Noisy tappets after head gasket change...

[Deluded]

Just replaced the head gasket on my Punto Sporting (16v) over the last 2 days.

It's all back together and running really well although it now sounds like a clapped out old transit.

The carrier and head were off overnight and quite a bit of oil drained out of both. Can I just assume that the tappets/lifters aren't fully lubed up yet and will quieten over time or should I be looking at something else?

Would a flush and oil change help at all or should I just give the current oil a bit of time to fully circulate before spending money on new oil?

Cheers

[Superhoop]

Did you replace the oil after doing the head gasket?? When you remove the head, coolant will find it's way to the sump, so should be changed as part of the repair, along with the filter

If you did, then it will be because he tappets drained out when they were off - best practice is to store them in a container of oil while they are out

Run the engine at a reasonably fast idle for 10 -15 minutes, then leave it idling - this should help bleed the air out and they should eventually go quiet again

[Deluded]

Haven't changed the oil yet although will tomorrow. Fingers crossed that will sort the problem!

[HustleRussell]

How long has the engine ran for since the work? They often need sustained running and oil pressure to pump up.

[Deluded]

Well, just been out and done approx 15-20 miles, some of which was around 8 miles constant 3500rpm.

Would that be enough?

The noise seemed to get a bit quieter from start to finish but still loud. Maybe I just got used to it in all honesty.

Doing an oil change regardless tomorrow. Can only really do good for the engine anyway so hopefully it will help cure this problem. These engines are known for being noisy when oil degrades. I've no idea how old this oil is so it does need doing anyway.

[Alx323]

Was the head skimmed? First time the head gasket on my 106 went, the head was skimmed and it was very tappety. Car died the next day, head had been skimmed previously (no history with the car) and the valve clearances were out IIRC.

[nervouspassenger]

Might be worth taking the rocker cover off to see if oil is getting up to the head. I've only rebuilt one engine, it was apart for months, I didn't leave the tappets in oil and it was quiet 2 minutes after startup.

[davepoth]

Um...if a load of oil drained out of the head and you've not seen to the oil yet, perhaps there isn't enough oil in the engine any more?

[Deluded]

davepoth said:

Um...if a load of oil drained out of the head and you've not seen to the oil yet, perhaps there isn't enough oil in the engine any more?

Checked that before I started it and there was still plenty in the sump.

No rocker cover to remove so can't just take it off and look. Requires a big strip down to get the carrier off. I will do if the oil change does nothing.

Head wasn't skimmed as the old gasket hadnt actually blown after all.

[CraigyMc]

Deluded said:

davepoth said:

Um...if a load of oil drained out of the head and you've not seen to the oil yet, perhaps there isn't enough oil in the engine any more?

Checked that before I started it and there was still plenty in the sump.

No rocker cover to remove so can't just take it off and look. Requires a big strip down to get the carrier off. I will do if the oil change does nothing.

Head wasn't skimmed as the old gasket hadnt actually blown after all.

Hrm. The sump might be full of *something* but how do you know it's oil and not an oil+coolant soup?

C

[Deluded]

Well.. I don't, hence why im doing an oil change.

Looking this morning and the cam carrier seems pretty dry. The bolts that hold it to the head are usually filled with pools of oil. They aren't now. Thinking that oil may not be getting into the carrier but not quite sure why and no real way to check as there are no covers to remove. Taking the carrier off is a cam belt/inlet manifold off job...

[CraigyMc]

Deluded said:

Well.. I don't, hence why im doing an oil change.

Looking this morning and the cam carrier seems pretty dry. The bolts that hold it to the head are usually filled with pools of oil. They aren't now. Thinking that oil may not be getting into the carrier but not quite sure why and no real way to check as there are no covers to remove. Taking the carrier off is a cam belt/inlet manifold off job...

If it were me, I'd do the oil change before anything else. No point trying to figure out why there's no oil in the top of the engine if there's soup in the bottom of it.

C

[Deluded]

Would the soup still not circulate though? The oil on the dipstick, whilst dark, is still nice and runny.

Although as you say, makes Sense to try that first and at least then I know it's been done.

[Veeayt]

Going to do the same this weekend, although alone with changing oil caps, mounts and seals, only for the second time so fingers crossed.

[smartphone hater]

Check your timing.

[Deluded]

smartphone hater said:

Check your timing.

Glad you said that, it is something that concerned me.

When I took the head off, I locked the cam into position as you are supposed to. This lines up the cams and crank so that the pistons are level (MDC i think its called). This is (by all accounts) the correct way to time the engine (pistons level with the cam locked, then tention the belt).

When I took the head off I noticed that the pistons wern't level even though I had pre locked the cams into the correct position.

Assuming that the timing was out before, I set the pistons level, marked it all up and reassembled.

What i did notice though was that someone had previously marked on the cam/crank where they had timed the engine. This was correct when I took the head off but setting the pistons level threw these markings out. My timing is approx 2 teeth on the crank different. So either the timing was wrong before (hence poor running, although may have been down to a few other things I noticed being broken/wrong) or that all owners forums, haynes and fiat tell you to time the engine is wrong :P

Would the timing affect how the oil circulates though? Surely not?

Edited by Deluded on Tuesday 26th June 09:14

[HustleRussell]

Two teeth on the crankshaft pulley equals the camshaft being four teeth out from where it was before. This is a lot. Are you sure it's tappet rattle you're hearing not detonation?

[Deluded]

Would the tappets rattle on turnover? This noise only occurs when it's firing. It's silent when I turn over by hand too.

The timing is out compared to how it used to be but I've timed it by the correct method (the old timing was wrong according to how its supposed to be timed)... plus, surely if the timing was out that much, it would run rubbish too? It runs really smooth and pulls really well. No hesitation or misfiring etc.

[smartphone hater]

Deluded said:

Would the timing affect how the oil circulates though? Surely not?

No but it could result in car sounding like a taxi. I have no experience with your car so can't help you much but you basically need a tool to lock the cam in the TDC position & then line the engine up to match. There may be a mark on the flywheel or you can do it by the position of number one piston.

Hopefully someone here will have experience with your car & will be able to help.

Edited so I didn't mislead.

Edited by smartphone hater on Tuesday 26th June 11:33

[Deluded]

smartphone hater said:

No but it could result in the tappets clattering. I have no experience with your car so can't help you much but you basically need a tool to lock the cam in the TDC position & then line the engine up to match. There may be a mark on the flywheel or you can do it by the position of number one piston.

Hopefully someone here will have experience with your car & will be able to help.

Proceedure with this engine is to lock the cam into position (special tool which only locks in one position) and then you set the pistons to MDC, or all pistons in level. Atleast this is what all of the owners forums & haynes say. This is how I have timed it but as I said, the timing was set with the pistons staggered before (I locked the cam into place before removing the head).

Think I will just do the oil change tonight, start the engine and see how it runs. If still noisy, try setting the timing back to as before and then see how it sounds/drives. If its still noisy I'll strip it another day and hope its something really obvious.

Edited by Deluded on Tuesday 26th June 11:37