Has anyone used a private detective?

Has anyone used a private detective?

Author
Discussion

SmoothCriminal

5,047 posts

198 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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I suppose it depends what the signs are and how you've noticed them?

But I'd defo say find out one way or another otherwise this is going to eat you up inside and will affect every part of your life.

A bit down

Original Poster:

209 posts

140 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Thanks very much for all the kind an supportive words. As you can imagine, I'm extremely conflicted about what I want to do. Here's the story:

Got together in the mid 90's, had a lot of fun. Both had good careers and had a few years of being DINKYs. We got married in '97 and decided to try for a family a couple of years later. We conceived fairly quickly and our Daughter was born - difficult labour which my wife has said in counselling she feels guilty for, although I have no idea why. She did absolutely everything right during the pregnancy and our Daughter was 9lb when born - my wife is quite small so struggled to push her out and after more than 40 hours, had an emergency section.

We both stayed at work for a short time but my wife decided she wanted to stop working to look after our Daughter so she did. I have worked very hard, travelled a lot and built a successful career but my family has always come first.

Our son was born a few years later and that was pretty much the end of my wife and I being intimate in any way. She didn't want to be "approached", I gave her some space and it became the norm for more than seven years. It's amazing what you can put up with in hindsight but I never strayed or was tempted to, I always assumed that things would improve in that area but they never did. We sort of fell into a "family management team" but both focused on the kids and it was ticking along.

A year or so ago my wife was 40 and it hit her hard. She lost a lot of weight, really took an interest in her appearance and started to go and see her friends more often. I was really pleased for her and supported as far as possible (we don't live very close to family so if she wants to go out I usually need to look after the kids - which I love).

A couple of months ago she wandered into the room and said "I'm not happy". We talked for a very long time over a few days, she explained that she loves me but isn't in love with me any more, whatever that means. She just said we were too far gone to ever get things back and asked if I would consider a trial separation. I declined and asked if she would consider counselling, which she initially refused but eventually she agreed and we have been three times. I also asked her twice if there was anyone else involved as her declaration appeared to be very definitive and final, and she categorically denied it.

We have been trying to improve things but I have begun to notice things like the fact that her phone is never, ever away from her and she is on it all the time. She sleeps with it under her pillow and will be texting while we are the middle of a conversation. Another thing is that I have the honour of filling her car up with fuel (she can't be bothered), and her mileage has shot up over the last few months. She just puts this down to seeing friends more often, which may or may not be true.

Last week we had booked a family holiday and one of her friends invited her to go to Turkey during the same week we were due to be on holiday in Cornwall with the children. She went to Turkey as she needed "space", I took the kids to Cornwall and we had a good time.

The thing that made me post this thread was that I picked up the post today and opened a letter addressed to her (genuinely) by mistake. It's a parking fine from a motorway service station about 30 miles from where we live because she left her car there for four hours one evening a couple of weeks ago when the maximum stay is two hours. I was away with work that night and the children were staying over at their grandparents' house.....

I'm sure if I asked her about it she would just say she went to meet a friend and they went shopping in one car or something but given all of the above (plus her extremely curt manner towards me almost all of the time) you can hopefully see why I'm suspicious. We don't have any friends in common really - if I'm honest we don't have very much at all in common.

As to what I want - I don't know, but I do know that I do not want to be separated from my children. I would be prepared to put up with an awful lot to avoid that. I have a wonderful relationship with both of them and they dote on me - they much prefer me to their mother.

The PI thing is (I think) so that at least I know the truth and can decide on a course of action from there. I'm very much between a rock and a hard place but I feel I have been very accommodating and supportive of her, provided her with a very nice lifestyle and taken my share of responsibility raising the children. If it was just me and her I would be a lot more assertive about this but it isn't and I don't feel that I can afford to be.

In the end, I'm deeply hurt and very conflicted. I have genuinely done my best to be a good husband and father and I don't think I deserve to continue living in suspicion. I meant what I said about my wedding vows and apologies, I didn't mean to make it about religion - it's just that a lot of people seem to think marriage and parenthood is a "try it and wander off if you don't like it" thing. I very much do not.

There's more of course but that gives you the idea. Even as I read this back it looks glaringly obvious but I need to be sure before I do anything else. I haven't even told her about the parking ticket yet.

RobbieKB

7,715 posts

182 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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I'd be shocked if she wasn't hiding something. Tough break mate. Is there no way you can check her phone messages whilst she is in the bathroom or something? If you're going down the PI route then surely doing something like that, although dishonest, isn't a moral stretch (not taking some weird high ground, I would do it too in that situation).

Papa Hotel

12,760 posts

181 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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If you do confront her, don't ask her anything you don't already know the answer to.

