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FiF

Original Poster:

18,403 posts

120 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
The question is, considering the public's appetite and reception for the BBC multi 24 channel coverage of the Olympics only being available on satellite and cable services, Sky, Freesat, Virgin versus the 3 channels on Freeview, (not sure what position with BT vision is but it's also restricted) will this ultimately sound the death knell for Freeview etc?

Obviously the Olympics is a rather special situation where the viewer interests are varied and divided, plus there is the opportunity to provide particular specialist feeds.

However must admit that if I'd been restricted to Freeview during the last two weeks my enjoyment of the event would have been distinctly diminished. On the other hand, seeing as I'm in an area where we don't get the full set of Freeview channels, would it have been a case of not knowing what was being missed?

I have a feeling that given the satellite platform has coped with 24 extra channels, technically 48 on Sky 24*SD and 24*HD, (not sure about 3D) plus the ability to live stream over broadband, I'm thinking the Freeview platform is significantly damaged going forward. Or will Freeview survive simply by providing the main broadcast and then rely on people who want to see other stuff streaming live over broadband?

We see on the F1 racing where people are watching the live transmissions, also taking feeds from various places F1, McLaren and so on, plus posting on PH and elsewhere. The same has been experienced widely during the Olympics, with people discussing things on sport specific websites, plus the usual wider Facebook and Twitter posts.

NBC coverage for example has been completely restricted to where US athletes are partaking, and pretty much when they only have a chance. Been desperately poor frankly.

After the disaster that was the Jubilee river pageant, will the BBC realise the opportunity afforded them by the Olympics, realise what they have acheved and that it could be a turning point.




Aside:- The above is despite the dire nature of Trevor Nelson's input during coverage of the opening ceremony. Muppetry at that level will take time to turn round, if only as long as the time to issue a P45.

DoctorX

1,216 posts

36 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
Weren't all the different sports available on Freeview by pressing the red button?

mike325112

1,023 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
DoctorX said:
Weren't all the different sports available on Freeview by pressing the red button?
yes I had to retune my television upstairs to get the new channels. Basically they broadcast the feeds as different channels.

Marf

22,907 posts

110 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
However must admit that if I'd been restricted to Freeview during the last two weeks my enjoyment of the event would have been distinctly diminished. On the other hand, seeing as I'm in an area where we don't get the full set of Freeview channels, would it have been a case of not knowing what was being missed?
I notice you're using the internet.

All the channels that have been added to freeview or are accessible through the red button are also online.

FiF

Original Poster:

18,403 posts

120 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
DoctorX said:
Weren't all the different sports available on Freeview by pressing the red button?
it seems not link and link2

also not everybody has broadband coverage / internet access which allows live streaming in case some of you haven't noticed.
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JM

1,789 posts

75 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
DoctorX said:
Weren't all the different sports available on Freeview by pressing the red button?
No.

But with the three options available, I don't think I missed anything I wanted to see, and if I'd had the 24 channels I'm sure I'd have been more likely to have missed one thing by watching another which maybe was of less interest, but I'd end up watching anyway. If you know what I mean.

And surely the fact that you can get however many channels hundred on Sky now as opposed to a few dozen Freeview dispells the idea that freeview is doomed. Because people are still 'happy' with freeview.




sjg

4,296 posts

134 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
They only have limited bandwidth on Freeview - it was already near capacity and the BBC are doing things like using spare parliament channel space for all-day BBC3. But even then, all the popular Olympics stuff is on the Freeview channels - I know a lot of people who've not strayed beyond BBC1/2/3 this last couple of weeks. They cover all the mainstream interests and british medal hopes - most people aren't fussed about watching every fencing bout, or every equestrian jump.

We're really back to the situation we had before in the analogue days - don't pay and you get a load of free-to-air stuff via an aerial, or pay and get more stuff via cable or satellite. Just with an extra 0 on the number of channels available.

c123

163 posts

18 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
This discussion was in Wednesday’s Radio 4 Media Show.

