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Prancing Hippo

Original Poster:

155 posts

34 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Looking for some advice please... I am thinking of selling my 997 Turbo and getting a F430 as a replacement. Anyone have experience of comparable running costs of the two, or what the F430 is like to use regularly on 'real life' roads / towns etc, and in the wet. Many thanks!

franki68

2,538 posts

107 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Prancing Hippo said:
Looking for some advice please... I am thinking of selling my 997 Turbo and getting a F430 as a replacement. Anyone have experience of comparable running costs of the two, or what the F430 is like to use regularly on 'real life' roads / towns etc, and in the wet. Many thanks!
I think in such circumstances you have to balance running costs which will be substantially more in the ferrari against depreciation which would depend on how old your turbo is ,the ferrari may cost 2k a year more to run,but may suffer less depreiciation (depending on if your turbo has done the bulk of its depereciation yet.)

carpov

149 posts

47 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
I suspect the 991 turbo will have an adverse effect on the 997 values. That's why I got out when I did.

rosino

675 posts

58 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Depreciation aside (which is an important factor I give you that) the running costs of the f430 are likely to be substantially higher.

- Consider annual service vs 2yr for porker.
- reliability.. Fezza comprehensive warranty (which is available only up to 5yrs of age anyways) costs 3.5k. The porker can be had up to 9yrs with less than 2k
- porker will not suffer much of a daily usage, f430 likely to not really appreciate town driving with f1 box, parking uphill etc etc. Clutch even if used considerately will go much faster than porker.

And am sure much more... Bottom line is that I think the f430 is still an exotica compared to the 911... Sounds better, looks special and will be much more flash. 911 blends in, including in your lifestyle. As a second car for special days on good roads f430 any day. As main car on mostly rubbish roads except for the odd Sunday blast.. 911.

steelej

1,679 posts

93 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
rosino said:
- reliability.. Fezza comprehensive warranty (which is available only up to 5yrs of age anyways) costs 3.5k. The porker can be had up to 9yrs with less than 2k
Different levels of warranty are available for the 430, if you buy a car that's still within manufacturers warranty you can extend power cube until year 5 as stated, if you buy an approved used car that's out of original warranty it's the power normal warranty which can be added upto year 7 at a cost of 2.5k per year, it covers quite a bit, then you can add power train until the car is 10 years old, it only covers the main engine gearbox, don't know how much power train is.

John.
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kbf1981

1,698 posts

86 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Prancing Hippo said:
Looking for some advice please... I am thinking of selling my 997 Turbo and getting a F430 as a replacement. Anyone have experience of comparable running costs of the two, or what the F430 is like to use regularly on 'real life' roads / towns etc, and in the wet. Many thanks!
F430 = 10-15mpg
997TT = 25mpg+

Insurance, servicing, fixing things, all much more on the F430.
Build quality much worse on F430.
F430 much more fun, much much more of an event, and maybe more comfy? More of an event day to day.
Speed wise much of a muchness.

I'd try both and see which you prefer.

lambo_xx

2,063 posts

83 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Prancing Hippo said:
Looking for some advice please... I am thinking of selling my 997 Turbo and getting a F430 as a replacement. Anyone have experience of comparable running costs of the two, or what the F430 is like to use regularly on 'real life' roads / towns etc, and in the wet. Many thanks!
I used a 430 Spider as my main car a couple years ago, I then decided to be sensible so I bought a 977 Turbo to use every day.

Running costs wise, fuel is worse depending how you drive, not the end of the world though.
Servicing needs done every year in the 430 whereas it's every 2 in the Porsche.
Ferrari is slightly twitchy in the wet, as long as you keep an eye on it you’ll be ok. It won’t however, be as sure footed as the Turbo.

Regarding using it every day, it can easily be done, however I recommend either having or having access to another car. The Ferrari is quite terrible in the snow (If like me you were insane enough to take it out in the snow biggrin). Also there are times/places where you will worry leaving you Ferrari parked, hence why it's always good to have another car.

In a nutshell, good car, could be used every day but life would be made easier if you have a spare car as well.

Good luck keep us informed!

LukeyLikey

714 posts

33 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
I can certainly echo all the above. I have an 06 Spider F1. I haven't had a 911 Turbo but had a C4S. The Ferrari is just a whole other league in terms of ownership experience - the benefits and the costs.

You get what you pay for. If you will use it as an only car you need to be quite committed and to some degree it might lose some of the benefit that you're paying for, namely that an F430 is a really special experience, made all the better for me because I don't drive it everyday and have to choose my moments.

