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MocMocaMoc

Original Poster:

1,524 posts

27 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
SHutchinson said:
No idea. But, surely there's no negatives for you. You'll achieve the Raoul Moat look in no time and it's not like having a tiny knob is going to be a hindrance for you!

Hope this helps.
This aggression is obviously the effect of steroids - I suggest you lay off, at least until the coppers offer you a clear exit from the Chip Shop you're currently holed up in, sawn off in one hand, iPhone (logged into Piston Heads) in the other.

monthefish

17,893 posts

117 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
balders118 said:
I'd say the main reason people new to bulking don't put on weight is simply because they don't eat enough. If you train hard and lift well, no matter what style of training you're doing, you will put on weight as long as you nail the diet.
The man speaks sense.

A good diet + supplements where necesarry should see you right.

Willeh85

408 posts

29 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Also perhaps post the same question on the forum at myprotien.co.uk Its a very active forum so you might get some more help http://community.myprotein.com/forum.php

There are some good tips on the main site including suggested diet plans and routines, and also of course the products that will help.

balders118

4,241 posts

54 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Willeh85 said:
Also perhaps post the same question on the forum at myprotien.co.uk Its a very active forum so you might get some more help http://community.myprotein.com/forum.php

There are some good tips on the main site including suggested diet plans and routines, and also of course the products that will help.
The thing about asking for advice on a place like myprotein is that it will generally be pretty bias towards supplemenation, when infact a lot of supplements are snake oil.

Take caffeine for example - although it does certainly have an ergogenic effect, MP sell it as a weight control supp. This will be based on the initial findings of a study conducted by Essig et al. (1980) who found an increase in Free fatty acid (FFA) ciurculation when using caffeine, therfore your body will use fats as a energy source helping you stay trim. However, Graham (2000) demonstrated that despite an increase in FFAs in the blood, there is no increae in uptake of these from the working muscle, so despite the release they are still not getting used so infact you do not use fat to a greater degree when using caffeine. Supplement companies won't tell you this however, they will rely on the science that backs them up, not the whole story!

tankplanker

346 posts

165 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
balders118 said:
MocMocaMoc said:
SHutchinson said:
Have you considered steroids?
Are they worth it, in your experience?
They get you massive with little effort and as far as I'm aware there are no negative side effects. It's a no brainer!
If only they worked like that!

Most 'roids dramatically reduce your recovery time meaning you can train a lot more, and if you want to gain bulk you can keep after your cycle you need to work way harder than you would off the 'roids. For example if you do 5 working sets of bench press off cycle you'll need to do 10 working sets of bench on cycle. On the gear you can even train heavy weights twice a day on a stronger cycle, if you can manage heavy weights on the same muscle group even every day without gear then you are either a genetic freak or not lifting anywhere near heavy enough.

You also need to eat like a complete pig on a cycle as you'll be working much harder. Eating well over 3000 calories (and nearer 4000 ideally) of clean calories with a high protein macro is expensive and difficult. I eat around 2500 calories, that works out to 3 breasts of chicken a day plus sausages, a heap of eggs and protein shakes.

Gear like superdrol can give you bloat making you look bigger but you'll lose that pretty quickly once you come off cycle. A good month long cycle should see you putting on 14lbs or so of muscle, keeping at least half of that after the next months PCT (post cycle therapy). PCT is vital after a cycle as your natural hormone levels will be all over the place, and PCT should be for twice as long as the cycle. During PCT keeping your lifts up is hard, you have to drop the number of work sets to less than before (so if five work sets before the cycle, ten work sets on cycle, two or three during PCT) but still keep the weight increasing all the while you feel like rubbish.

Good results can be had in a much quicker timespan but it requires a lot of extra work and you risk damage to your body. I don't see it as cheating if you are honest about it and do not compete in any competitive sport.

Regardless if you take 'roids or not make sure you eat plenty and sleep loads. If you don't sleep enough then your body can't recover and if it can't recover you'll be getting weaker every time you lift.

Lift heavy, and most important of all is lift more each time you lift. If the weight and reps stays the same you aren't progressing, and if you aren't progressing you aren't growing muscle.
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Onemcs

322 posts

60 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
You can still bulk whilst not getting fat.

I started this year at 66kg with around 9% body fat.

I now sit here 73.5kg at 7.7% body fat.

Followed two 12 week programs and even lost body fat whilst doing so.

www.bodybuilding.com is your friend here

Good luck with your training!

Ordinary_Chap

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Onemcs said:
You can still bulk whilst not getting fat.

I started this year at 66kg with around 9% body fat.

I now sit here 73.5kg at 7.7% body fat.

Followed two 12 week programs and even lost body fat whilst doing so.

www.bodybuilding.com is your friend here

Good luck with your training!
Most folk can't bulk really without adding fat.

A complete noobie can sometimes lose fat and gain muscle but for folk who have been training for a while its really not possible for most.

