Engine oil consumption
Discussion
Does anyone on here measure this accurately enough to provide useful data?
I did a test on my 2.0 Focus Zetec with 53000 miles now on the clock during the last oil change. The Focus is stated to take 4.25 litres including a new oil filter and we checked that fairly accurately as it just took one 4 litre can plus a cupful poured into the new filter before fitting to hit the full mark on the dipstick.
The previous oil change with a 5 litre can of cheapo 5w30 semi syn 8000 miles previously had therefore left 0.75 litres for topping up which all got poured in eventually and it used that exactly as the dipstick was right on the full mark just before draining for the current change.
0.75 litres in 8000 miles = 1 litre per 10666 miles which strikes me as very good compared to some people's horror stories, eg VW engines.
I'll monitor things until the next change but would be interested in other people's data.
I did a test on my 2.0 Focus Zetec with 53000 miles now on the clock during the last oil change. The Focus is stated to take 4.25 litres including a new oil filter and we checked that fairly accurately as it just took one 4 litre can plus a cupful poured into the new filter before fitting to hit the full mark on the dipstick.
The previous oil change with a 5 litre can of cheapo 5w30 semi syn 8000 miles previously had therefore left 0.75 litres for topping up which all got poured in eventually and it used that exactly as the dipstick was right on the full mark just before draining for the current change.
0.75 litres in 8000 miles = 1 litre per 10666 miles which strikes me as very good compared to some people's horror stories, eg VW engines.
I'll monitor things until the next change but would be interested in other people's data.
That makes me think that oil dilution from blowby fuel was actually topping the sump back up. An engine can't use no oil for very good scientific reasons which have been exhaustively tested but it's quite possible for oil consumption to even appear negative if blowby is sufficient.
I've been looking at laboratory oil consumption testing data which indicate a good average for a 2 litre engine in perfect condition is 50-100 micro grams of oil consumed per engine cycle (2 revolutions for a 4 stroke) at low load / low rpm cruise type usage which equates to exactly what I've measured on mine i.e 1 litre per 10,000 miles or so.
I've been looking at laboratory oil consumption testing data which indicate a good average for a 2 litre engine in perfect condition is 50-100 micro grams of oil consumed per engine cycle (2 revolutions for a 4 stroke) at low load / low rpm cruise type usage which equates to exactly what I've measured on mine i.e 1 litre per 10,000 miles or so.
Edited by Pumaracing on Sunday 14th October 15:04
It depends on which VAG engines we're talking about. The TFSI lumps have forged pistons (Mahle) and I know from experience they promote higher oil consumption than cast ones.
I do have a fair chunk of experience with VW engines, going back to 1990 and one thing is certainly true in my experience: VW engines need driving hard from day one!! If not, oil consumption does suffer. It's no coincidence that ex-fleet VWs seem to sip oil, whereas privately owned ones drink the stuff
I've had half a dozen or so new or rebuilt VAG engines of different flavours: 4 pot NA, 4 pot turbo, 6 cyl NA, 6 Cyl turbo and an R32 engine. It's always the same. Baby them, and oil just vanishes. Cane them, oil consumption is minimal.
Somewhat irritatingly, the oil consumption is low enough to not cause smoke or fouled plugs, but high enough to notice a drop on the dipstick level. A bit like a VTEC motor then
As for why this is, I don't know, and it's true of factory and aftermarket pistons / rings. Maybe the VW iron just needs a royally good hard thrashing to bed the rings in nicely in the first few miles?
As for engines not using a drop of oil being impossible. My Dad's Rover 25 1.4 and my Mum's old 1300 Toyota Corolla beg to differ!
I do have a fair chunk of experience with VW engines, going back to 1990 and one thing is certainly true in my experience: VW engines need driving hard from day one!! If not, oil consumption does suffer. It's no coincidence that ex-fleet VWs seem to sip oil, whereas privately owned ones drink the stuff
I've had half a dozen or so new or rebuilt VAG engines of different flavours: 4 pot NA, 4 pot turbo, 6 cyl NA, 6 Cyl turbo and an R32 engine. It's always the same. Baby them, and oil just vanishes. Cane them, oil consumption is minimal.
