F430 - F1 clutch problems

[911Thrasher]

posting for a friend really - but all advice taken: he runs a F430, spider admitelly not the smoothest out there...loves to get those pipes cracking

1. Any way the clutch starting slipping from 1st to 4th lately, i.e. when pulling up to 2nd the car would go into neutral and then jump to 4th

update: apparently clutch showing 90% usage now...when it was 25% 1,000miles ago

2. The car went to HRO for service and apparently the manifolds are cracked; should he change them and for what?

The car is a 55 (end 2005) and has now 12,500miles on it

Both problems are independent

Any ideas, suggestions on both point?

Edited by 911Thrasher on Tuesday 24th July 14:12

Edited by 911Thrasher on Tuesday 24th July 14:23

[Mario149]

Ref the manifolds, I believe they're a known weak point like on the 355. Certainly for the latter they're almost considered a consumable if you refit Ferrari ones. There is a company (I forget their name but someone here might remember!) who refurb 355 manifolds to a standard whereby they never crack again for about £700 each (I think that's how much I paid), I would say there's a fighting chance they'd do 430 ones too. If so, that's the way I would go

[UH-Matt]

What year is the car? I would certainly try and fight for a goodwill swap on the manifolds, failing that just get Capristo ones or something rather than Ferrari ones.

Is the clutch also gone?

[Mario149]

UH-Matt said:

What year is the car? I would certainly try and fight for a goodwill swap on the manifolds, failing that just get Capristo ones or something rather than Ferrari ones.

Is the clutch also gone?

It's a 55 plate like he said in his original post I think you may struggle with goodwill unless he's recently bought it from a main dealer? But worth a try anyway, worst they can say is no!

[Siy]

QV London can repair them

[ninja_eli]

The manifolds are a known weak point on the F430. He definitely needs to change them, but he should get a second opinion as it could be the gasket rather than the manifold. On mine it was the manifold and I was told that if it goes on for a while, bits of the manifold/gasket go back into the engine causing further damage.

Regarding the clutch, is he sure it is definitely worn? You say slipping but jumping from 2nd to neutral is NOT clutch slip? It sounds similar to what my car used to do, except mine would also lurch forward unexpected aswell as blink the last gear it was in, hold revs at 4000rpm but not actually go anywhere.

They could never pin point the issue, it seemed like an electronic issue but Ferrari, two years after initially reporting it, couldn't fix it and in the end said it was a worn clutch. SD3 readout confirmed clutch on purchase was 10% and on selling was 50% worn. It was blatantly not a worn clutch.

I ended up recording footage of everytime the car would breakdown (basically everytime it would be used) and just got fed up with it, and then gave up on it.

I think there is some unresolved part of the software on these cars that makes them behave odd (my ecu recorded an unknown error code that had to be reported to Ferrari in Italy to provide an answer to what the problem was).

Ferrari were not interested in resolving the car and despite having another years worth of warranty I knew there was no point persevering with this car. If he gets a goodwill gesture on the manifolds he's done well, they are not cheap. This is not a car I would want to own outside of warranty if you care about it running properly and intend to use it much. It was my second F430 and both had a plethora of problems, albeit different ones!

I don't think it is the result of his driving. It's a supposed performance car!

[UH-Matt]

Were your two also older cars (05/06)?

I have owned a lot of cars and so far (touch wood) my 15 months of F430 ownership have been the most fault free motoring I have ever had. Mines a September 2007 car though, its under warranty but unfortunately the best I have had no need for any claims! Did get a new front headlight as I could see some water had "got in".

ninja_eli said:

The manifolds are a known weak point on the F430. He definitely needs to change them, but he should get a second opinion as it could be the gasket rather than the manifold. On mine it was the manifold and I was told that if it goes on for a while, bits of the manifold/gasket go back into the engine causing further damage.

Regarding the clutch, is he sure it is definitely worn? You say slipping but jumping from 2nd to neutral is NOT clutch slip? It sounds similar to what my car used to do, except mine would also lurch forward unexpected aswell as blink the last gear it was in, hold revs at 4000rpm but not actually go anywhere.

They could never pin point the issue, it seemed like an electronic issue but Ferrari, two years after initially reporting it, couldn't fix it and in the end said it was a worn clutch. SD3 readout confirmed clutch on purchase was 10% and on selling was 50% worn. It was blatantly not a worn clutch.

I ended up recording footage of everytime the car would breakdown (basically everytime it would be used) and just got fed up with it, and then gave up on it.

I think there is some unresolved part of the software on these cars that makes them behave odd (my ecu recorded an unknown error code that had to be reported to Ferrari in Italy to provide an answer to what the problem was).

Ferrari were not interested in resolving the car and despite having another years worth of warranty I knew there was no point persevering with this car. If he gets a goodwill gesture on the manifolds he's done well, they are not cheap. This is not a car I would want to own outside of warranty if you care about it running properly and intend to use it much. It was my second F430 and both had a plethora of problems, albeit different ones!

I don't think it is the result of his driving. It's a supposed performance car!

[RevHappy]

I think they made a lot of small changes over the production time of the 430, the later ones seem to be a lot less problematic. Any warrenty claims on ours were for small cosmetic and fitting faults more than anything mech based.
Manifolds seem to be a weak point on 355, 360, 430 there doesn't seem to be any tell with them other than a keen ear. Don't think that a Ferrari replacement is a long term fix as they have been known to fail second time around.

