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Smitters

Original Poster:

530 posts

26 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
Afternoon ladies and gents,

I appreciate this a an oft done to death topic and I have done a fair bit of searching already, so I thought I'd put up my suggested budget and see what the general opinion was.

I don't really want to get into the specifics of buying just yet as there are lots of opinions (get a turbo/spend 5k more/spend 5k less/get an Exige/AWD is heresy etc). However, the top end budget for the car is £20k and I'm aware that for this there will be compromises, however, I'd rather get something with a low owner numbers, a good indie history and some duff paint and scuffed wheels than a garage queen that's had nineteen owners, five litres of Halford's best each year and never seen a specialist. I intend on owning the car for a number of years and running it daily, doing about 10k miles per year, so with servicing, I've averaged out the likely costs for minor, major and really major on the basis it's better to save today for tomorrow.

Annual Costs:

Finance: £5000
VED:£500
Insurance: £1000

Service/MOT ave: £600
Tyres: £800

Fuel (ave 22mpg @£7.75/gallon): £3500

On this basis I propose to ring-fence £300/month to cover everything but fuel and finance, which brings the total monthly bill to about £1000.

Is this too little? Am I too exposed to a big bill? What have I forgotten to budget for?

Also and this is quite important - can anyone tell me how wide at it's widest a C4S is please? Failure to fit in the garage would be embarrassing...

Many thanks in advance and apologies if I've missed an identical recent thread. I did skim about 20 previous pages and google like mad.

Diesel130

1,547 posts

81 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
993, 996 or 997?

I'm guessing 996 from your price range, but it's only the later 997's that would have VED of over £400...

Smitters

Original Poster:

530 posts

26 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
Nuts! Yes, 996. I thought post 2001 cars would attract the maximum tax, which is steadily creeping up. I've tried to be cynical with costs and get nice surprises!

keith333

62 posts

11 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
If the car is registered before 23rd March 2006 road tax will be £270. After this it jumps to £475 ouch! £600 per annum for servicing seems low to me, but haven't had a 911 since 2006.

Mankers

159 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
Bit of an open ended question. If you buy a good one that has had recent rads, clutch, rms, tyres, discs and has just had a major you will only spend about 300 quid at an Indy for the minor that first year if nothing else goes wrong! If not your cash outlay could be into the thousands. Mine was purchased through opc and needed clutch rms oil pressure sensor and heated seat element in year one. A Rad has just gone too. Prob about a 400 quid fix at an Indy. The car has 36k on the clock.
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Smitters

Original Poster:

530 posts

26 months

[news] 
Thursday 28th June 2012 quote quote all
Cheers for the thoughts so far. I was thinking that budgetting £2500 per year for servicing, tyres, tax and contingency ought to see me safe in light of any failures. Obviously if big jobs like rads, clutch, brakes etc have been recently completed, that's good, but in my budget will probably mean there are compromises elsewhere.

David911RSR

931 posts

79 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
I would recommend taking a maintenance plan with either Hartech or Sports and classic.

The approx cost for annual Std servicing (incl standard servicing parts & labour) and MOT is 80GBP per month. This will also cover all labour costs if anything else needs doing and you just have to pay for parts.

RFL is 270

Tyres - budget 1,000 per set however, depending on driving style, the fronts will only need replacing every 20 - 24K


Smitters

Original Poster:

530 posts

26 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
I will have to do lots of reading into the maintenance plans I think. Rather like an insurance that's not mandatory, part of me likes the safety, whereas another part of me realises that it must make them money, so I am likely to over pay (or at least pay for peace of mind).

Nice to find out the VED isn't top whack. I'd just assumed it was, though £200 difference would be quickly swallowed in the running costs!

In the interests of being useful, here are a couple of links to other running cost threads where I've had some info:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=28&...

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=1&a...

uktrailmonster

4,406 posts

69 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
Smitters said:
Annual Costs:

Finance: £5000
VED:£500
Insurance: £1000

Service/MOT ave: £600
Tyres: £800

Fuel (ave 22mpg @£7.75/gallon): £3500
You'll need to put aside another couple of grand a year for 'other fixes'. That should be enough to cover the usual bills that tend to accompany a standard routine service. You are unlikely to need this fund every year, but they are not cheap cars to run in the longer term. I've just had a major service on my 996 at a highly regarded indy and it cost £740 without any serious faults. Parts and labour quickly add up.

This Is Pete

34 posts

11 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
In response to one of your questions, Parkers has the width of the 997 C4S as 1852mm

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-fi...

mattman

1,107 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
so are you better to go for a car with full history and a higher mileage (say sub 80K) than a car with lower mileage - the age will be the same, but if the car has done more mile some of the bigger jobs will have already been done?

