp to be had there if I remember correctly. So in conjuction with a cat change, there is power to be had.
Yes I know I bang on about it, but my new Bamford Rose manifolds will have the pre-cats deleted, I will have shiny new 200cpi cats in the mid-section and retain an OEM backbox. I will also have the car mapped for 98RON fuel and the throttle is already sharp as I have the lightweight flywheel (ftted ith the uprated clutch). Intrigued to see what I will get from my 446bhp starting point... It's not just power though, driveablity will be improved hugely, not that it's a problem in the V12!
Power from the V12 is not simple or cheap, that's a fact. Takes more than plugging in a laptop.
It's something I was interested in, especially when combined with some decatting (the V12V has 6 cats!).
If you could find someone who could do a really good bespoke map for your car it would be great. They might even be able to set it up for using higher octane fuel and the combined bhp increase could be pretty significant. I heard from the horses mouth that simply removing cats releases a eyebrow raising amount of bhp.
What's make me put it on the back burner aside from the cost and risk of making the car unpleasantly noisy (needed yet more cost to put it back to standard) is getting stitched up like a kipper by the gendarmes in France a few weeks ago. A V12V is a bit frustrating in the UK being honest because you want to extend it to hear the V12 roar but chances to do so are few and far between. France used to be the answer but they are getting so severe on speeding there now it's nearly as bad as the UK. So my current conclusion is that more power is the last thing I or the car needs!
If you could find someone who could do a really good bespoke map for your car it would be great. They might even be able to set it up for using higher octane fuel and the combined bhp increase could be pretty significant. I heard from the horses mouth that simply removing cats releases a eyebrow raising amount of bhp.
What's make me put it on the back burner aside from the cost and risk of making the car unpleasantly noisy (needed yet more cost to put it back to standard) is getting stitched up like a kipper by the gendarmes in France a few weeks ago. A V12V is a bit frustrating in the UK being honest because you want to extend it to hear the V12 roar but chances to do so are few and far between. France used to be the answer but they are getting so severe on speeding there now it's nearly as bad as the UK. So my current conclusion is that more power is the last thing I or the car needs!
franki68 said:
I remapped my r8 v8 as coming into it from a 997turbo it was lacking a bit in mid range,but I just cannot see any purpose in messing with the v12 engine? It has no weakness (apart from its love of petrol ).
Yes, but the R8 is torque limited in the first 3 gears. You really feel the difference after removing the limits. I may be incorrect on this, but since the V12 in the DB9 / V12V doesn't have any knock sensors, doesn't this severely limit the tuning possibilities? Unless you tune it for 98 octane only?
AWV12 said:
Thx, you know what kind of mods he did to the engine and gearbox? (about the gearbox: I already have the clutch "upgraded" from AM themselves, and that is way smoother than before, and no more "noises" from the clutch either!).
I don't know what has been done to the ECUs but the car felt crisper and the TTbox more "driver friendly", may be TT2 remap,no ideas about the bhp gain but noticable pleasurewise.Sorry no to be more helpful.yeti said:
The gains quoted above are utterly absurd.
It's like the exhaust backbox debate... claims were made of 20-40bhp with a backbox change, this has been proved to be 2-3bhp in fact - what the car FEELS is faster though due to the noise and excitement and people went along with it as lets face it, 450-470nbhp is a lot anyway on the road.
Similarly, I had my car mapped at DMS ad it felt faster as this was done in conjunction with 200cpi cats and a backbox change. Currently my car has standard map and backbox BUT Bamford Rose put my old 200cpi cats back in for Le Mans... you then realise that this is where the power actually comes from.
Mapping may sharpen the throttle slightly, but the only power gains can be from changing the timing so that the car accepts 97/98/99RON fuel. There is around 10-12bhp to be had there if I remember correctly. So in conjuction with a cat change, there is power to be had.
Yes I know I bang on about it, but my new Bamford Rose manifolds will have the pre-cats deleted, I will have shiny new 200cpi cats in the mid-section and retain an OEM backbox. I will also have the car mapped for 98RON fuel and the throttle is already sharp as I have the lightweight flywheel (ftted ith the uprated clutch). Intrigued to see what I will get from my 446bhp starting point... It's not just power though, driveablity will be improved hugely, not that it's a problem in the V12!