To say the build quality is worse is not exactly right, perhaps it is better to say the philosophy is different and the priorities are in different areas to a Porsche. (The original 911 design was for practicality purposes - for instance it was rear engined to allow four seats).

430s are mechanically very good but are built to push the envelope further. So, they are more highly strung (a bit of a generalisation but I think it is right).

This means that they are built to thrill more of the time but this give compromises in other areas - you will go through suspension components, have awkward mechanical issues that are not always easy to find because the engines have very high specific power outputs and it seems to me a bit less thought has been put into ease of service (I've had the hood cartridge out twice for different issues this year - 10 hrs a pop).

I don't think you can average less than £5k per year if you want to keep on top of things and it could go higher.

I've had a 360 Spider, a 430 Spider and also a 360 CS which all originate from the same body and tub, with similar components for suspension and brakes etc. (similar not the same) so I am starting to get quite familiar with the issues.

If you read the forums the common issues are pretty well documented and you can pick up a lot of information. Lots of people say they spend nothing other than routine servicing but I have bought three, all from reputable dealers, all good cars but all needing similar spend. I can't comment on other people's experiences but mine are now quite consistent.

Absolutely worth it though.

jackal

10,765 posts

168 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Just to point out that if threads on the porsche forum are anything to go by, the 997 turbo is not exactly a paradigm of reliability. Most owners recommend a warranty as a must and state that they have had plenty of work done over their time of ownership. The bills arent cheap either. I am not saying it will be more expensive than a 430 but that they do have their own issues and can need plenty of maintenance.

andrew

7,057 posts

78 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
i'm not quite in the same boat but...

running costs on my italian car are so much higher than on the 911, that it made sense to keep both so as to keep the miles off the italian

...just an idea

[ edited for grandad's benefit ]

Edited by andrew on Wednesday 3rd October 11:27

AndrewD

5,275 posts

170 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
andrew said:
i'm not quite in the same boat but...

running costs on my italian are so much higher than on the 911, that it made sense to keep both so as to keep the miles off the italian

...just an idea
Newsflash! No matter what he tells you, he isn't Italian hehe


martisracing

135 posts

75 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
I sold my 997 Turbo to buy a 430 Spider. I bought the Turbo to use as a daily runner. I used it for ski trips (I had a set of winter wheels for it) and in all weathers. It was never really used on sunny days as I have an LP560 for those occaisions. The problem was that I started not to use it every day and then it became a bit pointless. As a special occasion it is rather a souless car. I replaced it with a 430 spider and for those special occaisions it is so much more of an experience than the turbo.
I had the turbo for 18 months and I have now had the 430 for 18 months. I had to pay for one service for the Turbo and so far and one service for the 430. If you negotiate an annual 430 is about the same as bi annual for a Turbo. I had to but 2 new rear tyres for the turbo as a result of a puncture and non for the 430.
Fuel consumption averaged for me about 18 mpg for the 430 and 24 mpg for the turbo.
Insurance a fraction more for the 430 compared to the turbo.
If you read the Porsche forum the turbos have a couple of renowned issues. These being radaitor water leaks and leaking oil seals (both expensive to rectify). I also had interior steaming up issues as a result of door diaphragms failing (another known issue).
Looking on Ferrari forums the 430 seems to have only the manifold issue on pre 2008 cars and wearing suspension bushes.
As others have said (and I totally agree) if you want a car for that special occaision it has to be the 430, if you have to use it every day (and are going to use it daily) then the 997 turbo is the better option.
Another issue with Porsche is that there are repeated moans about the used Porsche warranty in that everything must be done at a Porsche dealer using Porsche parts. There have been listings of totally unrelated claims being rejected as the owner fitted an alternative branded battery to exactly the same specification as the Porsche branded battery!

Prancing Hippo

Original Poster:

155 posts

34 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Thanks everyone, some really good points made. I had not (stupidly) thought about the depreciation issue. I tend to agree that 997 Turbo's will go down. Mine is a 2006 with 52,000 km on the clock (not living in UK at the moment) and worth around EUR 60 - 65,000 I guess. I like the 'practicality' of the 2 seats in the back as it means I can use it for weekends away etc, which could be challenge with the F430. Roads here (Czech Republic) can be a bit bumpy and in winter icy / snowy (everyone uses winter tyres here as required by law), and though not essential, 4WD does give one a bit more security. I had a scarey moment in the UK 2 winters ago in a 575 I had which I don't relish repeating, but assume the 'snow / ice' setting on the F430 plus winter tyres means it is manageable in normal winter conditions if one drives appropriately.