Art0ir

9,401 posts

169 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Skipped most of the thread, but if you decide to go through with it I know a PD that owes me a favour if you want contact details.

RobbieKB

7,715 posts

182 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Art0ir said:
Skipped most of the thread, but if you decide to go through with it I know a PD that owes me a favour if you want contact details.
You've been dreaming of the day you get to say that haven't you?

Edited by RobbieKB on Thursday 16th August 20:56

GarryA

4,700 posts

163 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Have you got an iPhone?

Set it to silent and hide it in the car (ideal time when you go and fill up)

Then use the cloud to track the phone on google maps.

Edited by GarryA on Thursday 16th August 20:49

66comanche

2,369 posts

158 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
A bit down said:
A couple of months ago she wandered into the room and said "I'm not happy". We talked for a very long time over a few days, she explained that she loves me but isn't in love with me any more, whatever that means. She just said we were too far gone to ever get things back and asked if I would consider a trial separation. I declined and asked if she would consider counselling, which she initially refused but eventually she agreed and we have been three times. I also asked her twice if there was anyone else involved as her declaration appeared to be very definitive and final, and she categorically denied it.
Reverse of my situation, very similar, didn't bother with counselling, I'd tried to tell the other half I wasn't happy so, so, many times but she wouldn't ever listen. We carried on in a rut and I eventually met someone I had a 'connection' with. There was no crossover, I realised then what I needed to do, move on. Which is what is sounds like your wife is doing (there may well be crossover in your situation, women don't tend to let go of one branch until the next is within reach).

Does her phone have GPS - track her that way, your own GPS device in her car, keylogging software to access email accounts, etc. The fact her phone is kept close is a huge warning sign, get it, read every area, inbox/sent/drafts/pics stored in temp folders, there will be some evidence somewhere if she's up to no good.

TheDoggingFather

17,089 posts

205 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Sad times fella, I hope it works out for the best, especially for the kids!

Gene Vincent

4,002 posts

157 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
I've fked up both my marriages so any advice I might offer should be seen in the light of abject failure in my past... but that said... do nothing that is out of your normal character any such aberrations will haunt you, the detective thing is only really to give finality to failure, it will only give you bad news, don't seek out bad news, if it comes then deal with it.

All women can feel unhappy as they approach 40, female beauty to them is about youth, her unhappiness can and will make you unhappy, tell her that if the occasion arises, just matter of factly, because it's true.

Do whatever you can to agree to stay together until your kids are 16, 18 if possible, living separate lives.

Sorry if I've nothing of real value to offer you mate, but I recall my own pain and failure and know where you are, stay true to yourself and good luck.

GarryA

4,700 posts

163 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
66comanche said:
Reverse of my situation, very similar, didn't bother with counselling, I'd tried to tell the other half I wasn't happy so, so, many times but she wouldn't ever listen. We carried on in a rut and I eventually met someone I had a 'connection' with. There was no crossover, I realised then what I needed to do, move on. Which is what is sounds like your wife is doing (there may well be crossover in your situation, women don't tend to let go of one branch until the next is within reach).

Does her phone have GPS - track her that way, your own GPS device in her car, keylogging software to access email accounts, etc. The fact her phone is kept close is a huge warning sign, get it, read every area, inbox/sent/drafts/pics stored in temp folders, there will be some evidence somewhere if she's up to no good.
If you want to be really sneaky you could buy an identical phone and swap sim cards with hers.

jjones

4,422 posts

192 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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sorry mate, if she isn't riding someone else i will eat my hat frown

Zwolf

25,867 posts

205 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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What would such "evidence" actually prove?

  • That your wife isn't in love with you? She's already said so, surely that's sufficient in and of itself.
  • That you don't trust her any more? That's also already self-evident.
Is the counselling something she's going along with just for the sake of it to appease you and not something she actually wants to work?

It's all well and good holding your attitude to marriage, family values and working at the difficult times that many long-term relationships go through, but if she's already mentally and emotionally out of the door and doesn't share them, you don't need to waste time and money getting someone else to *prove* it.

Just ask her. Either she'll admit it and you can either work at things or agree to part ways, but keep things amicable for your children's sakes whilst you do so. Alternatively, she'll deny it and either be lying or telling the truth. After over 15 years, you should really be able to tell which, no matter the words she actually says. In your heart and if you're honest with yourself.

Even if she hasn't been having an affair - does it actually matter? Her heart isn't in it after all and that's generally always going to be the death knell, however much you wish it wasn't so. *Proving* her infidelity in the way you suggest will only result in an acrimonious split and that's much less good for your children (emotionally and financially) than an amicable mutually agreed separation.


A bit down

Original Poster:

209 posts

140 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Zwolf said:
What would such "evidence" actually prove?