The body really is only good at doing one thing at a time, gaining muscle and some fat (the amount is determined by the amount of additional calories over requirement are ate) or losing fat and trying to hold muscle.

Onemcs

322 posts

60 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Ordinary_Chap said:
Onemcs said:
You can still bulk whilst not getting fat.

I started this year at 66kg with around 9% body fat.

I now sit here 73.5kg at 7.7% body fat.

Followed two 12 week programs and even lost body fat whilst doing so.

www.bodybuilding.com is your friend here

Good luck with your training!
Most folk can't bulk really without adding fat.

A complete noobie can sometimes lose fat and gain muscle but for folk who have been training for a while its really not possible for most.

The body really is only good at doing one thing at a time, gaining muscle and some fat (the amount is determined by the amount of additional calories over requirement are ate) or losing fat and trying to hold muscle.
I appreciate the above, However I wanted to make the OP aware it's possible to do both with a strict eye on diet and choosing the right program. No need to get chubby when it can actually be avoided and saves work in the long term!

Alot of it is to do with knowing what works for your body which has taken me years to establish.

tj2002

471 posts

79 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Onemcs said:
You can still bulk whilst not getting fat.

I started this year at 66kg with around 9% body fat.

I now sit here 73.5kg at 7.7% body fat.

Followed two 12 week programs and even lost body fat whilst doing so.

www.bodybuilding.com is your friend here

Good luck with your training!
Just out of interest which programs did you follow. I'm just starting the 12 weak bulking trainer after doing stronglifts for a while and getting bored.

tankplanker

346 posts

165 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Onemcs said:
You can still bulk whilst not getting fat.

I started this year at 66kg with around 9% body fat.

I now sit here 73.5kg at 7.7% body fat.

Followed two 12 week programs and even lost body fat whilst doing so.

www.bodybuilding.com is your friend here

Good luck with your training!
Those are some good numbers! I work that out at about 19lbs of muscle added and a loss of a bit over half a pound of fat. The fat loss is low enough to be a change in water weight.

Optimal gain for a normal adult male not on the gear for 24 weeks would be 24lbs, but you'd pick up a fair amount of fat on top of that as well. You are always going to be compromising either muscle or fat gain on a bulk.

How you measuring your body fat?

Onemcs

322 posts

60 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
I followed the Kris Gethin 12 week program like religion. I got so good results that I then done the shortcut to size straight after. Following both of them to the letter T and the tiniest deviation here and there.

I had a BodPod test back in January at Westminster university. I went back 2 weeks ago and got my latest 7.7%. For those that aren't aware. This is this most accurate way of testing body fat out. Much better and more consistent than the calipers. Recommend it to none training seriously.

Kris Gethin has proven you can gain muscle whilst losing fat.... I even proved it right doing his program.

toastybase

914 posts

94 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
2 slices of toast for lunch followed by one press up.

Leptons

2,423 posts

62 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
balders118 said:
MocMocaMoc said:
SHutchinson said:
Have you considered steroids?
Are they worth it, in your experience?
They get you massive with little effort and as far as I'm aware there are no negative side effects. It's a no brainer!
Not true at all on so many levels....

balders118

4,241 posts

54 months

[news] 
Tuesday 21st August 2012 quote quote all
Leptons said:
balders118 said:
MocMocaMoc said:
SHutchinson said:
Have you considered steroids?
Are they worth it, in your experience?
They get you massive with little effort and as far as I'm aware there are no negative side effects. It's a no brainer!
Not true at all on so many levels....
Crikey. Read the whole thread! smile

goldblum

9,700 posts

53 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Onemcs said:
I followed the Kris Gethin 12 week program like religion. I got so good results that I then done the shortcut to size straight after. Following both of them to the letter T and the tiniest deviation here and there.

I had a BodPod test back in January at Westminster university. I went back 2 weeks ago and got my latest 7.7%. For those that aren't aware. This is this most accurate way of testing body fat out. Much better and more consistent than the calipers. Recommend it to none training seriously.

Kris Gethin has proven you can gain muscle whilst losing fat.... I even proved it right doing his program.
Water is wet,grass is green,you can gain muscle whilst losing fat.Of course you can,otherwise all our Olympians would be tubby.Purely down to diet and correct training protocols.

You're at 7.7%? Blimey well done!

Have to point out though that the way the Bodpod works is the same as hydrodensitometry ..just using air, I think they're as accurate as each other,but could be wrong.

AFAIK MRI and CT scans give the most accurate body composition estimates.

HonestIago

1,261 posts

72 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
tankplanker said:
f only they worked like that!

Most 'roids dramatically reduce your recovery time meaning you can train a lot more, and if you want to gain bulk you can keep after your cycle you need to work way harder than you would off the 'roids. For example if you do 5 working sets of bench press off cycle you'll need to do 10 working sets of bench on cycle. On the gear you can even train heavy weights twice a day on a stronger cycle, if you can manage heavy weights on the same muscle group even every day without gear then you are either a genetic freak or not lifting anywhere near heavy enough.

