Ma voiture est tombée en panne! :-(
Discussion
Okay, so the problem with the wipers cured itself. But now I'm properly broken down!
This morning, it was reluctant to start. There was a smell of fuel after several attempts, so I did the flooded start procedure and eventually got it going.
It was running sort-of okay, except with a misfire at high revs.
It then cut out after an hour or so of driving when I had to stop and wait at a péage. Got it going again (phew!)' and continued for another hour.
We then stopped at a service station, and after idling normally for a few moments, the engine stopped again. Now it really won't restart. It turns over fine, and sometimes coughs - but often doesn't even try to fire. On one occasion the flooded start technique nearly worked, but I couldn't coax the engine to keep running.
The breakdown guy spoke no English, and I speak only a little French. He checked the basics: fuel, spark. Eventually he gave up and towed us to a nearby garage (in a grotty industrial suburb of Paris), which is where it is now. We've checked into a motel.
They're going to look at it in the morning, but I wondered what the PH panel think might be wrong.
The car has been running fine, and apart from the high-rev misfire it was running well today. It has had to endure some very high temperatures over the last few days, and although the engine hasn't overheated the under-bonnet temperatures were very high.
My current thinking is that the misfire at high revs points to either the coil or the ignition amplifier module, which might have cooked in the heat. Does that sound plausible? Mind you, I believe there was a spark - I couldn't see myself (I was doing the cranking), but both the breakdown guy and a watching Spanish lorry driver nodded. If the coil and/or ignition module were dead, would you expect no spark at all?
Any other thoughts what it could be? It would be great to have some things to suggest to the garage in the morning...
Many thanks in advance; please excuse me if I don't reply in the next hour or two - we're going in search of a drink!
This morning, it was reluctant to start. There was a smell of fuel after several attempts, so I did the flooded start procedure and eventually got it going.
It was running sort-of okay, except with a misfire at high revs.
It then cut out after an hour or so of driving when I had to stop and wait at a péage. Got it going again (phew!)' and continued for another hour.
We then stopped at a service station, and after idling normally for a few moments, the engine stopped again. Now it really won't restart. It turns over fine, and sometimes coughs - but often doesn't even try to fire. On one occasion the flooded start technique nearly worked, but I couldn't coax the engine to keep running.
The breakdown guy spoke no English, and I speak only a little French. He checked the basics: fuel, spark. Eventually he gave up and towed us to a nearby garage (in a grotty industrial suburb of Paris), which is where it is now. We've checked into a motel.
They're going to look at it in the morning, but I wondered what the PH panel think might be wrong.
The car has been running fine, and apart from the high-rev misfire it was running well today. It has had to endure some very high temperatures over the last few days, and although the engine hasn't overheated the under-bonnet temperatures were very high.
My current thinking is that the misfire at high revs points to either the coil or the ignition amplifier module, which might have cooked in the heat. Does that sound plausible? Mind you, I believe there was a spark - I couldn't see myself (I was doing the cranking), but both the breakdown guy and a watching Spanish lorry driver nodded. If the coil and/or ignition module were dead, would you expect no spark at all?
Any other thoughts what it could be? It would be great to have some things to suggest to the garage in the morning...
Many thanks in advance; please excuse me if I don't reply in the next hour or two - we're going in search of a drink!
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 29th July 18:49
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 29th July 18:52
Sounds like the same symptoms as I had when my ignition amp went.
As others have said, when hot it wouldn't start. It would turn over but not start.
But after fiddling for a bit it would suddenly start. So you'd think you've fixed it. Only to die 100 miles later.
See if it starts tomorrow and if it does its the amp.
After asking on here it seemed there wasn't really a way to diagnose the amp other than to swap it out.
Part number is DAB118 (lucas)
As others have said, when hot it wouldn't start. It would turn over but not start.
But after fiddling for a bit it would suddenly start. So you'd think you've fixed it. Only to die 100 miles later.
See if it starts tomorrow and if it does its the amp.
After asking on here it seemed there wasn't really a way to diagnose the amp other than to swap it out.
Part number is DAB118 (lucas)
TVR Beaver said:
Coil or amp would be my first thoughts.. easy to check also...