Power from the V12 is not simple or cheap, that's a fact. Takes more than plugging in a laptop.
totaly agree with the Yeti....just because the cars a bit louder dosn't make it quicker.......dont get all this re-mapping rubbishIt's like the exhaust backbox debate... claims were made of 20-40bhp with a backbox change, this has been proved to be 2-3bhp in fact - what the car FEELS is faster though due to the noise and excitement and people went along with it as lets face it, 450-470nbhp is a lot anyway on the road.
Similarly, I had my car mapped at DMS ad it felt faster as this was done in conjunction with 200cpi cats and a backbox change. Currently my car has standard map and backbox BUT Bamford Rose put my old 200cpi cats back in for Le Mans... you then realise that this is where the power actually comes from.
Mapping may sharpen the throttle slightly, but the only power gains can be from changing the timing so that the car accepts 97/98/99RON fuel. There is around 10-12bhp to be had there if I remember correctly. So in conjuction with a cat change, there is power to be had.
Yes I know I bang on about it, but my new Bamford Rose manifolds will have the pre-cats deleted, I will have shiny new 200cpi cats in the mid-section and retain an OEM backbox. I will also have the car mapped for 98RON fuel and the throttle is already sharp as I have the lightweight flywheel (ftted ith the uprated clutch). Intrigued to see what I will get from my 446bhp starting point... It's not just power though, driveablity will be improved hugely, not that it's a problem in the V12!
Power from the V12 is not simple or cheap, that's a fact. Takes more than plugging in a laptop.
michael gould said:
yeti said:
The gains quoted above are utterly absurd.
It's like the exhaust backbox debate... claims were made of 20-40bhp with a backbox change, this has been proved to be 2-3bhp in fact - what the car FEELS is faster though due to the noise and excitement and people went along with it as lets face it, 450-470nbhp is a lot anyway on the road.
Similarly, I had my car mapped at DMS ad it felt faster as this was done in conjunction with 200cpi cats and a backbox change. Currently my car has standard map and backbox BUT Bamford Rose put my old 200cpi cats back in for Le Mans... you then realise that this is where the power actually comes from.
Mapping may sharpen the throttle slightly, but the only power gains can be from changing the timing so that the car accepts 97/98/99RON fuel. There is around 10-12bhp to be had there if I remember correctly. So in conjuction with a cat change, there is power to be had.
Yes I know I bang on about it, but my new Bamford Rose manifolds will have the pre-cats deleted, I will have shiny new 200cpi cats in the mid-section and retain an OEM backbox. I will also have the car mapped for 98RON fuel and the throttle is already sharp as I have the lightweight flywheel (ftted ith the uprated clutch). Intrigued to see what I will get from my 446bhp starting point... It's not just power though, driveablity will be improved hugely, not that it's a problem in the V12!
Power from the V12 is not simple or cheap, that's a fact. Takes more than plugging in a laptop.
totaly agree with the Yeti....just because the cars a bit louder dosn't make it quicker.......dont get all this re-mapping rubbishIt's like the exhaust backbox debate... claims were made of 20-40bhp with a backbox change, this has been proved to be 2-3bhp in fact - what the car FEELS is faster though due to the noise and excitement and people went along with it as lets face it, 450-470nbhp is a lot anyway on the road.
Similarly, I had my car mapped at DMS ad it felt faster as this was done in conjunction with 200cpi cats and a backbox change. Currently my car has standard map and backbox BUT Bamford Rose put my old 200cpi cats back in for Le Mans... you then realise that this is where the power actually comes from.
Mapping may sharpen the throttle slightly, but the only power gains can be from changing the timing so that the car accepts 97/98/99RON fuel. There is around 10-12bhp to be had there if I remember correctly. So in conjuction with a cat change, there is power to be had.
Yes I know I bang on about it, but my new Bamford Rose manifolds will have the pre-cats deleted, I will have shiny new 200cpi cats in the mid-section and retain an OEM backbox. I will also have the car mapped for 98RON fuel and the throttle is already sharp as I have the lightweight flywheel (ftted ith the uprated clutch). Intrigued to see what I will get from my 446bhp starting point... It's not just power though, driveablity will be improved hugely, not that it's a problem in the V12!
Power from the V12 is not simple or cheap, that's a fact. Takes more than plugging in a laptop.
