Modern civil aircraft *yawn*
Discussion
Please forgive me making a negative post, but sitting in my garden this morning watching various nondescript things flying (quietly) overhead got me to pondering how modern Aircraft, like cars have become so bland, 'white goods'-like. When I were a lad I could name everything, quite often by the rackit it made; Viscounts, Vanguards, Britannias, not to mention Comets, Caravelles, VC10's etc. Anyone feel the same?
The design of airliners has matured into a fairly standard layout with just the odd departure from this "standard".
And, as has been pointed out, there were far more individual manufacturers up until the late 1970s by which time some had simply gone out of business or been swallowed up in mergers -
Boeing
Douglas
Lockheed
Convair
Martin
Handley Page
Avro
Vickers
De Havilland
Bristol
Short Brothers
Dassault
Sud Aviation
Tupolev
Antonov
Ilyushin
SAAB
And, as has been pointed out, there were far more individual manufacturers up until the late 1970s by which time some had simply gone out of business or been swallowed up in mergers -
Boeing
Douglas
Lockheed
Convair
Martin
Handley Page
Avro
Vickers
De Havilland
Bristol
Short Brothers
Dassault
Sud Aviation
Tupolev
Antonov
Ilyushin
SAAB
I think the "blandness" actually stems from the fact that it is so insanely expensive to certify an entirely new aircraft that the easiest thing to do is to improve a design that already exists to some extent, and like Eric says many aircraft manufacturers have joined forces to take advantage of various synergies.
Same as cars - things refine to the most efficient packaging and engines. "Soul" often moves away from optimum efficiency, which the airlines ain't in to.
Having said that, I was very excited to see an A380 up close. Initially I was disappointed until I saw a scale reference close by and you realise how bloody huge it is. I'll also be very excited to see the dreamliner in the flesh as it appears to be fundamentally different. I've been in the hanger it's going to be built in and it's a very,very impressive place.
And think if you saw a 747 for the first time today how different is would look.
Now that I live about a mile away from the initial glide slope of Stansted, I can see a fair amount of variety in aircraft styles (but thankfully not hear too much, although it's noticeable when the odd 747 or MD1-11 lands).
Having said that, I was very excited to see an A380 up close. Initially I was disappointed until I saw a scale reference close by and you realise how bloody huge it is. I'll also be very excited to see the dreamliner in the flesh as it appears to be fundamentally different. I've been in the hanger it's going to be built in and it's a very,very impressive place.
And think if you saw a 747 for the first time today how different is would look.
Now that I live about a mile away from the initial glide slope of Stansted, I can see a fair amount of variety in aircraft styles (but thankfully not hear too much, although it's noticeable when the odd 747 or MD1-11 lands).
Quite happy where I live. I get the traffic from LBA climbing out at about 6,000 ft. 737: Noisy. A320: Noisy, but in a different way to the 737. 757: Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A310: Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. We used to get the occasional visit from Concorde too. Rooooooooooaaaaaaaaaar + car alarms 
I guess at the larger airports you get the bigger (wealthier) airlines with newer planes which are quieter and more generic sounding.
I guess at the larger airports you get the bigger (wealthier) airlines with newer planes which are quieter and more generic sounding.
Most airliners these days have pretty similar noise levels. The 787 seems definitely quiter but it's not that common at the moment as deliveries have just started.
The airliners which will stand out noise wise are the few older low-bypass fan powered aircraft - mostly Boeing 737-200s or members of the DC-9 family - and some older Russian stuff, such as Tu-134s and 154s.
I always thought that, apart from Concorde, the noisiest airliner was the Trident (think a BAC 1-11 with one extra engine - or even one and ahalf extra engines if you are talking Trident 3B).
The airliners which will stand out noise wise are the few older low-bypass fan powered aircraft - mostly Boeing 737-200s or members of the DC-9 family - and some older Russian stuff, such as Tu-134s and 154s.
I always thought that, apart from Concorde, the noisiest airliner was the Trident (think a BAC 1-11 with one extra engine - or even one and ahalf extra engines if you are talking Trident 3B).
Eric Mc said:
Most airliners these days have pretty similar noise levels. The 787 seems definitely quiter but it's not that common at the moment as deliveries have just started.
The airliners which will stand out noise wise are the few older low-bypass fan powered aircraft - mostly Boeing 737-200s or members of the DC-9 family - and some older Russian stuff, such as Tu-134s and 154s.
I always thought that, apart from Concorde, the noisiest airliner was the Trident (think a BAC 1-11 with one extra engine - or even one and ahalf extra engines if you are talking Trident 3B).
what aobut the VC 10 given it was deliberately over engined for 'hot and high' conditions ion 'empire' routes to East and Seth EffricaThe airliners which will stand out noise wise are the few older low-bypass fan powered aircraft - mostly Boeing 737-200s or members of the DC-9 family - and some older Russian stuff, such as Tu-134s and 154s.
I always thought that, apart from Concorde, the noisiest airliner was the Trident (think a BAC 1-11 with one extra engine - or even one and ahalf extra engines if you are talking Trident 3B).