IMO there will be a place for Freeview for years yet because pay TV (excluding the licence) isn’t for everyone and there isn’t the infrastructure for all households to switch to internet streaming. However the Olympics has probably opened a lot of peoples eyes to what is possible. My seventy year old dad has Sky but doesn’t really make use of it, however he and my mum (who usually wonders off when sport is on) have navigated round the dedicated Olympic channels and watched 3-4 hours of it in the daytime most days.

FiF

Original Poster:

18,403 posts

120 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
c123 said:
This discussion was in Wednesday’s Radio 4 Media Show.

IMO there will be a place for Freeview for years yet because pay TV (excluding the licence) isn’t for everyone and there isn’t the infrastructure for all households to switch to internet streaming. However the Olympics has probably opened a lot of peoples eyes to what is possible. My seventy year old dad has Sky but doesn’t really make use of it, however he and my mum (who usually wonders off when sport is on) have navigated round the dedicated Olympic channels and watched 3-4 hours of it in the daytime most days.
Thanks for that link, very interesting.

So they confirmed that not everything was on the red button, albeit everything was available online in addition to satellite. Plus freeview will continue to provide the mainstream channels in a cost effective way, but as soon as there is an infrastructure to cope with alternative means of delivery then people will shift fairly rapidly, but that is some years ahead.


Simpo Two

54,262 posts

134 months

[news] 
Thursday 9th August 2012 quote quote all
On Freeview there was:

1: BBC1
2: BBC2 (sometimes)
7: BBC7 (evenings)
50: BBC1 HD (same programme as BBC1 SD)
54: BBC HD (same programme as BBC7)
301: Another channel called 'Red Button'
302: ditto, but only sometimes.

In summary, there was generally only a choice of two programmes, each in SD and HD. The EPG was no use at all as it didn't list specific events.


The image quality was superb, but everything else compared to 'the old days' was a messy shambles IMHO. The amount of time given to interviews with breathless athletes is guaranteed to make me turn over. If I turn on the Olympics it's because I want to watch people running, jumping, throwing etc, not gasping sweatily into microphones answering inane questions.

eccles

7,703 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
DoctorX said:
Weren't all the different sports available on Freeview by pressing the red button?
it seems not link and link2

also not everybody has broadband coverage / internet access which allows live streaming in case some of you haven't noticed.
I've got a freesatHD box and all the extra Olympic channels weren't watchable as they kept stuttering and freezing and that's in an area with an OK signal.
Strangely the ordinary BBC HD channel played fine.

vladcjelli

1,291 posts

27 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
Simpo Two said:
I want to watch people running, jumping, throwing etc, not gasping sweatily into microphones answering inane questions.
In principle I would agree, but...

...when Phil (?) said to whoever, "John Smith, Olympic Gold Medallist. How does that sound?" the realisation and accompanying grin was well worth the banal questioning that followed.

Halb

17,864 posts

52 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
I don't see how the standard platform could have it's death knell sounded.

FiF

Original Poster:

18,403 posts

120 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
eccles said:
FiF said:
DoctorX said:
Weren't all the different sports available on Freeview by pressing the red button?
it seems not link and link2

also not everybody has broadband coverage / internet access which allows live streaming in case some of you haven't noticed.
I've got a freesatHD box and all the extra Olympic channels weren't watchable as they kept stuttering and freezing and that's in an area with an OK signal.
Strangely the ordinary BBC HD channel played fine.
Yet, although we have an old white Sky+ box so had the 24 channels through there, we also have a third fly lead coming out of the satellite wall socket in addition to the two to the sky+ box.