So the 3.0 tdi has more power each time they launch it but if you re-map any audi 3.0 tdi from the last few yrs, you get to the same bhp regardless of the starting point (around 285) - starting points are 230-245bhp depending on the model
My old Saab 2.0 turbo petrol had similar gains
But as you say, on a petrol, non force induction engine like this, gains are negligible
And you always have to wonder if a set of guys in back street garages can really out skill Aston Martin's own engineers, so that they can deliver more power, torque and economy. Just seems a bit surprising if AM don't have the capability to get free economy and power boosts and pass these on to customers, at a price.
What I can see is that remapping can get perceived power increases in one of four ways:
- change the pedal setting, so that 1/2 throttle gives 3/4 power, that will make it seem much faster, until you reach full throttle, when it gives the same power it always did
- advance the timing to work with higher octane fuel. That does give extra power, if you can find the right octane. Not sure how much difference this would make when a car has knock sensors, so it could be set up from the factory for 105 octane, and will retard itself to the point where it can live with the rubbish you put in the tank
- allow a few extra rpm at the redline, depending on cams etc. this might give more power but at some risk to the engine
- finally, it could correct mistakes made at the factory, or remove safety margins imposed by the factory. This is the area they would like us to believe is the aftermarket tuner's core skill
What I can see is that remapping can get perceived power increases in one of four ways:
- change the pedal setting, so that 1/2 throttle gives 3/4 power, that will make it seem much faster, until you reach full throttle, when it gives the same power it always did
- advance the timing to work with higher octane fuel. That does give extra power, if you can find the right octane. Not sure how much difference this would make when a car has knock sensors, so it could be set up from the factory for 105 octane, and will retard itself to the point where it can live with the rubbish you put in the tank
- allow a few extra rpm at the redline, depending on cams etc. this might give more power but at some risk to the engine
- finally, it could correct mistakes made at the factory, or remove safety margins imposed by the factory. This is the area they would like us to believe is the aftermarket tuner's core skill
BingoBob said:
I may be incorrect on this, but since the V12 in the DB9 / V12V doesn't have any knock sensors, doesn't this severely limit the tuning possibilities? Unless you tune it for 98 octane only?
Good point, I also thought that the current V12 has no knocking sensors (the new Vanquish will!) so how can it be optimised for 98 or 100 octane? MichaelV8V said:
And you always6t have to wonder if a set of guys in back street garages can really out skill Aston Martin's own engineers, so that they can deliver more power, torque and economy.
Michael, probably unfair of me to highlight just this section and make a counter argument as your comment is well put, its just the statement of any factory's engineers being better than independent i had to react to..... The point that factory gods can be 'Vanquish'd by independent back street garages needs making - cos it can and does happen.....
What Jonby remarks above about his pressure charged / diesel experience is true and happens across many manufacturers. Lets take BMW / MINI for example. The MINI One 1600cc was released at 60ish kW's, the MINI Cooper was released at 85ish kW's. The only thing that separated the two was a restricted throttle map for the lower power derivative. So here aftermarket steps in and pimps the Mini One ride with a press of a button to give Mini Cooper unrestricted power to the MINI One. Then....... up steps John Cooper Works who throw some performance upgrade goodies at each MINI spec (inductions system / exhaust and remap ECU), and achieve more power than BMW which BMW then went on to durability test, emissions test and offer out to BMW MINI customers through its own franchised dealer network. Question - If BMW were engineering gods why didn't they release the MINI Cooper at the John Cooper Works spec to start with?? Dont forget John Cooper Works at that point in time were a simple back street garage. The upgrade kits proved so popular that BMW bought the brand.
I am not an advocate of ECU remaps because of the liability if something goes wrong. The ECU does more than control spark and fuelling. If the ECU is remapped and a glitch is introduced into the safety monitoring concepts, and for example, the electronic throttle opens fully wide whilst no throttle pedal is pressed. As a result the car goes out of control and wipes-out a few people in a pile-up at a bus stop - the consequence of introducing a glitch which is at risk of inducing that worst case possible outcome, is not covered by any insurance policy liability cover in my book.
OK.... Some Facts..... for pre 2011 V8 Vantage race cars the manufacturer sells an ECU remap for extra power, and, the factory themselves offer an ECU remap as part of the AM power upgrade kit. So, the power is in there. In this case it would appear that the manufacturer's own learning about their product post initial introduction has led to this improvement - what happens if the back street garage tuning company got there / found out this free gain first and offered it for sale ahead of the factory. They would have in that instance out smarted the factory....
RUF do 'it' for Porsche as has another back street garage outsmarted this factory with a kit of parts and attention to build detail which achieves 100BHP per litre for V8 Vantage, something the factory could not achieve (the mark of an 'Engines' company), and passes emissions standards required.
