Setting up a Go-Kart Circuit
Discussion
Help please.
I've got a suitable site with buildings already, which we use for warehousing currently but with more leisure facilities being made available to folk in the area, I'm just wondering if now might be the right time to build a commercial Go-Kart circuit on our site just on the outskirts of Widnes.
I know that there are other circuits in Warrington, Ellesmere Port and the major cities but are there consultants out there who can predict likely viability and come up with a design to make any new circuit a crowd puller?
If we were to go down this route, I would want to do it properly.
I've got a suitable site with buildings already, which we use for warehousing currently but with more leisure facilities being made available to folk in the area, I'm just wondering if now might be the right time to build a commercial Go-Kart circuit on our site just on the outskirts of Widnes.
I know that there are other circuits in Warrington, Ellesmere Port and the major cities but are there consultants out there who can predict likely viability and come up with a design to make any new circuit a crowd puller?
If we were to go down this route, I would want to do it properly.
Hello David,
Could I recommend taking a look at both Apex Design and Sports & Leisure Developments Ltd links below?
http://sportsandleisuredevelopments.com/
http://www.apexcircuitdesign.co.uk/projects/motors...
Regards,
Andrew
Could I recommend taking a look at both Apex Design and Sports & Leisure Developments Ltd links below?
http://sportsandleisuredevelopments.com/
http://www.apexcircuitdesign.co.uk/projects/motors...
Regards,
Andrew
I looked at doing this a few years back with a client who had a decent bit of land in Liverpool.
As with anything, location is key. You don't want people to have to drive miles and miles to get to the venue (or if they do, make the venue well worth the effort - see Buckmore Park for more information!).
Corporate Bookings are often where the margins are so you need to provide smart facilities (changing, showers, function room, AV equipment, etc). Companies wont take their clients to ramshackle venues no matter how good the track and carts are. For the same reason, you need plenty of spare karts, spares, mechanics, etc. It's not a good thing to have to deny people the opportunity to race because some numpty in the morning totalled 5 karts (which can and does happen - often).
Something that we secured was some government funding for a bit of community support stuff - providing opportunities for disadvantaged kids or underage TWOCers in an attempt to bring them back on the straight and narrow.
Things to consider:
Noise - if you're near a residential area, expect planning objections and even if not, the local council may impose limits and curfews anyway.
Insurance - Not cheap but essential
Marketing - Whatever you have in mind to spend on this, times it by 4 and you'll be about a quarter of way there
As for circuit design, we had the services of a former pro-racing driver and a couple of senior karters who all said that the biggest problem with most arrive and drive type operations is the desire to put in a lengthy track in the smallest space meaning that it was near impossible to get a good, flowing track and instead, it was all stupidly tight hairpins and 90 degree corners and hardly any straight. Better to have a shorter but faster track with just two or three overtaking spots.
Any decent accountant should be able to help you run the numbers and feasibility assessment.
We created a simple formula that divided the total available track time per month into 15 minute segments times the number of karts allowed on track at any one time and from this, worked out how many 15 min sessions we needed to sell to cover costs. On paper, it was very doable. The only reason we didn't was that the bloke who had the land got an offer from a property developer that was an even better deal for him.
Good luck!
As with anything, location is key. You don't want people to have to drive miles and miles to get to the venue (or if they do, make the venue well worth the effort - see Buckmore Park for more information!).
Corporate Bookings are often where the margins are so you need to provide smart facilities (changing, showers, function room, AV equipment, etc). Companies wont take their clients to ramshackle venues no matter how good the track and carts are. For the same reason, you need plenty of spare karts, spares, mechanics, etc. It's not a good thing to have to deny people the opportunity to race because some numpty in the morning totalled 5 karts (which can and does happen - often).
Something that we secured was some government funding for a bit of community support stuff - providing opportunities for disadvantaged kids or underage TWOCers in an attempt to bring them back on the straight and narrow.
Things to consider:
Noise - if you're near a residential area, expect planning objections and even if not, the local council may impose limits and curfews anyway.
Insurance - Not cheap but essential
Marketing - Whatever you have in mind to spend on this, times it by 4 and you'll be about a quarter of way there
As for circuit design, we had the services of a former pro-racing driver and a couple of senior karters who all said that the biggest problem with most arrive and drive type operations is the desire to put in a lengthy track in the smallest space meaning that it was near impossible to get a good, flowing track and instead, it was all stupidly tight hairpins and 90 degree corners and hardly any straight. Better to have a shorter but faster track with just two or three overtaking spots.
Any decent accountant should be able to help you run the numbers and feasibility assessment.
We created a simple formula that divided the total available track time per month into 15 minute segments times the number of karts allowed on track at any one time and from this, worked out how many 15 min sessions we needed to sell to cover costs. On paper, it was very doable. The only reason we didn't was that the bloke who had the land got an offer from a property developer that was an even better deal for him.
Good luck!
That really all makes very interesting reading so thank you for your views and advice.
We are just on the outskirts of Widnes and it is an industrial area, so noise should not be an issue, although I do need to consider my other tenants.
The shed which I have in mind is about 30,000 sq.ft. It's an old aircraft hangar single span unit 122 x 240 ft and an eaves height of 29 ft, so there is room to put in both a mezzanine viewing / catering platform and a raised section of the track.
Showers and toilets are not an issue either.
I've got a great accountant who can help me on this.
Thanks again for your comments / advice.
The Apex website raises another question really.
Might it be an idea to have both an indoor circuit and and outside off road one or do you think folk would like an interior buggy type track instead of the regular Kart track?
A buggy track would be different but would it be as popular as Karts?
We are just on the outskirts of Widnes and it is an industrial area, so noise should not be an issue, although I do need to consider my other tenants.