Somewhat irritatingly, the oil consumption is low enough to not cause smoke or fouled plugs, but high enough to notice a drop on the dipstick level. A bit like a VTEC motor then
As for why this is, I don't know, and it's true of factory and aftermarket pistons / rings. Maybe the VW iron just needs a royally good hard thrashing to bed the rings in nicely in the first few miles?
As for engines not using a drop of oil being impossible. My Dad's Rover 25 1.4 and my Mum's old 1300 Toyota Corolla beg to differ!
My E30 M3 would use about 0.75lt every 7500miles or so. The harder I drove it the more it used, so generally in the summer when the roads are better.
As buying a top litre at the time was £12 compared to £36 for 4 litres, I opted to change the oil when it got to the "min" on the dipstick. So, the harder it was used, the shorter the service interval! Now there's an idea!
Steve
As buying a top litre at the time was £12 compared to £36 for 4 litres, I opted to change the oil when it got to the "min" on the dipstick. So, the harder it was used, the shorter the service interval! Now there's an idea!
Steve
Audi A6 2.5 TDI 140 straight 5. I bought this with at 112k and it's now just shy of 240k. I've done all the servicing during my ownership and when I first got it, it would do the 6k I'd allow between oil changes without any apparent drop in oil level. These days, 125k older, it'll drop from max to min over the 6k but I still don't need to add any oil between changes.
It was my bosses company car originally and was caned without mercy from delivery...... so I guess they do need to be run in vigorously! Certainly the 5 cylinder TDI vans the company has also owned have all taken around 10k to stop using oil and appear to be about fully run-in at 100k - when they are promptly sold
Nick
It was my bosses company car originally and was caned without mercy from delivery...... so I guess they do need to be run in vigorously! Certainly the 5 cylinder TDI vans the company has also owned have all taken around 10k to stop using oil and appear to be about fully run-in at 100k - when they are promptly sold
Nick
My 1275 Marina back in the late 1970s, on its final 150 mile trip with the stock engine up to my uncle's workshop to rebuild it, used all the oil in the one gallon sump after the first half of the journey, took the whole spare gallon I'd brought along for topping up and ran out of that with 5 miles to go and overheated and partially seized as we tried to climb the hills in the Derbyshire Peak District. Resorting to 1st gear and gentle throttle until we got to the final 2 mile downhill stretch I coasted it into my uncle's steep driveway and it expired in a horrible death rattle for the final time half way up that as I opened the throttle to try and climb it.
That's what's called making your destination by the skin of your teeth. I had to walk the last 20 feet.
The exhaust smoke was so bad on the M1 I couldn't see the cars behind me. Luckily there wasn't much in the way of emissions regulations back then.
That's what's called making your destination by the skin of your teeth. I had to walk the last 20 feet.
The exhaust smoke was so bad on the M1 I couldn't see the cars behind me. Luckily there wasn't much in the way of emissions regulations back then.
Pumaracing said:
The exhaust smoke was so bad on the M1 I couldn't see the cars behind me. Luckily there wasn't much in the way of emissions regulations back then.
Yep. Exactly what my Allegro used to do. I used to carry a few gallons of Duckhams Q 20W/50 in the boot at all times and it would easily burn all of that off during the week's commute, which was a daily round trip of 20 miles or so.BLs / Austins / Fords kicking out blue smoke was common in those days. I don't think I've seen a car burning oil for months now!
Funnily enough oil use is one thing I do pay attention to, simply because it mey be a useful indicator to something going wrong. Anyway, here are some selective results from my last 10yrs:
- Saab 900 2.0 iron block slant-4. Free car. hilariously good. Acquired at 180K, given away at 210K, <0.5pint difference to top-up to 'as-bought' point.
- Saab 900 2.0 turbo (T5). Even better, c.12000Miles/litre. A car I bought, turned-up the boost on cosiderably then thrashed the nuts off for 5.5years/135Kmiles, and finally gave away - at which point I handed over half a 5litre pack of synth oil I'd bought to top it up - only the second I'd had to buy barring full scrupulous changes. Given away at 220K, using no oil and still rather quick (but rusting)
- BMW E34 540: Current daily of 5years. I kept a sharp eye on this after hearing 'nikasil' internet rumour - baseless of course. Now 17rs old, 5 of those mine, averaging 7200miles/litre - not bad for a 4L V8 I think, at 110K miles. I plan to keep this for the forseeable future - it's lovely.