Most cars are built to a price and for those that want better, better is possible. Its just annoying i guess that a bespoke sports car wasn't built to the pinnacle in the first place.
One thing in my line of work i find intriguing, is the requirements and demands of different owners. Some owners I read the comments of cant comprehend why others want more power, yet other owners that contact me could not be more opposite and quite common is the comment along the lines 'I have owned the car for a few weeks, its sooo darn slow that unless you can make it MUCH quicker i'm selling it'.
Not a rant at you Michael, i just thought those poor back street garage souls needed defending as whether it is a simple ECU reprogram or a more complex kit such as a pressure charger upgrade, there are often quite clever folk behind them who commit hours of their life and huge financial commitment to develop. Oddly, these are the sort of folk who shy away from being engineers at manufacturers because they cant achieve their goals having wings clipped by the bigger machine.....
back to the question - gain is possible, yes, as ecu reprogram erodes the safety margin applied by factory. A discernable gain, no....... IMHO and risk to safety and monitor concepts.
Edited by BamfordMike on Tuesday 19th June 22:12
BamfordMike said:
Michael, probably unfair of me to highlight just this section and make a counter argument as your comment is well put, its just the statement of any factory's engineers being better than independent i had to react to.....
The point that factory gods can be 'Vanquish'd by independent back street garages needs making - cos it can and does happen.....
What Jonby remarks above about his pressure charged / diesel experience is true and happens across many manufacturers. Lets take BMW / MINI for example. The MINI One 1600cc was released at 60ish kW's, the MINI Cooper was released at 85ish kW's. The only thing that separated the two was a restricted throttle map for the lower power derivative. So here aftermarket steps in and pimps the Mini One ride with a press of a button to give Mini Cooper unrestricted power to the MINI One. Then....... up steps John Cooper Works who throw some performance upgrade goodies at each MINI spec (inductions system / exhaust and remap ECU), and achieve more power than BMW which BMW then went on to durability test, emissions test and offer out to BMW MINI customers through its own franchised dealer network. Question - If BMW were engineering gods why didn't they release the MINI Cooper at the John Cooper Works spec to start with?? Dont forget John Cooper Works at that point in time were a simple back street garage. The upgrade kits proved so popular that BMW bought the brand.
I am not an advocate of ECU remaps because of the liability if something goes wrong. The ECU does more than control spark and fuelling. If the ECU is remapped and a glitch is introduced into the safety monitoring concepts, and for example, the electronic throttle opens fully wide whilst no throttle pedal is pressed. As a result the car goes out of control and wipes-out a few people in a pile-up at a bus stop - the consequence of introducing a glitch which is at risk of inducing that worst case possible outcome, is not covered by any insurance policy liability cover in my book.
OK.... Some Facts..... for pre 2011 V8 Vantage race cars the manufacturer sells an ECU remap for extra power, and, the factory themselves offer an ECU remap as part of the AM power upgrade kit. So, the power is in there. In this case it would appear that the manufacturer's own learning about their product post initial introduction has led to this improvement - what happens if the back street garage tuning company got there / found out this free gain first and offered it for sale ahead of the factory. They would have in that instance out smarted the factory....
RUF do 'it' for Porsche as has another back street garage outsmarted this factory with a kit of parts and attention to build detail which achieves 100BHP per litre for V8 Vantage, something the factory could not achieve (the mark of an 'Engines' company), and passes emissions standards required.
Most cars are built to a price and for those that want better, better is possible. Its just annoying i guess that a bespoke sports car wasn't built to the pinnacle in the first place.
One thing in my line of work i find intriguing, is the requirements and demands of different owners. Some owners I read the comments of cant comprehend why others want more power, yet other owners that contact me could not be more opposite and quite common is the comment along the lines 'I have owned the car for a few weeks, its sooo darn slow that unless you can make it MUCH quicker i'm selling it'.
Not a rant at you Michael, i just thought those poor back street garage souls needed defending as whether it is a simple ECU reprogram or a more complex kit such as a pressure charger upgrade, there are often quite clever folk behind them who commit hours of their life and huge financial commitment to develop. Oddly, these are the sort of folk who shy away from being engineers at manufacturers because they cant achieve their goals having wings clipped by the bigger machine.....
back to the question - gain is possible, yes, as ecu reprogram erodes the safety margin applied by factory. A discernable gain, no....... IMHO and risk to safety and monitor concepts.