Making a massive assumption here without picking through history of the cars of course

uktrailmonster

4,406 posts

69 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
mattman said:
so are you better to go for a car with full history and a higher mileage (say sub 80K) than a car with lower mileage - the age will be the same, but if the car has done more mile some of the bigger jobs will have already been done?
Possibly, have to judge every car individually. Some fairly expensive things to look out for are:-

Radiators - prone to corrosion
Air con system - prone to leaks and corrosion
Clutch - typically every 40-50K miles
Brake discs/pads
Tyres
Oil leaks (RMS/IMS) - RMS cheap to replace with clutch if not leaking badly

Then there are the major issues like bore scoring and IMS bearing failure - often associated with low mileage examples.
On the other hand higher mileage can lead to deformed cylinder bores i.e. oval

As a compromise, cars between 45-65K should have had a clutch/RMS seal, fresh radiators etc if maintained well and should be past the danger threshold for IMS bearing failure. I'd only be concerned about ultra-low mileage cars of this age with none of the above work yet done.




General Bilko

263 posts

55 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
From Grant Neal 996 Buyers Guide Turbo/C4S width = 1830mm

Smitters

Original Poster:

530 posts

26 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
Well, on the good news front, a widebody 996 would fit in my garage! On the more sobering front, it seems the consensus is allowing between £3000 and £3500 per year for routine and non-routine servicing. As has been said, it might not all be required. Indeed, nothing might be required, but it would be a very brave or foolish person who leapt in to ownership with no contingency fund building up.

I think sadly the burden of finance, plus running, plus fuel costs is too much for me currently. I could always go for a C2 to ease repayments, but the benefit would be slight and the C4S is the one I want, so I think I need a new plan! The worst thing is it's close, but not quite feasable. If only the sums categorically said no I'd feel a lot better about things.

I may buy a lottery ticket and a scratch card this weekend and see if that changes the situation!

Thank you for the input everyone. It's a good set of figures for the potential purchaser to have as a resource.

Edited by Smitters on Friday 29th June 18:50

Magic919

7,555 posts

70 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
Unless you start folding the mirrors in the wide body car really isn't any wider. Good luck finding a good one when you are ready.


6C4GTS

4,501 posts

47 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
If it helps my garage opening at its narrowest is 2.1m, I get the 4S in no bother but its tight and I do fold the mirrors in.

Personally - if I couldn't do the man maths to get the pennies for a 4S or Turbo I'd look at a Boxster S.


Or.....

Having looked at your blog thing, why not a Z4M?

Recent epic depreciation means these are shocking value - note 1200 mile service!!

Edited by 6C4GTS on Friday 29th June 20:42

burman

172 posts

82 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
Agree with most of the posters on here,having run an 03 C4S for 3 years/ 30,000 miles, I think if you find the right car ie with fresh tyres and brakes servicing costs will be lower than you expect at a good indy approx £300 for a minor.
My car had 5 owners when I bought it at 30k miles and was trouble free with NO oil leaks
RMS included, only odd fault was a couple of coil packs at £35 each.
Best of luck finding your car.

Dave Thornton

67 posts

18 months

[news] 
Friday 29th June 2012 quote quote all
I would suggest you revisit the way you calculate your finance costs as £5000 on a £20000 purchase suggests 25% interest! A 10% loan on £20k is £2k in interest and the rest goes into the capital cost of the car. But you should factor in depreciation - on a £20k C4S, assume £1500 per annum + £800 per 10k miles. With all costs factored in, you should be able to work out a "pence per mile" cost, which will enable you to compare other cars and hopefully realise that you may be able to afford it after all. It may well be cheaper than an older car which costs more to fix, and cheaper than a newer car which is still suffering from a steep depreciation curve. A £20k, 60k C4S is possibly the sweet spot of low overall ownership cost.

Smitters

Original Poster:

530 posts

26 months

[news] 
Saturday 30th June 2012 quote quote all
Dave, I've annualised my costs so I can contrast the £ sum against income. Pence per mile feels irrelevant as some costs are mileage independant. What I'm looking for here is a realistic lump from my paypack to allocate each month. The finance figure is, again, annual outgoing and doesn't infer any %. In fact, it's irrelevant to all but me really!

Regards depreciation, this is my man-maths allowance. I'm ignoring it. I'm not trying to invest in a car and it's a long term prospect, so I plan to deal with the resale value when it arises and not worry about theoretical money disappearing. I could be wrong, but I also can't see a C4S coming in at under £10k in five years. Settling around 14 would be my ill-educated guess.

David911RSR

931 posts

79 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd July 2012 quote quote all
Smitters said:
Dave, I've annualised my costs so I can contrast the £ sum against income. Pence per mile feels irrelevant as some costs are mileage independant. What I'm looking for here is a realistic lump from my paypack to allocate each month. The finance figure is, again, annual outgoing and doesn't infer any %. In fact, it's irrelevant to all but me really!

Regards depreciation, this is my man-maths allowance. I'm ignoring it. I'm not trying to invest in a car and it's a long term prospect, so I plan to deal with the resale value when it arises and not worry about theoretical money disappearing. I could be wrong, but I also can't see a C4S coming in at under £10k in five years. Settling around 14 would be my ill-educated guess.
I would have thought the dealers are bidding approx 14k now for C4S's that are retailed at 21K.

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