This is plugged into the back of the TV,h whic being a Samsung has a freesat tuner. We watched this in HD more often than the sky+ channels,the only downside is that on cannot pause and replay, but the image quality and service level, ie no freezing was superb. Even watched an Olymics roundup programme in 3D one morning, most of it looked a bit odd, but the sailing in 3D was immense.

davepoth

19,925 posts

68 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
FiF said:
. Even watched an Olymics roundup programme in 3D one morning, most of it looked a bit odd, but the sailing in 3D was immense.
I can imagine 3D adds a lot to the sailing - it's so difficult to judge the relative positions of the boats on normal TV.

stevejh

592 posts

73 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
In all honesty I think if you're a huge sports fan you would probably have something other than Freeview anyway as there is obviously wider coverage of sport on Sky.

I'm a big F1 fan but am happy (ish) watching it on the BBC on Freeview as there is really nothing else on Sky that compels me to go the expense of spending the extra money.

If there have been any sports that I want to watch coverage of that haven't been on Freeview I have either gone on to the BBC website to watch or have used the BBC Sports app on our PS3. Obviously the quality isn't fantastic but it's good enough for watching the odd few minutes of a relatively obscure, but perhaps interesting, sport.

iva cosworth

6,777 posts

32 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
I don't have Sky,Virgin or whatever and have seen everything i wanted to on

BBC1,2,3 ,i haven't even used the red button.

All the major events have been on 1 or 2.

Chrisgr31

7,424 posts

124 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
iva cosworth said:
I don't have Sky,Virgin or whatever and have seen everything i wanted to on

BBC1,2,3 ,i haven't even used the red button.

All the major events have been on 1 or 2.
I am in the same position although actually more extreme. From the moment I get home unil the moment I go to bed the TV is on BBC 1, and I dont think I have missed anything I would have wanted to watch.

The reality is there are a significant number of people whose TV watching is more dependent on what is available to them and who just dont believe that the additional TV available to them from Sky, Virgin etc is worth the cost. Those people wont change just because the Olympics is on all channels for 2 weeks every 4 years, or F1 is on Sky 10 weekends a year, or a Boxing match in one once every 3 months etc.

alock

1,709 posts

80 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
I look at it the other way around. For me, I wonder what value paid TV services like Sky offer over what you can get for free.

If you want high quality professionally edited sports programs in HD that cover everything that 99% of viewers want then the BBC Freeview service has been ideal. I don't want to be jumping around multiple channels trying to watch everything. I want someone to edit it for me into a continuous sequence I can watch. A couple of times I've found two channels broadcasting something I'm interested in. I end up jumping back and forth and not enjoying it as much.

For the few specific things I wanted to hunt out due to missing them, wanting to watch them again or just because it was a minority interest, I've gone online. iPlayer has been ideal for this and provides content in a way that Sky will never match (even on my 900Kb connection).

FiF

Original Poster:

18,403 posts

120 months

[news] 
Friday 10th August 2012 quote quote all
I think the point behind the original question is being missed somewhat by many.

Let me put it another way. The Olympics has been an example of how it is possible to have multiple specialist channels so that people can see dedicated coverage of a particular topic. As it has been focused on the Olympics this has been sports, but dedicated coverage does not have to be restricted to sports.

As pointed out by the radio show linked earlier by another poster, in the current state of play, only a PBS organisation like the BBC could have done this, it would not have been viable for a commercial company to do this.

Nevertheless a lot of people who hitherto have been happy to restrict their viewing to what has been offered on the main channels have had their eyes opened as to what is possible. As always in these circumstances, indeed as demonstrated on this thread, viewers' opinions will range from the "wow" end of the spectrum right down to "meh" and "so what" end.

What cannot be denied though is that the limitation of some of the delivery infrastructures has been exposed if there is a demand. Broadband might be getting there slowly in years to come, but it is not there yet. Cable/fibre optic only in limited areas. Which leaves either satellite, be it Freesat or Sky, or digital Freeview transmissions.

If, and it's a big if, but if this demand for content takes off the Freeview capability will not be adequate for many, and there may well be a shift of customer base. It may be ten years or more away, but imo it will happen.

I have no confidence that the Govt will get any decisions on this right.

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