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StuB

Original Poster:

5,539 posts

125 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd July 2012 quote quote all
A race bike for sale locally claims to have a Crescent supplied frame, with number, no v5, no history, etc.

My spidey senses are saying avoid, but is it possible to check a frame engine number for authenticity/stolen register without a v5?

Yes, the price does seem good.

Any advice welcomed.

bigshaun

84 posts

58 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd July 2012 quote quote all
Just thinking that perhaps Cresent will hold records of the frames they supply. Maybe a quick phone call to them might be worth while.

Cresent HQ: Tel: 01202 820 170

All the best

StuB

Original Poster:

5,539 posts

125 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd July 2012 quote quote all
Dropped Crescent a mail earlier today. Cheers.

btdk5

1,460 posts

76 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd July 2012 quote quote all
Isn't buying a bike without a V5 highly likely to be supporting bike theft??


LoonR1

19,386 posts

63 months

[news] 
Tuesday 3rd July 2012 quote quote all
Crescent wil confirm.

No frame number is actually a good thing, it's the defaced ones that are the problem. Although if you're worried (and you're right to be) then spend a long time looking at the frame where the frame number should be and look for anything that looks that it's been overpainted.

If it's any comfort my trackbike has a raceframe. I know it's history and have the original receipt from the previous owner. Any dodginess and it goes straight back to him for plod to investigate.
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Rich_AR

917 posts

90 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
btdk5 said:
Isn't buying a bike without a V5 highly likely to be supporting bike theft??
No. Quite a race bikes are built from brand new unregistered machines.

I have one.


LoonR1

19,386 posts

63 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
btdk5 said:
Isn't buying a bike without a V5 highly likely to be supporting bike theft??
No. As above there are genuine unregistered frames. Buying an alleged Cat B write or any other bike with a defaced frame number is likely to be supporting bike theft.

There is no legal reason for a stamped in frame number to be altered in any way.

StuB

Original Poster:

5,539 posts

125 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Crescent can check the frame number for me, so will try this route with the vendor, but the engine side of it also concerns me. Will try a local friendly plod PH'er to see if we can check a stolen register with the engine number.

Thanks for the advice.

Ruttager

2,000 posts

78 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
LoonR1 said:
ieirp said:
Really wanted to go to this one as I have had many a good night out in Austin, Texas (excluding the one where I met my other half of 15 years......
Step away from the bong.
Appears to be posting quotes from other peoples threads in response to new posts. Very odd. Just did a quick look at the other 6 posts from the user. confused

fergus

5,153 posts

161 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Rich_AR said:
btdk5 said:
Isn't buying a bike without a V5 highly likely to be supporting bike theft??
No. Quite a race bikes are built from brand new unregistered machines.

I have one.
So do I. Make sure you get a full set of receipts/paperwork to support whatever you buy though.

Remember, there are loads of other bikes out there, even if it takes a while to find the one you want. There are a lot of moody racebikes around (although less now than there used to be following ACU checks in the paddock, etc).

norfolkscooby

2,357 posts

41 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Iirc most crescent race frames are 'blank', as loon says it's generally a good sign if it's blank frame it's the dicky tampered with ones you want to avoid. Last thing you want is mr plod knocking on your door and taking your P&J away!

StuB

Original Poster:

5,539 posts

125 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
Vendor is supplying frame & engine numbers for me this lunchtime, so can check it's legit before I go & see it.

scorcher

2,370 posts

120 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
You can do a limited check of the VIN through the suzuki website........... http://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/extra/onroad/000081/

Also some general useful info here about checking engine /frame no.s etc ........ http://www.motoforum.net/index.php?showtopic=65722

btdk5

1,460 posts

76 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
fergus said:
Rich_AR said:
btdk5 said:
Isn't buying a bike without a V5 highly likely to be supporting bike theft??
No. Quite a race bikes are built from brand new unregistered machines.

I have one.
So do I. Make sure you get a full set of receipts/paperwork to support whatever you buy though.

Remember, there are loads of other bikes out there, even if it takes a while to find the one you want. There are a lot of moody racebikes around (although less now than there used to be following ACU checks in the paddock, etc).
Good to know.

Been avoiding the non V5 ad's on principal whilst poking around for a track bike to pick up in the winter.

Few tasty numbers I can add back to my list now.