[rubiksdude]

My 08 430 had the manifolds changed 3 times under warranty by HR Owen. Had no noticeable ill effects before the change & did wonder if it's a HRO money spinner somehow?

Also had problems selecting correct gear & clutch release bearing replaced under warranty. Ran the clutch to 90% wear with no problems, no slippage after that.

In 3 years of ownership & 30,000 miles no other issues apart from a replaced battery.

[ninja_eli]

UH-Matt said:

Were your two also older cars (05/06)?

I have owned a lot of cars and so far (touch wood) my 15 months of F430 ownership have been the most fault free motoring I have ever had. Mines a September 2007 car though, its under warranty but unfortunately the best I have had no need for any claims! Did get a new front headlight as I could see some water had "got in".

First one registered June 2005 and the second registered Oct 2008. Both spiders, both F1. Later car had the ceramics.

The earlier one had exhaust fall off twice. The later one had exhaust changed once but manifolds failed. In all, more than 20 items changed under warranty on both cars, and the later one never resolved fully.

I can live with the fragility of these Ferraris, this last one was my 5th one and all have been somewhat fragile. But Ferrari's inability AND unwillingness to resolve a dangerous issue was just unbearable this time.

Up against the likes of Porsche, they really deserve their reputation for being fragile.

[LukeyLikey]

I have an 06 Spider. I had the same issue early into ownership - Ferrari Official dealer near to me said it was clutch - it wasn't. I returned it to supplying independent dealer who changed the clutch FOC on the word of the official dealer and rather irately discovered the old clutch was fine.

The problem was easily fixed by some adjustments to the selector mechanism, and has been fine for 4,000 miles since. In fact the car has been reliable and has not let me down or even come close to it.

I did change manifolds for the Capristo ones. DO IT is all I can say. It genuinely transforms the car - more torque everywhere and much, much better sound. (Quite expensive though)

[RevHappy]

These cars seem very hit and miss, although regular use and a good one always helps

[Jasper Gilder]

Had a similar problem on a client's car on tour recently. The fix was interesting. Disconnect the battery and leave it for 15 minutes to purge the electrics, then reconnect and start it and let it tick over to re set itself. A car that would not pull away, go into reverse or change gear properly was suddenly returned to health and didn't do it again.....

[andrew]

Jasper Gilder said:

Had a similar problem on a client's car on tour recently. The fix was interesting. Disconnect the battery and leave it for 15 minutes to purge the electrics, then reconnect and start it and let it tick over to re set itself. A car that would not pull away, go into reverse or change gear properly was suddenly returned to health and didn't do it again.....

aha ! the old <control><alt><delete> trick

i had reason to disconnect the battery from the lambo, and it wouldn't then recognise the keys ! ( easily fixed tbh though )

[Cerbieherts]

Qv will repair the manifolds but the factory manifolds are rubbish. I'd go for the Capristo replacements, they are superb. As for the clutch, there are several things that could cause it. The earlier cars had issues with the software on the control units, they are flash-programmable so a dealer or specialist with an sd3 and the right porting files can update it. Also, many cars have not been setup right. Just altering the clutch kiss point (pis) is not the right way to set them, and this causes excessive slip. They should be set using the torque transmittability curve method. Many cars are not set right at the time the clutch is replaced, and lots don't bother to replace the flywheel. I have also come across sticking slave seals which cause the sensor to give a false wear reading. It is also important to remember that the wear % is far from accurate. It is merely an extrapolated figure deduced by what figure has been set at clutch change time versus how far a magnet moves across a sensor during operation. A properly set up clutch with decent level of software on a well driven car should get pretty much 30k between changes.

[bromers2]

RevHappy said:

I think they made a lot of small changes over the production time of the 430, the later ones seem to be a lot less problematic. Any warrenty claims on ours were for small cosmetic and fitting faults more than anything mech based.
Manifolds seem to be a weak point on 355, 360, 430 there doesn't seem to be any tell with them other than a keen ear. Don't think that a Ferrari replacement is a long term fix as they have been known to fail second time around.

Not heard of any problems with the 360 manifolds - 355 and 430 yes.

[bromers2]

For the clutch wear to jump so much in such a small time period would suggest a problem. Try the basic reset as above, if that doesn't work then try the 're-learn' for the clutch using the SDX machine - brilliant to watch/hear the car go through the process. (Had my CS done a couple of weeks ago and the gear changes are so much smoother - should be done very year IMO)

[F355GTS]

bromers2 said:

For the clutch wear to jump so much in such a small time period would suggest a problem. Try the basic reset as above, if that doesn't work then try the 're-learn' for the clutch using the SDX machine - brilliant to watch/hear the car go through the process. (Had my CS done a couple of weeks ago and the gear changes are so much smoother - should be done very year IMO)

or he's used launch control 2 or 3 times

[Cerbieherts]

bromers2 said:

For the clutch wear to jump so much in such a small time period would suggest a problem. Try the basic reset as above, if that doesn't work then try the 're-learn' for the clutch using the SDX machine - brilliant to watch/hear the car go through the process. (Had my CS done a couple of weeks ago and the gear changes are so much smoother - should be done very year IMO)

Switching off the power won't reset anything o the F1 gearbox. All it will do is loose the adaptive values on the engine. As you rightly say though, a huge incremental jump in wear% suggests a problem.

[Akajak]

slightly! off topic - does anyone know the maximum clutch wear for an approved used car before it is replaced