R1-engined BEC - Thirsty, about 2000miles/litre, perfectly normal for the Yamaha 5PW though; the engine sings past the redline (12K2), it certainly gets used that way, and the oil changed every 3K/or year's use max anyway.
Honourable mention to a previous GF's ancient Mk1 VW Polo 1.0 - a wonderful, wonderful little sewing-machine. We utterly ignored it for 6yrs /70K+ miles so it must have run on unicorn farts. Pulled the head at 150Kmiles out of boredom one weekend and the bore hone cross-hatch was still visible, and even, top-bottom, side-side, across all four. Amazing. And that was after withstanding being driven flat-out Edinburgh-Bath the time I forgot the rad cap in Carlisle - without damage... (410miles, 6hrs 5mins BTW. No, I don't think that could be repeated.)
- Saab 900 2.0 iron block slant-4. Free car. hilariously good. Acquired at 180K, given away at 210K, <0.5pint difference to top-up to 'as-bought' point.
- Saab 900 2.0 turbo (T5). Even better, c.12000Miles/litre. A car I bought, turned-up the boost on cosiderably then thrashed the nuts off for 5.5years/135Kmiles, and finally gave away - at which point I handed over half a 5litre pack of synth oil I'd bought to top it up - only the second I'd had to buy barring full scrupulous changes. Given away at 220K, using no oil and still rather quick (but rusting)
- BMW E34 540: Current daily of 5years. I kept a sharp eye on this after hearing 'nikasil' internet rumour - baseless of course. Now 17rs old, 5 of those mine, averaging 7200miles/litre - not bad for a 4L V8 I think, at 110K miles. I plan to keep this for the forseeable future - it's lovely.
R1-engined BEC - Thirsty, about 2000miles/litre, perfectly normal for the Yamaha 5PW though; the engine sings past the redline (12K2), it certainly gets used that way, and the oil changed every 3K/or year's use max anyway.
Honourable mention to a previous GF's ancient Mk1 VW Polo 1.0 - a wonderful, wonderful little sewing-machine. We utterly ignored it for 6yrs /70K+ miles so it must have run on unicorn farts. Pulled the head at 150Kmiles out of boredom one weekend and the bore hone cross-hatch was still visible, and even, top-bottom, side-side, across all four. Amazing. And that was after withstanding being driven flat-out Edinburgh-Bath the time I forgot the rad cap in Carlisle - without damage... (410miles, 6hrs 5mins BTW. No, I don't think that could be repeated.)
Edited by Huff on Wednesday 10th October 23:16
Huff said:
- BMW E34 540: Current daily of 5years. I kept a sharp eye on this after hearing 'nikasil' internet rumour - baseless of course. Now 17rs old, 5 of those mine, averaging 7200miles/litre - not bad for a 4L V8 I think, at 110K miles. I plan to keep this for the forseeable future - it's lovely.
My old E34 525i used a litre per 1000 miles at 140K old, so your V8's consumption is tiny by comparison! I really like E34s as well.Huff said:
Honourable mention to a previous GF's ancient Mk1 VW Polo 1.0 - a wonderful, wonderful little sewing-machine. We utterly ignored it for 6yrs /70K+ miles so it must have run on unicorn farts. Pulled the head at 150Kmiles out of boredom one weekend and the bore hone cross-hatch was still visible, and even, top-bottom, side-side, across all four. Amazing. And that was after withstanding being driven flat-out Edinburgh-Bath the time I forgot the rad cap in Carlisle - without damage... (410miles, 6hrs 5mins BTW. No, I don't think that could be repeated.)
Always the way isn't it. The cars you don't give a rat's arse about go on forever and use no fluids.SuperchargedVR6 said:
Somewhat irritatingly, the oil consumption is low enough to not cause smoke or fouled plugs, but high enough to notice a drop on the dipstick level. A bit like a VTEC motor then
OK, it's in a Honda Jazz 
(most inapproriate engine in a car ever ) but the VTEC engine in wifey's Jazz uses no oil at all between services and the oil stays clean too.Pumaracing said:
That makes me think that oil dilution from blowby fuel was actually topping the sump back up. An engine can't use no oil for very good scientific reasons which have been exhaustively tested but it's quite possible for oil consumption to even appear negative if blowby is sufficient.