StuB

Original Poster:

5,539 posts

125 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
So Crescent don't recognise the frame number quoted, though the engine number looks OK to them. Frame number I got was only 6 digits and Crescent expect to see 17!

The vendor claimed to have bought the bike from a race bike dealer, who I've contacted and he also can't validate the bike or previous sale to me.

Wont be pursuing this one any further, but I hear someone from Newcastle is going to view the bike tonight.

Thanks for the links & advice guys.

LoonR1

19,386 posts

63 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
btdk5 said:
Good to know.

Been avoiding the non V5 ad's on principal whilst poking around for a track bike to pick up in the winter.

Few tasty numbers I can add back to my list now.
You should still avoid any bike with a defaced frame number though. These are the dodgy ones as there is no genuine reason for one to be defaced.

Rich_AR

917 posts

90 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
StuB said:
So Crescent don't recognise the frame number quoted, though the engine number looks OK to them. Frame number I got was only 6 digits and Crescent expect to see 17!

The vendor claimed to have bought the bike from a race bike dealer, who I've contacted and he also can't validate the bike or previous sale to me.

Wont be pursuing this one any further, but I hear someone from Newcastle is going to view the bike tonight.

Thanks for the links & advice guys.
I'm sure all bikes from the 1980's on-wards should have a 17 digits VIN (unless it's some old bag of nails home brew)

Either it's a blank untouched frame or stamped 17 VIN.

The fact Crescent don't know about it, I'd stay clear.

Ray Luxury-Yacht

8,108 posts

102 months

[news] 
Wednesday 4th July 2012 quote quote all
When I was racing, I was lucky enough to have not had the necessity to buy a replacement frame due to a heinous crash that made it banana shaped!

I started in '99, and I bought two brand new R1's in 99 and then 2002 from normal 'high street' bike dealers (who wanted to support me a little with my racing) - I got very good, cheap deals (like 25% off retail price) of a bike supplied to me in a delivery crate, without PDI, warranty or registration etc.

They had frame and engine numbers on them though - but I had no problems selling them again to other racers, unregistered and without a V5. But obviously I had an original sales receipt from the supplying bike dealer.


Then in 2003 when I went for another new bike for the coming season, my usual dealer told me that the rules had changed, and by law he now had to register EVERYTHING with the DVLA and could no longer supply an anonymous, crated new bike.


No idea if this is true for frames only - but it might help you one way or the other...





Rich_AR

917 posts

90 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
When I was racing, I was lucky enough to have not had the necessity to buy a replacement frame due to a heinous crash that made it banana shaped!

I started in '99, and I bought two brand new R1's in 99 and then 2002 from normal 'high street' bike dealers (who wanted to support me a little with my racing) - I got very good, cheap deals (like 25% off retail price) of a bike supplied to me in a delivery crate, without PDI, warranty or registration etc.

They had frame and engine numbers on them though - but I had no problems selling them again to other racers, unregistered and without a V5. But obviously I had an original sales receipt from the supplying bike dealer.


Then in 2003 when I went for another new bike for the coming season, my usual dealer told me that the rules had changed, and by law he now had to register EVERYTHING with the DVLA and could no longer supply an anonymous, crated new bike.


No idea if this is true for frames only - but it might help you one way or the other...
My 2006 bike is not registered with the DVLA and was also supplied with a spare blank frame.

fergus

5,153 posts

161 months

[news] 
Thursday 5th July 2012 quote quote all
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
When I was racing, I was lucky enough to have not had the necessity to buy a replacement frame due to a heinous crash that made it banana shaped!

I started in '99, and I bought two brand new R1's in 99 and then 2002 from normal 'high street' bike dealers (who wanted to support me a little with my racing) - I got very good, cheap deals (like 25% off retail price) of a bike supplied to me in a delivery crate, without PDI, warranty or registration etc.

They had frame and engine numbers on them though - but I had no problems selling them again to other racers, unregistered and without a V5. But obviously I had an original sales receipt from the supplying bike dealer.

Then in 2003 when I went for another new bike for the coming season, my usual dealer told me that the rules had changed, and by law he now had to register EVERYTHING with the DVLA and could no longer supply an anonymous, crated new bike.
I think I bike can only be registered with the DVLA once VAT has been paid?

My bike was dealer supplied, but for non road use, so got a massive discount and paid no VAT. Has all numbers intact, but no V5.
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