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khushy

Original Poster:

3,478 posts

107 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
so - how do Porsche get 350BHP out of the same engine - both 3436cc???

Discuss :-)

khushy

MadMark911

1,567 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
Could be different cams (and hence cam timing), a less restrictive exhaust, different ECU program and maybe a larger inlet manifold?

nickfrog

3,675 posts

105 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
And different mapping?

khushy

Original Poster:

3,478 posts

107 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
like an x51???

Bennachie

686 posts

39 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
You develop a 3.4 with a cooking output and put it into say, a 987.2 knowing that the motor has tuning potential way beyond the initial outputs and very early on decide to use that engine (and its economies of scale) in all of your upcoming new sports models with varying outputs achieved by altering fuel maps, ignition maps, changing the throttle bodies, cam profiles/timing/lift, changing exhaust manifolds/system and possibly changing the heads.
VW/Audi have been doing it for years with their engines, particularly the diesels. Two litres but several spec. outputs. Admittedly it is easier with a turbo motor but the principles are similar, develop a 'base unit' knowing that it can be developed from there. The original 9A1 engine was probably designed to produce to produce, say, 400hp and was initially detuned for its initial installation. It is then fairly simple to produce sequentially more powerful versions of it for 987S, 987R, 981, and 991/991S etc.
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khushy

Original Poster:

3,478 posts

107 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
so how much would it cost to put a "cooking" kit together for a Boxster 3.4 DFi and what would be the ingredients . . .

cams
ECU remap
Exhaust
Air Box
Plenum ??

khushy

Ian_UK1

1,292 posts

82 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
khushy said:
so how much would it cost to put a "cooking" kit together for a Boxster 3.4 DFi and what would be the ingredients . . .

cams
ECU remap
Exhaust
Air Box
Plenum ??

khushy
Essentially, you'd need to look into what parts were different in the Boxster version of the engine compared to the more powerful 911 variants and modify accordingly. But... This mightn't be possible if the difference in output is caused simply by the engine's installation in the car. It could be, for example, that the positionining of the engine in the Boxster simply means the intakes and exhaust are more restrictive (but I doubt it).

I'm sure I read somewhere (on an American forum) that someone had put a 997 3.8 DFI lump in a Gen-2 Boxster S to very good effect. Doing a complete transplant might eventually cost less than stripping the 3.4 and changing however many components are required. You also know with a transplant that there's a standard Porsche ECU map that will work perfectly with the engine.

There's also the traditional n/a tuning methods available to you (intake, cams, manifolds, exhaust etc.) or - again from America and FAR more effective - a forced induction kit. I think TPC do something appropriate and you'll see an extra 80/90 BHP not just an extra 10/20 for your outlay. The F.I. kits can also be removed completely, returning the car to standard, before resale/trade-in.

For the money that you might spend on big engine mods, I think an F.I kit will give massively bigger increases for a similar outlay.

khushy

Original Poster:

3,478 posts

107 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
if someone was after 10% only it cannot be that hard/expensive surely?

khushy

uktrailmonster

4,678 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
khushy said:
if someone was after 10% only it cannot be that hard/expensive surely?
As the old motorsport saying goes "speed costs money, so how fast do you want to go?"

You'd probably get 10% on an exhaust kit and aggressive re-map. The next 10% would probably start getting much more expensive.



khushy

Original Poster:

3,478 posts

107 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
320 bhp (boxster) to 350 bhp (911) = ???

HokumPokum

1,063 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
perhaps there is also the element of whether the throttle is fully open on the 987. I think that on C63s , the main difference was this vs the E63 with the same engine and a slightly different exhaust. I am not saying this is the only difference but could be a significant one.

SonnyM

3,132 posts

81 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
khushy said:
320 bhp (boxster) to 350 bhp (911) = ???
After all the mods you'll realise it costs the same or less to buy a 350hp 911, ffs.

smile

mollytherocker

11,471 posts

97 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
SonnyM said:
khushy said:
320 bhp (boxster) to 350 bhp (911) = ???
After all the mods you'll realise it costs the same or less to buy a 350hp 911, ffs.

smile
Its nearly always cheaper to buy the 'right car' in the first place. Money spent developing a Boxster is dead money in my view.

Sell up and buy the car you want.

MTR

cmoose

26,650 posts

117 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
Ian_UK1 said:
For the money that you might spend on big engine mods, I think an F.I kit will give massively bigger increases for a similar outlay.
...while ruining the throttle response and power delivery. Would spoil the car, for me.

Whole thing is completely futile, if you ask me. After a week, you'll be used to the extra 30hp or so the breathing mods give you and you may as well not have bothered.

If it was a Mezger lump with another 100hp and a different character, that might be worth chasing. But an extra 10% on top of the existing 3.4DFI Box is not in my view going to do much to alter driving enjoyment or satisfaction in the long run.

Edited by cmoose on Friday 22 June 13:20

BubblesNW

605 posts

71 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
Have a look at this ...

http://www.tpcracing.com/products/TPC-Racing-9872-...

Pretty impressive as it's a PDK car. No performance numbers but the dyno readings are impressive.



I think Parr would be willing to install.

Edited by BubblesNW on Friday 22 June 14:26

rob.kellock

1,835 posts

80 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
I'm guessing he wants a Spyder that's a bit more powerful. Can't otherwise get one of those!


mrdemon

6,415 posts

153 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
khushy said:
so how much would it cost to put a "cooking" kit together for a Boxster 3.4 DFi and what would be the ingredients . . .

cams
ECU remap
Exhaust
Air Box
Plenum ??

khushy
it's all tried and tested

race exhaust deleting all 4 cats
997 GT3 throttle body
remap to tie it all in and stop the cel light
and a vflow intake.

should be 345 to 350BHp and not that expensive.

get the weight out and a Spyder would be 278BHp/ton :-)

OlberJ

13,981 posts

121 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
khushy said:
so how much would it cost to put a "cooking" kit together for a Boxster 3.4 DFi and what would be the ingredients . . .

cams
ECU remap
Exhaust
Air Box
Plenum ??

khushy
The 1st 5 will help but not sure a khushy will actually improve performance.

Maybe make a bit more noise but real world gains won't be much.

MadMark911

1,567 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
OlberJ said:
khushy said:
so how much would it cost to put a "cooking" kit together for a Boxster 3.4 DFi and what would be the ingredients . . .

cams
ECU remap
Exhaust
Air Box
Plenum ??

khushy
The 1st 5 will help but not sure a khushy will actually improve performance.

Maybe make a bit more noise but real world gains won't be much.
A Khushy permanantly installed in the car? The Amercians could use him to replace the white noise generators that they use for torturing innocent terrorists .... eekeekeek

Ekona

785 posts

90 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
mrdemon said:
it's all tried and tested

race exhaust deleting all 4 cats
997 GT3 throttle body
remap to tie it all in and stop the cel light
and a vflow intake.

should be 345 to 350BHp and not that expensive.

get the weight out and a Spyder would be 278BHp/ton :-)
GT3 throttle body on a DFI engine?
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