RE: 20 years of the Gatso

Friday 12th October 2012

20 years of the Gatso

An unhappy anniversary as we (don't) celebrate two decades of camera-based speed limit enforcement



Tomorrow (October 13, appropriately enough...) marks a birthday most here will probably want to forget. According to Transport for London it was 20 years to the day that Britain's first speed camera was activated, a Gatso device on Twickenham Bridge on the A316 in south west London.

Has it really been two decades?
Has it really been two decades?
The westbound stretch was called an "accident blackspot" by then Minister for Transport in London, Steven Norris, who was quoted in the Richmond and Twickenham Times the following week.

Judging from data from the camera trial, drivers certainly hoofed it round this 40mph-limited right-hand bend. The police officer leading the camera program, Roger Reynolds, told the paper the trial camera snapped 22,939 drivers travelling over 65mph in just 22 days.

And when it was switched on, it caught 20 cars running over 70mph in the first week. Hilariously the drivers faced not just a fine (income dependent) but 'possible disqualification', according to the paper. You could be caught doing anything up to double the urban speed limit and still just receive the £32 fixed penalty notice.

From simple beginnings cameras have grown
From simple beginnings cameras have grown
PistonHeads tracked down Reynolds, now retired from the police force, to ask him about that comparative early leniency. "Speeding's a pyramid," he told us. "Everybody speeds, but in a 30 most are doing 30-35mph, fewer are doing 40-45mph and at the top people are doing 60mph. So we said let's start at the top."

He said that Twickenham camera was only set to flash at 60mph. "The whole point was remind people about speed, not to catch them." To that end he said only one in eight of the early cameras actually had the full £10,000 worth of kit inside them. The rest just had a rudimentary version of the Doppler radar - just enough to set off a flash but costing only £1,000.

Even today, the AA reckons only about 500-600 cameras can actually log your speed.

Cameras now a factor of everyday driving
Cameras now a factor of everyday driving
Reynolds went on to oversee London's camera network, but after he left the police in 1999 he became angry at the escalation of fines and the ever lower reduction in trigger speed. Especially when the 'netting off' system in 2000 let local authorities keep a percentage of the income.

"When you put a camera in, the number of speeders always reduces. Suddenly there's no money coming in, so they drop the trigger speed from 38mph to 35mph to pay the bills," he told us. "What good it does it do? It just alienates you from the public."

So yes, birthday wishes to the Gatso, but very few GOOD wishes.

 

Author
Discussion

markeyturbo

Original Poster:

54 posts

150 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
slight change of subject, but has anyone actually been caught by a 'specs' camera?

i dont know anyone that has, are they real or just a massively expensive scaremongering technique?

SS2.

14,450 posts

237 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
markeyturbo said:
slight change of subject, but has anyone actually been caught by a 'specs' camera?..
Yes.

And no, not me.

WCZ

10,483 posts

193 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
"Even today, the AA reckons only about 500-600 cameras can actually log your speed."

I've been terribly unlucky then.

I hate Speed Cameras.

P4ROT

1,219 posts

192 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
Lets see if we can get a 0 avg from 1000 users.....the last quote says it all really mad

y2blade

56,029 posts

214 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
rated "0"

PH lurker

1,301 posts

156 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all

It's sad that it has all happened really.
Good report from PH though.

Denver09

134 posts

186 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
I received 6 points in one month by these things and I rarely speed. I was just unlucky.

28 in a 20 going across tower bridge at midnight and 38 in a 30. The fines, although not welcome, are acceptable, but the points are punitive for this sort of driving offence.

I know have a road angel and a dashcam to level the playing field

HorneyMX5

5,306 posts

149 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
Rated 0 although, touch wood, never been caught by one.

Nick

900T-R

20,403 posts

256 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
Here in The Netherlands, we have 10 million speeding fines per annum on 8 million cars. All the other offences put together, including parking fines (another 0.6 million or so), barely top 1 million. Of course, 9 out of 10 speeding tickets are from mobile scameras put under bridges and behind sound barriers etc. ...

And the first thing the government does at the start of a new budget year, is jack up the dracionian tariffs even further...

Comparatively, the UK still has it good.

GranCab

2,902 posts

145 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
900T-R said:
Here in The Netherlands, we have 10 million speeding fines per annum on 8 million cars. All the other offences put together, including parking fines (another 0.6 million or so), barely top 1 million. Of course, 9 out of 10 speeding tickets are from mobile scameras put under bridges and behind sound barriers etc. ...

