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69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
I'm so fed up with sanding & painting doors & frames

I got caught out with the VOC 2010 paints that contrary to their status as 'white gloss' all these newly formulated oil based paints yellowed at an alarming rate.

First was Wickes gloss that yellowed in approx 6 weeks total waste of time, decided to do some research & opted for Leyland water-based white but whilst the paint stays white the application leaves poor brush results this is with using correct synthetic fine paint brushes, also tried the roller method & the roller & quick brush over method still results are not what I want.

I now knew that all the VOC2010 white paints are ste decided to try Leyland Satinwood VOC2010 I know this paint has a more matt finish but i gave it ago, it truly is a lovely flowing paint & dries beautifully & over a short time starts to turn more matt finish problem is yet again that after approx 16 weeks also starts yellowing, more so in my dark hall (white emulsion walls) these oil paints need daylight to help keep the bleaching effect.

I was going to use Dulux Gloss but at the time their paint was also crap, it was on Watchdog telly program where they admitted as such, this is the same for most paint manufacturers who have had to reduce VOC's because of the EU.

Now Dulux have a fairly new high gloss trade white that they reckon has been reformulated & they reckon that its better that their pre 2010 paint for yellowing.

Has anyone used it in the last 6~12 months & how is it holding up to yellowing especially if in a fairly dark area.

Or should I turn my doors/frames & skirting white-work Gloss Grey?

miniman

17,284 posts

150 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Sadly I expect many things will go this way; kind to fluffy animals but otherwise st.

Sir Bagalot

3,241 posts

69 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
I've done plenty of research into this as I got caught too.

I used to use Crown non drip gloss. You could effectively slap it on and as long as you used decent brushes you ended up with a mirror like finish.

My research led me to the following;

Oil based gloss is finished. However I did read that one decorator used to buy Duluz White Gloss and then proceed to the paint mixing counter and get them to put in 1ml per 1000ml of blue, and mix. He said it worked but the paint was only slightly off white but the naked eye wouldn't know it.

I now use Johnstones Aqua White Gloss with the necessary brush. Is it as good as finish? No. Does it stay white? Oh yes.

Jimboka

3,873 posts

92 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Not gloss - but i use Dulux Trade diamond satinwood. Pricey at £30+ for 2.5l, but is brilliant white after 2 years. Gloss used to yellow like yours...

Pooky67

558 posts

47 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Just used Dulux Trade Diamond Eggshell. Little natural light in our stairway so went for this as it's waterbased. Advice given to us was to use a damp synthetic brush and wipe the surface with a damp sponge. Slap the paint on and don't be tempted to go over areas repeatedly. It dries fairly fast so just do one layer then let it dry before reapplying. We did our three story stairwell, kitchen, cloakroom and six doors and were very happy with the results. After the previous oil based eggshell had yellowed after a few months.
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69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Tuesday 24th July 2012 quote quote all
Sir Bagalot, just done some googling on that Johnsons water-based gloss, does seem to be the best so far in the Water-based gloss stakes. Noted FLOETROL seems to be an additive a lot of pro decorators add to these water-based paints.

The other problem with using satinwoods is how tough the paint is when cured, its very tough & have found sanding is very hard work compared to keying oil based gloss. The leyland oil based satinwood takes at least 16 hours to dry per coat which is what i did, absolutely loved painting it on; such a shame its yellowed so quickly.


Edited by 69 coupe on Tuesday 24th July 22:32

69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
Have now had a go with the Johnstones aqua waterbased gloss & aqua undercoat, I tried it on a half-door that goes under the stairwell. This door was painted approx 3 months ago with Leyland Satin white voc2010. I removed the door & sanded on the top of some tressels.

Flatted the satin white & couldn't believe how yellow that paint had turned in such a short period, the sanding dust resembled yellow custard powder.

On one side of the door I would use Johnstones Aqua undercoat followed by a denib & one coat of Johnstones Gloss the other side I will just sand & Gloss. The undercoat flowed on lovely very similar to any traditional undercoat paint, it went touch dry in 2 hours but followed manufacturers instruction of recoatable in 4hr then it gave a quick denib. Now for the gloss; opened the can & gave it a stir,paint certainly looked like an oil based paint but no real smell. Washed my stirrer in water which was lovely. I damp ragged the panel & then dried off with cloth, wetted my Harris Evolution synthetic brush & squeezed dry as much as possible.