If it is, it may re-start when cold?...
hope you get sorted and its nothing too bad
Had a similar problem myself a few years back. Car from cold would startIf it is, it may re-start when cold?...
hope you get sorted and its nothing too bad
but tickover wasnt perfect. You could increase the revs and it seemed fine. Once it started to warm up the car was perfect but just as yours there was a slight misfire when you went more than 3/4000 revs.
I too thought the coil beginning to breakdown was the problem but i wanted to try and sort out why she didnt seem to want to idle smoothly.. The engine didnt cut out it just didnt sound right and there was a smell of unburnt fuel.
I checked all the plug leads were seated ok and whilst at idle i pulled them off one at a time. The tickover went worse till i pulled off plug lead no 4 and there was no change.It seems no 4 lead was misfiring intermittently and only at low revs???????? I swapped out this plug lead for a new one and no problems whatsoever since.
Your problem definetly seems spark related. The misfire at speed,and in your own description "everything was fine until you stopped at a peage" This would suggest everything is fine at speed with the revs up, but a poor spark at least, as the revs drop.
Even the slightest breakdown of one or more of the plug leads and a slight misfire could make the engine shunt slightly, this making things worse, eventually flooding the engine and then struggling to get it started again.
Check all the leads are seated ok and check for arcing between the leads and inside the distributor cap. Good luck, Tom.
Thanks guys!
Yes, now I think about it the engine was shunting very slightly at low speeds during the drive yesterday; it normally doesn't shunt at all. For a while it was somewhat down on power but seemed to improve. I put that down to plug fouling after the flooded start which burned off once I got up some proper speed on the Autoroute, but it could have been more symptoms of a dying amp.
I've checked all leads, and they're seated okay. I wouldn't expect a single dodgy lead to prevent it starting - at times yesterday it wast even thinking about firing at all.
I'm sure I've read here that the ignition amp is prone to failure due to heat, so that would certainly fit with the driving I've done in the last few days. It'll be interesting to see if it starts from cold this morning, and if it does I might have a difficult job persuading the AA that there's still a problem. I suppose if they insist that I carry on driving then I could short the otter switch with a paper clip to keep things cooler - that might help a bit.
I'm going to look up some more French words - my vocabulary is poor!
I'll let you know how I get on...
Yes, now I think about it the engine was shunting very slightly at low speeds during the drive yesterday; it normally doesn't shunt at all. For a while it was somewhat down on power but seemed to improve. I put that down to plug fouling after the flooded start which burned off once I got up some proper speed on the Autoroute, but it could have been more symptoms of a dying amp.
I've checked all leads, and they're seated okay. I wouldn't expect a single dodgy lead to prevent it starting - at times yesterday it wast even thinking about firing at all.
I'm sure I've read here that the ignition amp is prone to failure due to heat, so that would certainly fit with the driving I've done in the last few days. It'll be interesting to see if it starts from cold this morning, and if it does I might have a difficult job persuading the AA that there's still a problem. I suppose if they insist that I carry on driving then I could short the otter switch with a paper clip to keep things cooler - that might help a bit.
I'm going to look up some more French words - my vocabulary is poor!
I'll let you know how I get on...
Quietlybonkers said:
Sorry, point of my post is that a local Ford service centre should have one in stock, or be able to get one same day. Good luck!
Copy and paste form that page; (just in case it's easier for him to access)Lucas DAB118 ignition module
3 terminals in block
cross reference / replaces
Lucas 84403
applications include
FORD
Escort Combi 1.4 CVH 1986-90
Escort III 1.3 CVH 1985
Escort III 1.4 CVH 1986-90
Escort III 1.6 CVH 1985-90
Escort RS Turbo 1985-90
Escort 35 , 55 Van 1.3 CVH 1985
Escort 35 , 55 Van 1.4 CVH 1986-90
Escort 55 Van 1.6 CVH 1985-90
Fiesta 1.4 1986-90
Fiesta 1.6 1986-90
Fiesta XR2 CVH 1986-89
Orion 1.3 CVH 1985
Orion 1.4 CVH 1986-90
Orion 1.6 CVH 1985-90
MORGAN
Four Four ( Ford 1600 OHC Eng ) 1985>>
RELIANT
Scimitar SS1 1.3 1985-87
Scimitar SS1 1.4 1987-90
Scimitar SS1 1.6 1985-90
LAND ROVER
Defender 3.5 1990-96
Discovery 3.5 V8 1989-09/93
Discovery 3.9 V8i ( >>VIN.LJ094034 ) 10/93-94
Land Rover V8 1987-90
Range Rover 3.5 1987-89
Range Rover 3.5 Detoxed 1987-89
Range Rover 3.5EFi 1987-89
Range Rover 3.9 V8i 1989-94
Range Rover 4.2 V8i 1992-94
This morning I spoke to Jason at Str8Six and described the symptoms.