You also need to eat like a complete pig on a cycle as you'll be working much harder. Eating well over 3000 calories (and nearer 4000 ideally) of clean calories with a high protein macro is expensive and difficult. I eat around 2500 calories, that works out to 3 breasts of chicken a day plus sausages, a heap of eggs and protein shakes.

Gear like superdrol can give you bloat making you look bigger but you'll lose that pretty quickly once you come off cycle. A good month long cycle should see you putting on 14lbs or so of muscle, keeping at least half of that after the next months PCT (post cycle therapy). PCT is vital after a cycle as your natural hormone levels will be all over the place, and PCT should be for twice as long as the cycle. During PCT keeping your lifts up is hard, you have to drop the number of work sets to less than before (so if five work sets before the cycle, ten work sets on cycle, two or three during PCT) but still keep the weight increasing all the while you feel like rubbish.

Good results can be had in a much quicker timespan but it requires a lot of extra work and you risk damage to your body. I don't see it as cheating if you are honest about it and do not compete in any competitive sport.

Regardless if you take 'roids or not make sure you eat plenty and sleep loads. If you don't sleep enough then your body can't recover and if it can't recover you'll be getting weaker every time you lift.

Lift heavy, and most important of all is lift more each time you lift. If the weight and reps stays the same you aren't progressing, and if you aren't progressing you aren't growing muscle.
This seems a pretty good post with regard to gear.

Superdrol is a legal designer steroid but similar to a "real" compound like dianabol (maybe more potent) but with harsher sides. They're both "wet" in that you can gain a lot of waterweight/bloat which will come off post-cycle. Dry designers like Epistane/Havoc are decent for strength and you can probably keep more of the gains. They are often used for cutting as well as bulking but are harsher on joints.

I wouldn't say PCT should be twice as long as a cycle tbh. 4 weeks decent PCT with a SERM would be fine after 4-6 weeks of some designer steroid.

I personally think each to there own but anabolics are arguably best left until you have a good few years "proper" training under your belt and are nearing your natural potential.

Asterix

20,791 posts

114 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Onemcs said:
I followed the Kris Gethin 12 week program like religion. I got so good results that I then done the shortcut to size straight after. Following both of them to the letter T and the tiniest deviation here and there.

I had a BodPod test back in January at Westminster university. I went back 2 weeks ago and got my latest 7.7%. For those that aren't aware. This is this most accurate way of testing body fat out. Much better and more consistent than the calipers. Recommend it to none training seriously.

Kris Gethin has proven you can gain muscle whilst losing fat.... I even proved it right doing his program.
Looks like a good routine - I'd have to make a few changes and swap a couple of exercises due to lack of equipment in my building's gym but 90% are doable.

Did you follow the supplement guidlines as well?

pilchardthecat

7,191 posts

65 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
I was at 6%/175lbs and followed the supposed best bulking advice out there

I've since decided i just don't like the bulk/cut approach - i'd rather have a visible 6 pack all year round and not just for one or two chunks of the year. I'll take slower strength gains over looking st thanks

Caveat; some people, generally the broader, stockier types can handle double digit percentages and still look decent. I get it all in a band around the hips/waist (ie a muffin top) but the rest of me looks almost the same as at 6% so it really does look ridiculous

MocMocaMoc

Original Poster:

1,524 posts

27 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Well, it's been a couple weeks gradually eating more and more (and lifting, obv) but this week I've been trying to really eat and...

I'm f*cking sick of eating.

I'm not even sure I've made it up to my recommended calorie intake (like 3000 or so). Eating that many clean calories I b*stard hard work!!!

In case anyone's interested / wants to make a suggestion;

6am Porridge

9:30am Mackrel in olive oil + nuts

12am Smoked salmon + full tub of cottage cheese + blue and black berries

3pm More nuts

7pm Chicken breast cooked in olive oil, plus whatever green veg is about.

9pm Couple hard boiled eggs.

Should I be eating more? Because I'm really going to struggle!!!



Edited by MocMocaMoc on Wednesday 22 August 15:21

Onemcs

322 posts

60 months

[news] 
Wednesday 22nd August 2012 quote quote all
Asterix said:
Looks like a good routine - I'd have to make a few changes and swap a couple of exercises due to lack of equipment in my building's gym but 90% are doable.

Did you follow the supplement guidlines as well?
I didn't buy all the supplements but bought most of them! Really good program and a video for every day which is incredibly valuable! Most things like that you'd pay £100+ for!

pilchardthecat said:
I've since decided I just don't like the bulk/cut approach - I'd rather have a visible 6 pack all year round and not just for one or two chunks of the year
Totally agree with this pilchardthecat. I prefer this approach and haven't been over 10% for years! I've managed to bulk, from 62.5kg june last year to now at 73.5 kg and never went over 10%.

Regarding the gear, a few pals have done it and found amazing gains. Personally I'd rather not be putting that sort of stuff in me.

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