The shed which I have in mind is about 30,000 sq.ft. It's an old aircraft hangar single span unit 122 x 240 ft and an eaves height of 29 ft, so there is room to put in both a mezzanine viewing / catering platform and a raised section of the track.
Showers and toilets are not an issue either.
I've got a great accountant who can help me on this.
Thanks again for your comments / advice.
The Apex website raises another question really.
Might it be an idea to have both an indoor circuit and and outside off road one or do you think folk would like an interior buggy type track instead of the regular Kart track?
A buggy track would be different but would it be as popular as Karts?
Edited by Davel on Wednesday 18th July 13:39
few thoughts
another thing to consider is to target audiences to allow all day, every day usages, without clashing for same spot.
Joe Public and his mates will want nights and weekends, so the corporate market during the day, potentially monday to friday helps there.
if the circuits big enough/suitable, hire to cycling clubs as well to keep track in use (you are only earning when its being used!)
cafe or eatery, good mark up on cans of pop, mars bars and crisps, and more if you do hot food too.
Junior track seperately, start 'em young!
another thing to consider is to target audiences to allow all day, every day usages, without clashing for same spot.
Joe Public and his mates will want nights and weekends, so the corporate market during the day, potentially monday to friday helps there.
if the circuits big enough/suitable, hire to cycling clubs as well to keep track in use (you are only earning when its being used!)
cafe or eatery, good mark up on cans of pop, mars bars and crisps, and more if you do hot food too.
Junior track seperately, start 'em young!
Davel said:
Might it be an idea to have both an indoor circuit and and outside off road one or do you think folk would like an interior buggy type track instead of the regular Kart track?
A buggy track would be different but would it be as popular as Karts?
To start with, I'd stick to one of the two formats. You'll get more custom with a standard road track so this will generate some decent early income which you can then reinvest in an off road track later on and so keep interest high amongst regular customers.A buggy track would be different but would it be as popular as Karts?
Edited by Davel on Wednesday 18th July 13:39
TrackTalentUK said:
Hello David,
Could I recommend taking a look at both Apex Design and Sports & Leisure Developments Ltd links below?
http://sportsandleisuredevelopments.com/
http://www.apexcircuitdesign.co.uk/projects/motors...
Regards,
Andrew
Could I recommend taking a look at both Apex Design and Sports & Leisure Developments Ltd links below?
http://sportsandleisuredevelopments.com/
http://www.apexcircuitdesign.co.uk/projects/motors...
Regards,
Andrew
Was going to recommend speaking to Apex if you're serious about the scheme.
Look at your competitors and think of what else you can bring to the market that they don't offer? USP and Niches here! As a keen karter I would like a quick TKM or Rotax arrive & drive kart to race, Daytona have them on their fleet based in the South of England. Also look into how Club100 is run, prob the best arrive and drive series in the UK.
CNHSS1 said:
few thoughts
hire to cycling clubs as well to keep track in use (you are only earning when its being used!)
I've never been to a kart track and thought "I'd like to cycle round there". Do any kart tracks do this? I think they'd be too tight, too dangerous, too many crashes.hire to cycling clubs as well to keep track in use (you are only earning when its being used!)
I'm sure it would need Planning or Change of Use etc and, if we go further on this, we'd talk to the Council first anyway.
My only concerns are viability and insurance, bearing in mind the current claims culture for stupid little incidents etc.
If we were to do this, I would want it to be a great little venue.
Thanks again all!
My only concerns are viability and insurance, bearing in mind the current claims culture for stupid little incidents etc.
If we were to do this, I would want it to be a great little venue.
Thanks again all!
No experience in the field, but when our local Focus shop closed I had images in my head of transforming it into a go kart track.
I reckoned you could have an indoor track and an outdoor track, and with a bit of planning, set it up so that by moving a couple of barriers and opening some big doors, combine the two into a large grand prix circuit taking in both tracks.
Would give flexibility in being able to cater for two small parties, or a single big event.
I reckoned you could have an indoor track and an outdoor track, and with a bit of planning, set it up so that by moving a couple of barriers and opening some big doors, combine the two into a large grand prix circuit taking in both tracks.
Would give flexibility in being able to cater for two small parties, or a single big event.
Something I forgot to mention on my earlier reply that you'd do well to look into is the regulations on CO2 emissions in enclosed spaces. This was flagged up when we were looking into this. The HS&E were looking at a number of incidents at indoor tracks where people had fallen ill due to the exhaust fumes and as I recall, were considering imposing some directive for air extraction and air quality. I have no idea if this was ever followed through and obviously is not relevant if you go the outdoor route.
Is it worth considering having separate indoor and outdoor circuits, designed so they could be joined together to make one long endurance style circuit?
Or, as suggested, start with just the indoor (to gain regular income) but have it designed so it could be joined to an outdoor circuit in the future.
Thanks,
Scott
Or, as suggested, start with just the indoor (to gain regular income) but have it designed so it could be joined to an outdoor circuit in the future.
Thanks,
Scott
Well we have progressed this as far as we can, for our existing site, where we had the perfect building.
We seemed to satisfy all of the issues raised by a pre-app to the local Council, except the one where they were not prepared to change the use of the building to leisure, when the rest of the site is industrial.
Owning an existing building would have helped greatly but we are now considering housing it somewhere else.
Electric Karts are an option but unlikely at present.
Cheers All!
We seemed to satisfy all of the issues raised by a pre-app to the local Council, except the one where they were not prepared to change the use of the building to leisure, when the rest of the site is industrial.
Owning an existing building would have helped greatly but we are now considering housing it somewhere else.
Electric Karts are an option but unlikely at present.
Cheers All!
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