His view is that the coil and amp either work or don't work. He thinks the engine might simply be running too rich; perhaps due to a failed lambda or something like that. He also said that if one cylinder is dead then the engine would die when idling, so that's also a possibility.
I'm keeping an open mind at the moment. The car has been transferred to another garage nearby; I'm wondering whether they'll even be able to open a door, let alone fix it!
Jason did state that there's nothing on this engine that can't be obtained nearly everywhere, so that's hopeful. Mind you, I'm currently hoping that the garage fail to do anything, and then the AA will agree to repatriate the car and we can either travel home by Eurostar or in a hire car. Trouble is, getting Eurostar tickets could be tricky because I believe there's some kind of school sports day going on at the moment?
Anyway, I'll know by about 4 o'clock.
His view is that the coil and amp either work or don't work. He thinks the engine might simply be running too rich; perhaps due to a failed lambda or something like that. He also said that if one cylinder is dead then the engine would die when idling, so that's also a possibility.
I'm keeping an open mind at the moment. The car has been transferred to another garage nearby; I'm wondering whether they'll even be able to open a door, let alone fix it!
Jason did state that there's nothing on this engine that can't be obtained nearly everywhere, so that's hopeful. Mind you, I'm currently hoping that the garage fail to do anything, and then the AA will agree to repatriate the car and we can either travel home by Eurostar or in a hire car. Trouble is, getting Eurostar tickets could be tricky because I believe there's some kind of school sports day going on at the moment?
Anyway, I'll know by about 4 o'clock.
Oops! Didn't notice Ribol's reply before I posted.
Hmmm... I think my plan is to let the garage fail miserably, which will prompt the AA to repatriate the car!
One way or another, I think the AA will give us a hire car, which we should be able to drive back to the uk. Then, if the garage can't fix it then the AA will ship it back; if by some miracle they do fix it then they'll pay for me to travel to fetch it.
Decision time is 4 o'clock apparently!
But, if they insist on keeping the car to fix it, then I might well take you up on the offer to order the correct parts - cheers!
Edited to add: I'm in a place called "Mennecy" which is sort-of on the southern edge of Paris. It's grotty. Think Beirut but with less shelling and machine-gun fire.
Hmmm... I think my plan is to let the garage fail miserably, which will prompt the AA to repatriate the car!
One way or another, I think the AA will give us a hire car, which we should be able to drive back to the uk. Then, if the garage can't fix it then the AA will ship it back; if by some miracle they do fix it then they'll pay for me to travel to fetch it.
Decision time is 4 o'clock apparently!
But, if they insist on keeping the car to fix it, then I might well take you up on the offer to order the correct parts - cheers!
Edited to add: I'm in a place called "Mennecy" which is sort-of on the southern edge of Paris. It's grotty. Think Beirut but with less shelling and machine-gun fire.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Monday 30th July 12:10
Mike,
There is a French TVRCC member called Eric (?) who has a garage in Orsay - Paris suburbs.
To me it does sound like an ign. amp. failure.
A pal at the LM Classic had a diff problem and was advised to go there. Turned out he didn't cure the problem, but he may be able to help out with your possible ignition p[roblem.
TVRCC France: RO is Eric Cave tel:00 33 6 24 75 94 56.
Nick
There is a French TVRCC member called Eric (?) who has a garage in Orsay - Paris suburbs.
To me it does sound like an ign. amp. failure.
A pal at the LM Classic had a diff problem and was advised to go there. Turned out he didn't cure the problem, but he may be able to help out with your possible ignition p[roblem.