I've been looking at laboratory testing data which indicate a good average for a 2 litre engine is 50-100 micro grams of oil per engine cycle at low load / low rpm cruise type usage which equates to exactly what I've measured on mine.
Im not really sure why you would want to get your oil lab tested, it is how it is at the end of the day. I've been looking at laboratory testing data which indicate a good average for a 2 litre engine is 50-100 micro grams of oil per engine cycle at low load / low rpm cruise type usage which equates to exactly what I've measured on mine.
Just put a good quality oil in, change it as you should or more often. Its all you can do really to prevent any problems.
Anyway if you would like to get some oil tested. Get in touch with a company called ALcontrol Laboratories in Conway Tel - 01492 574750. ( im nothing to do with the company )
We use them to get oil samples at work. Dont think it costs very much but we probably get a cheap rate. You just send a small sample off in the post and you get the results back within a few days / week.
Pumaracing said:
That makes me think that oil dilution from blowby fuel was actually topping the sump back up. An engine can't use no oil for very good scientific reasons which have been exhaustively tested but it's quite possible for oil consumption to even appear negative if blowby is sufficient.
I've been looking at laboratory testing data which indicate a good average for a 2 litre engine is 50-100 micro grams of oil per engine cycle at low load / low rpm cruise type usage which equates to exactly what I've measured on mine.
Hang on... I'm a little confused at why you jump to the conclusion that your engine is not suffering any oil dilution. Surely it is just as likely that yours is diluting the oil massively and also burning off slightly more than it diluted it by.I've been looking at laboratory testing data which indicate a good average for a 2 litre engine is 50-100 micro grams of oil per engine cycle at low load / low rpm cruise type usage which equates to exactly what I've measured on mine.
The oil consumption of my daily driver '86 Opel Rekord (Vauxhall Carlton to you) 2.0S was one litre per 1000 kilometers when i bought it, with 100.000 kilometers on the clock.
After flushing the engine out it was almost unbelievable how much dirty sludge came out.
I religiously change the oil and filter every 5000 kilometers, and use 10 w 40 in the winter and 20 w 50 in the summer.
Oil consumption went down to one litre per 5000 kilometers, so no need to top up.
With almost 140.000 on the clock now the engine is still running great, just love this old cast iron lump of an engine.
Would like to get a little more power from it, Opel says they were 100bhp from new, i think it was closer to 90 in reality, still it can take the car up to near 170 km/h (about 105 mph) quite easily.
Some work on the cylinder head, Weber replacement carburettor, bigger downpipes and exhaust system and of course a good set-up on the rollers.
After flushing the engine out it was almost unbelievable how much dirty sludge came out.
I religiously change the oil and filter every 5000 kilometers, and use 10 w 40 in the winter and 20 w 50 in the summer.
Oil consumption went down to one litre per 5000 kilometers, so no need to top up.
With almost 140.000 on the clock now the engine is still running great, just love this old cast iron lump of an engine.
Would like to get a little more power from it, Opel says they were 100bhp from new, i think it was closer to 90 in reality, still it can take the car up to near 170 km/h (about 105 mph) quite easily.
Some work on the cylinder head, Weber replacement carburettor, bigger downpipes and exhaust system and of course a good set-up on the rollers.
Had an Alfa 147 2.0 for a week now. It's done 120K miles. Changed the oil exactly 434 miles ago and during that time it appears to have scoffed over 1 litre of oil!
Surely that much consumption would cause blue smoke? There are no leaks and there's not a hint of smoke. Not even after half a mile of over-run down a hill and then planting it at the bottom. Weird.
So it's getting the cheap stuff from now on then
Surely that much consumption would cause blue smoke? There are no leaks and there's not a hint of smoke. Not even after half a mile of over-run down a hill and then planting it at the bottom. Weird.
So it's getting the cheap stuff from now on then
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