The paint flowed on lovely very very similar to oil based, not like some of the water-based paints that are gel like the paint is quite thin & runs on verticals seem very possible the good thing is the paint is controllable much longer than the other waterbased I've used so should be able to fix any slight runs. Once I had the small door painted i then 'layed off' in one direction, the brush marks are slightly noticeable the finer the brush the better the lay off.
After 4 hours the paint was dry & kept the finish, I think this is the best by far finish I have done with waterbased ( i've had worst with some normal glosses). I'm very happy with the one undercoat & one coat gloss just hope it stays white over the coming months/year/s.

Did the other side but without the undercoat, at first I could see the yellow of the previous paint come through, but when layed off it was fine & felt & looked no different than with the UC system, I'm going to give this side another coat of gloss just to see the difference. May buy a 'Purdy Monarch Elite' but to be honest the finish is just fine so far.

Edited by 69 coupe on Monday 30th July 14:49

Simpo Two

60,695 posts

153 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
69 coupe said:
May buy a 'Purdy Monarch Elite'
Ah, a shotgun effect smile

69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Monday 30th July 2012 quote quote all
Simpo Two said:
Ah, a shotgun effect smile
Yep, hit it with everything smile

Did the second top coat paint flowed less than on the undercoat slightly more drag to the brush & seemed to need to be 'layed off' quicker than the single coats.

Will head to the Amoury (Screwfix)tomorrow & get me a Purdy if all fails i'll get my 12 bore. smile

littlegreenfairy

9,667 posts

109 months

[news] 
Tuesday 31st July 2012 quote quote all
The gloss work in the house is fecking awful and practically custard coloured and apparently only done recently.

Would I be mad to take it back to a natural wood and then seal it?

There is miles and miles of it in banister form too. It looks like a forth bridge job if it doesn't stay white or can't go for wood.

Humpy D

294 posts

83 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Hi 69C, how's the painting going?

I'm interested in your progress as I'm in a similar siutation; all my woodwork is oil based gloss done a few years ago and yellowing so will be going down the water based gloss route.

I happen to like that 'wrapped in platic' look you get with oil based gloss; no water based gloss I have yet tried gives me that plus there are the dreaded brushmarks!!

Tell me, how did you prep the existing paintwork to provide a key for the water based paint? I have read various reviews that this is very important otherwise the water based paint will chip off. I was going to use wet and dry to take the shine off; is this enough?

69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Humpy D said:
Hi 69C, how's the painting going?

I'm interested in your progress as I'm in a similar siutation; all my woodwork is oil based gloss done a few years ago and yellowing so will be going down the water based gloss route.

I happen to like that 'wrapped in platic' look you get with oil based gloss; no water based gloss I have yet tried gives me that plus there are the dreaded brushmarks!!

Tell me, how did you prep the existing paintwork to provide a key for the water based paint? I have read various reviews that this is very important otherwise the water based paint will chip off. I was going to use wet and dry to take the shine off; is this enough?
Painted all the doors again, I've experimented on some of the doors, on some I've sanded with a scothbrite pad as the painted surfaces were already good, some i used 220grit paper for a key. I don't think it will chip off as the waterbase when dry is slightly softer than a fully hardened gloss. My base was on top of Leyland white Satinwood oil based.

I painted some with the Johnstones aqua waterbased undercoat which goes on fine similar to any undercoat, as my doors were already white abet gone off-white I did the majority just with the Johnstones aqua gloss.

When painting no matter what method you choose you have to paint at a very fast rate approx <10mins a door side)

This gloss paint looks & flows similar to normal gloss but you will not be able to paint a door from the top to bottom in one go then give a final lay off to finish. this will not work as the paint at the top will be starting to dry at the top or more likely half way down.

I tried doing a paneled door using a sponge roller I could do half the door using the roller then with a brush lay off the paint before it starts to go off, then roll the bottom half & lay off, this worked out ok'ish but when fully dry I could sort of see an orange peel effect under the brush strokes.