TVRCC France: RO is Eric Cave tel:00 33 6 24 75 94 56.
Nick
slideways said:
Check inside the dizzy cap for carbon tracks between the terminals, the rotor arm and also check all the leads are seated
^ THIS ^ 
I wouldn't be too quick to write off your holiday and repatriate the car for what sounds like a simple ignition fault.
Fit a decent new distributor cap (STC8368) & a new Lucas rotor arm (STC1857).
The rotor arm must be a genuine one with LUCAS cast into black bakelite insulation, available from here:
http://www.dingocroft.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?RE...
Given your situation I strongly recommend you just give the car a complete ignition service, Digocroft can also supply you with a Lucas ignition amplifier, Bosch coil, a set of decent Bosch HT leads & 8 spark plugs.
None of the parts are that expensive.
Tel: 01494 448367
Fax: 01494 459964
email: sales@dingocroft.co.uk
Ask Dingcroft to throw everything in a box & FedEx it to your hotel.
You'll have your box of parts in less than 48 hours, just do a bit of sightseeing while you wait for everything to turn up.
You can easily fit all the parts yourself with little or no mechanical knowledge & simple cheap tools bought locally if you don't have any with you.
If you take your time, systematically removing each item & replacing it with the new part exactly as the old one came off, you cant really get it wrong.
Or if you feel more comfortable just giving the box of parts to the mechanic, you should look to pay him for no more than two hours labour.
Then simply continue your holiday.
Good luck with it, Dave.
Any good?
http://www.allmakes.fr/index.html
Allmakes France
5, rue des Frères Lumière
78570 Chanteloup-les-Vignes
Tél. 01 39 70 51 47
Fax : 01 39 70 51 15
E-mail : contact@allmakes-france.com
http://www.allmakes.fr/index.html
Allmakes France
5, rue des Frères Lumière
78570 Chanteloup-les-Vignes
Tél. 01 39 70 51 47
Fax : 01 39 70 51 15
E-mail : contact@allmakes-france.com
I had the problem you describe when I was in France last year. Turned out to be the coil. Looked fine at first glace, however the point at which the HT lead goes into the coil(plastic/bacolite?) had burnt away causing it to short out. Managed to insulate it with some tank tape and carried on for a further 1400mls without a problem.
This was just 20mins after getting of the ferry, my mrs was not impressed. Oh how I remember the happy banter between us by the road side.
Me...Can't be anything serious
Her..This is great we have only been going 20mins
Me...As I say it can't be anything serious.
Her..What a way to start the holiday, you did take out that breakdown cover didn't you?
Me...I tell you what honey, why don't you come and fix the car and I'll sit in the passanger seat winging.
Ah the silence was bliss and continued for a considerable time after we were on our way again. Maybe as long as 2hrs.
This was just 20mins after getting of the ferry, my mrs was not impressed. Oh how I remember the happy banter between us by the road side.
Me...Can't be anything serious
Her..This is great we have only been going 20mins
Me...As I say it can't be anything serious.
Her..What a way to start the holiday, you did take out that breakdown cover didn't you?
Me...I tell you what honey, why don't you come and fix the car and I'll sit in the passanger seat winging.
Ah the silence was bliss and continued for a considerable time after we were on our way again. Maybe as long as 2hrs.
Edited by biper on Monday 30th July 14:01
Plenty more food for thought!
We're on our way home anyway, hence my plan to just get the two of us and the car home and deal with the problem there.
All those links will be useful for ordering parts though, so "merci" for those. Have to admit that an ignition fault does seem likely, but it's hard to ignore Jason's experience...
Anyway, it's nearly 4 o'clock here, so soon I'll know. If the AA will ship us all back home then that's what I'll go for - then I will have a go at fixing it myself at home.
We're on our way home anyway, hence my plan to just get the two of us and the car home and deal with the problem there.
All those links will be useful for ordering parts though, so "merci" for those. Have to admit that an ignition fault does seem likely, but it's hard to ignore Jason's experience...
Anyway, it's nearly 4 o'clock here, so soon I'll know. If the AA will ship us all back home then that's what I'll go for - then I will have a go at fixing it myself at home.
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