Mike, I agree with much of what you are saying here. There are a lot of people in the aftermarket who are very knowledgeable and skilled at what they do and who provide excellent products free from the encumbrances of a large auto-maker. A lot of them, such as yourself may even have come from 'the other side'!The point that factory gods can be 'Vanquish'd by independent back street garages needs making - cos it can and does happen.....
What Jonby remarks above about his pressure charged / diesel experience is true and happens across many manufacturers. Lets take BMW / MINI for example. The MINI One 1600cc was released at 60ish kW's, the MINI Cooper was released at 85ish kW's. The only thing that separated the two was a restricted throttle map for the lower power derivative. So here aftermarket steps in and pimps the Mini One ride with a press of a button to give Mini Cooper unrestricted power to the MINI One. Then....... up steps John Cooper Works who throw some performance upgrade goodies at each MINI spec (inductions system / exhaust and remap ECU), and achieve more power than BMW which BMW then went on to durability test, emissions test and offer out to BMW MINI customers through its own franchised dealer network. Question - If BMW were engineering gods why didn't they release the MINI Cooper at the John Cooper Works spec to start with?? Dont forget John Cooper Works at that point in time were a simple back street garage. The upgrade kits proved so popular that BMW bought the brand.
I am not an advocate of ECU remaps because of the liability if something goes wrong. The ECU does more than control spark and fuelling. If the ECU is remapped and a glitch is introduced into the safety monitoring concepts, and for example, the electronic throttle opens fully wide whilst no throttle pedal is pressed. As a result the car goes out of control and wipes-out a few people in a pile-up at a bus stop - the consequence of introducing a glitch which is at risk of inducing that worst case possible outcome, is not covered by any insurance policy liability cover in my book.
OK.... Some Facts..... for pre 2011 V8 Vantage race cars the manufacturer sells an ECU remap for extra power, and, the factory themselves offer an ECU remap as part of the AM power upgrade kit. So, the power is in there. In this case it would appear that the manufacturer's own learning about their product post initial introduction has led to this improvement - what happens if the back street garage tuning company got there / found out this free gain first and offered it for sale ahead of the factory. They would have in that instance out smarted the factory....
RUF do 'it' for Porsche as has another back street garage outsmarted this factory with a kit of parts and attention to build detail which achieves 100BHP per litre for V8 Vantage, something the factory could not achieve (the mark of an 'Engines' company), and passes emissions standards required.
Most cars are built to a price and for those that want better, better is possible. Its just annoying i guess that a bespoke sports car wasn't built to the pinnacle in the first place.
One thing in my line of work i find intriguing, is the requirements and demands of different owners. Some owners I read the comments of cant comprehend why others want more power, yet other owners that contact me could not be more opposite and quite common is the comment along the lines 'I have owned the car for a few weeks, its sooo darn slow that unless you can make it MUCH quicker i'm selling it'.
Not a rant at you Michael, i just thought those poor back street garage souls needed defending as whether it is a simple ECU reprogram or a more complex kit such as a pressure charger upgrade, there are often quite clever folk behind them who commit hours of their life and huge financial commitment to develop. Oddly, these are the sort of folk who shy away from being engineers at manufacturers because they cant achieve their goals having wings clipped by the bigger machine.....
back to the question - gain is possible, yes, as ecu reprogram erodes the safety margin applied by factory. A discernable gain, no....... IMHO and risk to safety and monitor concepts.
Edited by BamfordMike on Tuesday 19th June 22:12
There are a lot of examples of sandbagged engines - VAG for example had their 1.8T engine fitted to a lot of cars at the 170BHP mark, but the same engine, same ancillaries different software made 210BHP in other applications.... For a lot of people, an aftermarket upgrade to these levels makes a lot of sense. Depending upon where you live in the world people may even have the ability to do this without compromising their warranty since the manufacturer offers the same thing, or very similar themselves.
The current 5.0 AJV8 from JLR is another great example. 510BHP in the XKR/XFR/XJ Supercharged, but a simple SC pulley change and revised settings will yield excellent results. Many in the aftermarket started offering this upgrade and then lo and behold, Jag came out with something extremely similar on the XKRS. I actually spoke with one of the development engineers from JLR who told me they were running these engines between 750-800 BHP with no other hardware changes during the development phase. That engine will probably be putting out 650BHP+ in some of their models by the time it gets retired and superceded.
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