  • That your wife isn't in love with you? She's already said so, surely that's sufficient in and of itself.
  • That you don't trust her any more? That's also already self-evident.
Is the counselling something she's going along with just for the sake of it to appease you and not something she actually wants to work?

It's all well and good holding your attitude to marriage, family values and working at the difficult times that many long-term relationships go through, but if she's already mentally and emotionally out of the door and doesn't share them, you don't need to waste time and money getting someone else to *prove* it.

Just ask her. Either she'll admit it and you can either work at things or agree to part ways, but keep things amicable for your children's sakes whilst you do so. Alternatively, she'll deny it and either be lying or telling the truth. After over 15 years, you should really be able to tell which, no matter the words she actually says. In your heart and if you're honest with yourself.

Even if she hasn't been having an affair - does it actually matter? Her heart isn't in it after all and that's generally always going to be the death knell, however much you wish it wasn't so. *Proving* her infidelity in the way you suggest will only result in an acrimonious split and that's much less good for your children (emotionally and financially) than an amicable mutually agreed separation.
This is the sort of advice I would give someone else in my situation, thank you.

I have asked her and she has denied it. I really don't know if I believe her (and I mean I don't know, as opposed to "i don't"). I know that I do want to believe her. I suspect she is going along with the counselling so that she can say she tried afterwards, although she doesn't open up very much in the sessions and is suspicious of the whole process. She's not speaking to her parents at the moment as they more or less accused her of having an affair.

For me it's really about the children. They are thriving and growing into excellent little people - I want this to continue and I know they will be crushed if we split. I know I was when my parents split (when I wasn't much older).

The "evidence" will prove to me once and for all that I cannot trust her. She has said some quite direct things and been honest about her feelings during this process but if she has categorically denied having an affair to my face and turns out to be having one, that removal of trust will probably be enough for me to go about ending the marriage. It would be very difficult to continue raising the children together if I don't trust her. I would still want to bide my time and do it on my terms as far as possible though.

With that said, if I can't trust her, I can't trust her not to make bad decisions and bring bad influences into the children's lives if I'm not around - she's extremely emotional at the best of times.....as I said, I'm conflicted.


Edited by A bit down on Thursday 16th August 21:25

Mobile Chicane

20,735 posts

211 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
I'd say the service station 'parking ticket' were evidence enough.

Such places often have hotels attached, right?

Sorry to hear this, btw.

Art0ir

9,401 posts

169 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
RobbieKB said:
You've been dreaming of the day you get to say that haven't you?

Edited by RobbieKB on Thursday 16th August 20:56
I actually hadn't even thought about him in well over a year prior to seeing this thread biggrin

slippery

14,093 posts

238 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
cliffe_mafia said:
Don't confront her without 100% cast iron evidence. If she is having an affair then she will deny it and swear blind it's not happening.

Buy a voice activated mp3 recorder from Ebay, put it under her car seat. If she is having an affair she will be on the phone to him or have him in the car. Either that or a car tracker - that's what the PDs use anyway.
This. Knowledge is power. yes

Zwolf

25,867 posts

205 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
A bit down said:
She's not speaking to her parents at the moment as they more or less accused her of having an affair.
To me, that's very telling indeed. She might be able to lie to you, but not to her parents. I'm sorry to say it, but that rings the loudest alarm bell for me out of all you've said so far.

A bit down said:
For me it's really about the children. They are thriving and growing into excellent little people - I want this to continue and I know they will be crushed if we split. I know I was when my parents split (when I wasn't much older).
Of course you want what's best for them and your own memories are naturally coming back to the fore. But you and your wife are not your parents and they are not you. The two of you staying in a loveless relationship will also have some effect upon their development, especially that of managing their own future relationships successfully.

My rudimentary maths suggests to me that your children are 11-13 ish, which means they have the mental capacity to be talked to about this stuff and asked for their input too. The earlier they are talked to the better I think, rather than presented with a "we're separating" out of the blue and the anxiety that will bring.

From my own perspective, I would suggest getting things under way before you're eldest is at the critical stage of studying/revising GCSEs, so whatever new domestic set-up they're going to have is in place before then, rather than going on throughout and disrupting a key stage of their education and development and the attendant impact upon adult life that can have. There's no *right* time of course, but there can be some wrong ones.

SSC!

1,849 posts

179 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
quotequote all
Don't bother with the PI, save the money, rent a motor and follow her. My Uncle did this to get the proof he needed for his solicitor.

frown

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Thursday 16th August 2012
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Mobile Chicane said:
I'd say the service station 'parking ticket' were evidence enough.

Such places often have hotels attached, right?

Sorry to hear this, btw.
If I ever find myself in court, I hope you aren't on the jury.

You haven't got a clue, and neither have I. The difference is, I'm not trying to look clever by pretending I know!