The 'problem' with the Turbo for me is though it is a great car, it does not give me the same buzz as the 575 or 550 gave me... I am between a rock and a hard place - the practicality of the 911 means I can use it more, but it is still a 2nd / 3rd car. I would love the F430, but servicing here will be very expensive, and it will be less useable. I know I will get more of a thrill out of the F430 on the times I do drive it though...

Does anyone think F430's will depreciate much more over the next 6 months or so?

Thanks for everyones help! Really appreciated (but stil can't make up my mind!!

LukeyLikey

714 posts

33 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Sounds to me like you need to go the 430 route - otherwise you wouldn't still be asking. If the logic of the 911 appealed strongly enough to you, you wouldn't be asking the question anymore. From my experience, when your backside is sitting in the driver's seat of your own 430, you will start to invent logic that ends up with "I'm so glad I chose the Ferrari!"

If the words 'fantastically irrational' get you thinking "yeah, right on!" then it's time to get your chequebook out!!

jackal

10,765 posts

168 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
remember also that a 997Turbo does NOT compare with a 430 .... they are not equals

ferrai folk who are not that familiar with porsches always assume that the turbo is the alternative to an F/lambo because its the more expensive and faster car in the range but they couldn't be further form the truth

the 911 turbo has always been the most lifeless, most GT-like, most foolproof car in the 911 range

a 997 turbo should be compared to a 612 Scag

and a 430 to a Carerra S or comfort GT3

a stradale to an RS

etc..

AndyBrew

2,745 posts

105 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Just getting my Scud serviced at Graypaul in Nottingham it's a 2nd annual all in it's £999 including collection and delivery plus they are replacing some suspension components under warranty, now I don't think that's too bad, all well worth the Ferrari ownership experience.

carpov

149 posts

47 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
martisracing said:
If you read the Porsche forum the turbos have a couple of renowned issues. These being radaitor water leaks and leaking oil seals (both expensive to rectify).
Just to balance this up, it cost me about £400 to have a replacement radiator, and I think the leaking oil seal was a 996 issue.
I'm still in favour of the 430 though!

Prancing Hippo

Original Poster:

155 posts

34 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Sorry for asking a question that clearly shows how soft I am, but has anyone done any long European trips in a 430? Do you get out feeling like you have been through a rodeo and deaf or are they OK?

I am off to Munich this weekend to look at a few and take some for a test drive (impossible to do this in Prague...!).

jackal

10,765 posts

168 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Prancing Hippo said:
Sorry for asking a question that clearly shows how soft I am, but has anyone done any long European trips in a 430? Do you get out feeling like you have been through a rodeo and deaf or are they OK?

I am off to Munich this weekend to look at a few and take some for a test drive (impossible to do this in Prague...!).
It's all relative I'd say. Some of us are comfortable going across Europe in an aeroscreened 115db caterham R500. To me a 430 is a very soft car in the scheme of things, with very soft spring rates and really supple in its overall feel ... in fact ideally suited to rough UK roads especially when you compare it to cars like the GT3. I would imagine getting out at Juan Les Pins feeling right as rain.

Prancing Hippo

Original Poster:

155 posts

34 months

[news] 
Tuesday 27th November 2012 quote quote all
Thought I should update at least following everyones useful advice. Went to Munich with the Mrs - so 2 people in the car with all the gubbins that goes with a weekend away (toothbrush for me and kitchen sink for her). Had a great weekend driving the 911 with conditions from perfect sunshine to heavy downours, high winds and sleet, on roads from autobahns to windy A-roads going up the Alps to Garmisch. 911 was a pleasure in all conditions.

F430 looked fantastic, but drive was spoilt by a broken drivers seat, which meant my driving position was basically upright with nose a few cms from the windscreen. Lots of small niggles on the car (looked worn considering miles, few scratches, cracked hubcaps, broken aircon outlet etc). These niggles are of course specific to that car and should not detract from the drive etc of course, but they do 'add' to the experience.

Summary was I have a new found love for the 911, so will keep it (for now). At the end of the day, I have always loved Ferrari's more, and I will be back in another one soon, but perhaps in 12 months. Prices for 612's looking quite tempting, and I love the 575 in every way...

Thanks for the advice again everyone!
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