Definately agree with OP. Perhaps it doesn't help that you can undertake a 'plane journey these days without ever seeing the aircraft from the outside!
I recall the 'concourse' at Cardiff airport being at ground level so anything bigger than a Dakota would pass a wing OVER the viewing public to park at the main stands. For me the highlight of the Wales France international at the old Arms Park was not the game but the chartered Air France Connie which would make a guest appearance at Rhoose.
I recall the 'concourse' at Cardiff airport being at ground level so anything bigger than a Dakota would pass a wing OVER the viewing public to park at the main stands. For me the highlight of the Wales France international at the old Arms Park was not the game but the chartered Air France Connie which would make a guest appearance at Rhoose.
Back in the 90s I was visiting Crieff in Perthshire. Heard the distinctive howly warble of some Rolls Royce Conways and saw a RAF VC10K tooling towards me over the fields at somewhat less than the usual altitude it would reach on the tanker towlines! It was perhaps 1000' agl. Approaching the town on came the power and the jet climbed out from low-level as it passed overhead chucking smoke out the back and making the most glorious racket.
I always wondered what had been put on the Squadron auth sheet, and whether they'd actually booked into the low-flying system for the sortie!
I'm old and lucky enough to have flown as pax on old things such as Comet4, Trident, BAC 1-11, DC8, DC9, B727... And let's face it, even the 757 is an old aeroplane now! Been and gone in BA service.
Brooklands is a great place to look round old British airliners. Most are open to visitors and have ground-power applied for cockpit lights etc. Some are even still ground-run.
I always wondered what had been put on the Squadron auth sheet, and whether they'd actually booked into the low-flying system for the sortie!
I'm old and lucky enough to have flown as pax on old things such as Comet4, Trident, BAC 1-11, DC8, DC9, B727... And let's face it, even the 757 is an old aeroplane now! Been and gone in BA service.
Brooklands is a great place to look round old British airliners. Most are open to visitors and have ground-power applied for cockpit lights etc. Some are even still ground-run.
TiMopar said:
When I were a lad I could name everything
maybe a closer look -http://taxi.ba.com/
try yer postcde in there !
mph1977 said:
Eric Mc said:
Most airliners these days have pretty similar noise levels. The 787 seems definitely quiter but it's not that common at the moment as deliveries have just started.
The airliners which will stand out noise wise are the few older low-bypass fan powered aircraft - mostly Boeing 737-200s or members of the DC-9 family - and some older Russian stuff, such as Tu-134s and 154s.
I always thought that, apart from Concorde, the noisiest airliner was the Trident (think a BAC 1-11 with one extra engine - or even one and ahalf extra engines if you are talking Trident 3B).
what aobut the VC 10 given it was deliberately over engined for 'hot and high' conditions ion 'empire' routes to East and Seth EffricaThe airliners which will stand out noise wise are the few older low-bypass fan powered aircraft - mostly Boeing 737-200s or members of the DC-9 family - and some older Russian stuff, such as Tu-134s and 154s.
I always thought that, apart from Concorde, the noisiest airliner was the Trident (think a BAC 1-11 with one extra engine - or even one and ahalf extra engines if you are talking Trident 3B).
DeadMeat_UK said:
Same as cars - things refine to the most efficient packaging and engines. "Soul" often moves away from optimum efficiency, which the airlines ain't in to.
Yep - and increasingly demanding environmental regs too, just as with cars....The VC-10 is my favourite plane, and (it was before my time) AFAIK was marketed as being one of the fastest airliners in the sky at the time - hardly anyone gives a s
t any more about what plane they're flying on (flew on EJ's 'Iron Maiden' 757 2 years ago and I think I was the only person to notice it wasn't an A3xx!) - let alone it's performance!Absolutely - sometimes I wonder what it would have been like to experience jet flight in the 'golden age' 50s/ 60s... Other times I'm quite in awe of the fact that I almost take for granted 2-3 (fairly inexpensive) foreign holidays a year - a couple of decades ago the flight price alone would dictated one long break rather than several short trips to explore different places!
52classic said:
Definately agree with OP. Perhaps it doesn't help that you can undertake a 'plane journey these days without ever seeing the aircraft from the outside!
I recall the 'concourse' at Cardiff airport being at ground level so anything bigger than a Dakota would pass a wing OVER the viewing public to park at the main stands. For me the highlight of the Wales France international at the old Arms Park was not the game but the chartered Air France Connie which would make a guest appearance at Rhoose.
Thanks for some great replies to an admittedly dowmbeat post! One other feature I miss 'from the old days' is the smell of aviation fuel at airports....I recall the 'concourse' at Cardiff airport being at ground level so anything bigger than a Dakota would pass a wing OVER the viewing public to park at the main stands. For me the highlight of the Wales France international at the old Arms Park was not the game but the chartered Air France Connie which would make a guest appearance at Rhoose.
TiMopar said:
Thanks for some great replies to an admittedly dowmbeat post! One other feature I miss 'from the old days' is the smell of aviation fuel at airports....
Come and visit me then - we often get the waft of jet fuel particularly after a spot or two of rain.The.BBQ lights like a charm though
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