And the first thing the government does at the start of a new budget year, is jack up the dracionian tariffs even further...

Comparatively, the UK still has it good.
I was told - a few years ago - by a Dutch guy from a company I deal with that they have cameras disguised in rubbish bins at the side of the road in parts of the Netherlands and along with the "slurp tax" it makes buying and driving an expensive/fast car was a waste of time and money.

billzeebub

3,862 posts

198 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
markeyturbo said:
slight change of subject, but has anyone actually been caught by a 'specs' camera?

i dont know anyone that has, are they real or just a massively expensive scaremongering technique?
people don't get caught by them because they drive through knuckles gripping the wheel tight fixated on their speedo (to the detriment of all that is going on outside the car)

Vantagefan

643 posts

169 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
900T-R said:
Here in The Netherlands, we have 10 million speeding fines per annum on 8 million cars. All the other offences put together, including parking fines (another 0.6 million or so), barely top 1 million. Of course, 9 out of 10 speeding tickets are from mobile scameras put under bridges and behind sound barriers etc. ...

And the first thing the government does at the start of a new budget year, is jack up the dracionian tariffs even further...

Comparatively, the UK still has it good.
In New Zealand there weren't any rules on needing to be visible when using a mobile camera and with fewer cars on the road there is no-one to flash a warning. Luckily I'm a good boy and don't speed but at least we get a degree of warning.

900T-R

20,403 posts

256 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
GranCab said:
I was told - a few years ago - by a Dutch guy from a company I deal with that they have cameras disguised in rubbish bins at the side of the road in parts of the Netherlands
Indeed I can confirm that the 'flasher info' on our radio stations have reports of mobile scameras put in bins on an almost daily basis.

I've been caught out once by a scamera that was sited behind a small trailer which was purposely put on (and blocking) the sidewalk...

998420

900 posts

150 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
I still feel very guilty about this, I lived near St Margarets at the time and with a number of friends we often discussed burning / destroying this thing many times, if we had, they would have likely been deemed unusable, we didn't, now they are everywhere....

One of my life's biggest regrets, my chance to change Society for the better, and I failed. frown

I once indirectly got caught for speeding by it, I slowed down for it and in doing so a plain clothes car caught up with me, stupidly I thought they "had not got me" ... but it turned out they had, all the way from Richmond Circus.

y2blade

56,029 posts

214 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
HorneyMX5 said:
Rated 0 although, touch wood, never been caught by one.

Nick
Same here.
I think you have to be pretty unobservant/careless to get caught by a fixed camera tbh.



Mill Wheel

6,149 posts

195 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
Surely the real issue is that of the limit being set correctly.
THEN there is the issue of the camera's inflexibility - not taking into account of conditions etc. and reliability.
Is it REALLY acceptable that innocent drivers are being penalised for offences that they have not committed - no matter how few?

If they were any good as a safety device, nobody would be getting caught by them after 20 years!

Twincam16

27,646 posts

257 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
markeyturbo said:
slight change of subject, but has anyone actually been caught by a 'specs' camera?

i dont know anyone that has, are they real or just a massively expensive scaremongering technique?
I know someone who has (a borderline-muppet mate of mine who otherwise spends a lot of time lecturing people about driving too fast, but is an avowed member of the 39mph club).

However, I've yet to hear of anyone being caught by average speed cameras.

seaodyssey

28 posts

223 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
"drivers certainly hoofed it round this 40mph-limited right-hand bend. The police officer leading the camera program, Roger Reynolds, told the paper the trial camera snapped 22,939 drivers travelling over 65mph in just 22 days."

just shows the speed limit was wrong, otherwise there should have been lots more accidents.

Madmatt74

273 posts

156 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
My boss got caught on the M25 just north of the Dartford tunnel when they had roadworks before the Olympics. 59 in a 50.

I've never heard anyone get caught on the fixed varible speed cameras tho.

Its getting silly around here with motorway cameras.
Most of the south section of the M25 has them although im not sure they work.
A1M has them from M25 to Milton Keynes.
M2 or 20 (Cant remember) has varible cameras now.


Zumbruk

7,848 posts

259 months

Friday 12th October 2012
quotequote all
billzeebub said:
people don't get caught by them [SPECS] because they drive through knuckles gripping the wheel tight fixated on their speedo (to the detriment of all that is going on outside the car)
That's what cruise control is for.