The best method I have personally found & used on the majority of doors is scotchbrite for a key, no undercoat as explained above, then before painting get a damp cloth and wipe the door over, then start painting from the top doing the door in quarter sections down, I use a 2" purdy synthetic brush damped prior to use.

started with applying paint to the insides of the two top inlay panels then fill in the panel & lay off the inner panels they are now finished, i then do the outer rails & infill between panels to approx a 1/4 of the way down from the top an also do the top style & lay off that first then do the rails & lay off I then work another 1/4 down to the cross panel & lay off, then do the bottom infils as above the another 1/4 bit down and carry on till finished, you will feel when painting when the other sections are drying as you brush will tend to drag do not go over it as it will ruck up & loose sheen.

The finish you see with your brush will be the finish you will get once dry approx 4 hours the brush marks don't flow in together as with oil based paints. Some doors I gave a light sand & gave a second coat most I did not as the coverage is good with a high solids content to the paint.

What are my thoughts on it, well its not a super-smooth finish with no brush marks but to be honest it is the best waterbased paint I've used. better than leyland waterbased which i also used.
Would I use it again, its a big yes, its not perfect but it is very shiny & smoothish bright white.

A really good synthetic brush is a must. I used a Purdy 2" & also a Harris 2" no loss brushes the Purdy been an ultra fine filament brush I have wondered if a larger brush may have been even better say 2.5" as you could paint even quicker.

One thing i did do was to wash the brushes after each door or after painting each door frame because even though its waterbased it is a gloss & if left to long it can actually dry on the brush especially nearer to the ferrule. All I hope now is it stays white which it has done so far. All in all its the best waterbased I've used so far. I ordered from http://www.tools-paint.com which was free delivery.
Ultimately I think oil based white glosses are finished due to VOC 2010. I would recommend buying some & trying it to see if it suits your needs. All I need now is a few more months under it belt to prove the will it stay the white test.

69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
littlegreenfairy said:
The gloss work in the house is fecking awful and practically custard coloured and apparently only done recently.

Would I be mad to take it back to a natural wood and then seal it?

There is miles and miles of it in banister form too. It looks like a forth bridge job if it doesn't stay white or can't go for wood.
Sure you can strip back to bare wood then either stain to a nice colour or just finish with a clear gloss/satin or tinted varnish that is a lot of work you are looking at to get to that stage.
In a couple of months from now i'll update this thread & give a definite answer to whether Johnstone Aqua White gloss actually stays white.

juice

3,435 posts

170 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Here in BDA I use Muralo Water-based Semi-Gloss but have found that adding Floetrol to it gets rid of the brush marks, works amazingly well, this seems to be a UK link to it...

http://www.owatroldirect.co.uk/item.php?stock=14

littlegreenfairy

9,667 posts

109 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
69 coupe said:
Sure you can strip back to bare wood then either stain to a nice colour or just finish with a clear gloss/satin or tinted varnish that is a lot of work you are looking at to get to that stage.
In a couple of months from now i'll update this thread & give a definite answer to whether Johnstone Aqua White gloss actually stays white.
I'll wait a couple of months to see how your gloss goes hehe

69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
juice said:
Here in BDA I use Muralo Water-based Semi-Gloss but have found that adding Floetrol to it gets rid of the brush marks, works amazingly well, this seems to be a UK link to it...

http://www.owatroldirect.co.uk/item.php?stock=14
Floetrol was something I was going to buy & read many posts who swore by it, my reasoning not to was that the paint manufacturers would formulate to get the best flow with their own technical wizardry; it is something that I would try if pure perfection was my aim, may try Floetrol when I paint some more. [shudder]

69 coupe

Original Poster:

1,789 posts

99 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
littlegreenfairy said:
I'll wait a couple of months to see how your gloss goes hehe
Good answer biggrin

steveo3002

3,425 posts

62 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
any updates on the paint

im in the same boat and ready to buy some paint

Spudler

3,163 posts

84 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
As previously suggested; Dulux trade diamond eggshell.
Not cheap but well worth it. It's all I use on my developments.

Roy E6

1,016 posts

120 months

[news] 
Wednesday 10th October 2012 quote quote all
It's the reason I won't paint anything white any more! What you should do is use car paint! You don't see white cars going yellow do you?
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