Tell me about BMW 645s please
Discussion
Hey
Im trying to get as much information as possible regarding my next car.
So far its a toss up between the following:
Audi S4 convertible
BMW M3 E46
Mercedes CLK 55 AMG
BMW 645
I've done similar post few months back on the M-Power forum and the Mercedes forums here.
Just wanted to know few things really.
What are they like to drive? And as a day to day car and regarding size?
What is the auto box like? (with ability to shift manually)
Performance?
Servicing?
MPG?
Sought after options/extras to try and get? Panoramic roof, convertible etc.
How is the idrive? I know a lot of people complain about them.
I just want as much info as possible really, i know the look isn't too everyones taste. The front is a bit ugly
but the side and ass is nice 
Thanks guys
Im trying to get as much information as possible regarding my next car.
So far its a toss up between the following:
Audi S4 convertible
BMW M3 E46
Mercedes CLK 55 AMG
BMW 645
I've done similar post few months back on the M-Power forum and the Mercedes forums here.
Just wanted to know few things really.
What are they like to drive? And as a day to day car and regarding size?
What is the auto box like? (with ability to shift manually)
Performance?
Servicing?
MPG?
Sought after options/extras to try and get? Panoramic roof, convertible etc.
How is the idrive? I know a lot of people complain about them.
I just want as much info as possible really, i know the look isn't too everyones taste. The front is a bit ugly
but the side and ass is nice Thanks guys
They're alright, a bit like a giant Ford Probe with a bland interior and sizeable running costs. They go quite well and do most things quite well but they somehow don't have any real sparkle and they don't have the feelgood factor that the 8 Series or Mercedes CL had. They feel like a big heavy tank to drive.
If you want one: plenty of issues! PAS racks are a common fail along with multiple engine oil leaks, autobox glitches and everything else that happens with an ageing and highly complex and heavy car. Alloy panels corrode from under trim trips such as the tops of the doors. You could be lucky and have a completely reliable one - they're generally okay - but they can easily land you with a 2 grand bill at the drop of a hat. Serious OMG problems include the coolant cross tube under the inlet manifold, a multi thousand pound engine out repair unless you fit one of the replacement pipes from the US - that's only a grand or so to do :-)
Of that lot, the E46 M3 is the one to have, a nice manual transmission Coupe. It's the one that's going to hold it's value the longest, prove cheapest to run and be a bit special. They are surprisingly strong and reliable, will do 30 mpg with ease if you're careful. Finding a good one that's been well maintained by a careful owner and not ragged to death may be the issue - plenty of s
theaps with cheap suepsnion kits, non matching budget tyres and a 'lost' service book around. Eight grand will buy a nice one with around 70'000 miles but don't get hung up 18 inch wheels or outdated satnav.
If you want one: plenty of issues! PAS racks are a common fail along with multiple engine oil leaks, autobox glitches and everything else that happens with an ageing and highly complex and heavy car. Alloy panels corrode from under trim trips such as the tops of the doors. You could be lucky and have a completely reliable one - they're generally okay - but they can easily land you with a 2 grand bill at the drop of a hat. Serious OMG problems include the coolant cross tube under the inlet manifold, a multi thousand pound engine out repair unless you fit one of the replacement pipes from the US - that's only a grand or so to do :-)
Of that lot, the E46 M3 is the one to have, a nice manual transmission Coupe. It's the one that's going to hold it's value the longest, prove cheapest to run and be a bit special. They are surprisingly strong and reliable, will do 30 mpg with ease if you're careful. Finding a good one that's been well maintained by a careful owner and not ragged to death may be the issue - plenty of s
theaps with cheap suepsnion kits, non matching budget tyres and a 'lost' service book around. Eight grand will buy a nice one with around 70'000 miles but don't get hung up 18 inch wheels or outdated satnav.bland interior? what car are you coming from....then saying the E46.....as nice as the E46 interior is, it ain't as nice as a 6ers!
only 6er i've been in (in E63 flavour) is an M6 so can't comment on the rest but really didn't feel like a huge tank of a thing and was so, so comfortable.
i see what you mean about the interior. so bland and boring
looks nice to me
only 6er i've been in (in E63 flavour) is an M6 so can't comment on the rest but really didn't feel like a huge tank of a thing and was so, so comfortable.
i see what you mean about the interior. so bland and boring
looks nice to me
Edited by E38Ross on Friday 19th October 14:24
Thanks isore.
Keep them coming!
I actually made a little chart and the M3 did out point the others, but as you said finding a clean one is near on impossible. Far too many been ragged to death
.
I wouldn't have manual though lol, fancy trying my luck at the smg.
The 6 series interior isn't so bad, but shame to hear its not very special to drive and many things fail. I thought they were suppose to be pretty strong?
Keep them coming!
I actually made a little chart and the M3 did out point the others, but as you said finding a clean one is near on impossible. Far too many been ragged to death
.I wouldn't have manual though lol, fancy trying my luck at the smg.
The 6 series interior isn't so bad, but shame to hear its not very special to drive and many things fail. I thought they were suppose to be pretty strong?
E38Ross said:
Edited by E38Ross on Friday 19th October 14:24
If the OP wants an E63, the 630i is the one to have and most of those are Sports. They go quite well yet are rather better on fuel and handle better.
I'm with Ross on this one, how can you say the e63 has a bland interior when comparing it to the e46??
I was recently after an e46 M3 but in the end went for an e63 650i. Both cars could have expensive bills, the e46 suffers from issues such as subframe cracks and smg faults (although i was after a manual) and also have the 'M tax'.
One of the reasons i went for the 650 as i liked the idea of torque, not having to rev the nads off it to get it to move. I had an e39 before too, and it was suggested that the e46 might seem rattly etc after the e39.
I love the e63 interior too, and it sounds amazing!
I was recently after an e46 M3 but in the end went for an e63 650i. Both cars could have expensive bills, the e46 suffers from issues such as subframe cracks and smg faults (although i was after a manual) and also have the 'M tax'.
One of the reasons i went for the 650 as i liked the idea of torque, not having to rev the nads off it to get it to move. I had an e39 before too, and it was suggested that the e46 might seem rattly etc after the e39.
I love the e63 interior too, and it sounds amazing!
Skipraider said:
I'm with Ross on this one, how can you say the e63 has a bland interior when comparing it to the e46??
I was recently after an e46 M3 but in the end went for an e63 650i. Both cars could have expensive bills, the e46 suffers from issues such as subframe cracks and smg faults (although i was after a manual) and also have the 'M tax'.
One of the reasons i went for the 650 as i liked the idea of torque, not having to rev the nads off it to get it to move. I had an e39 before too, and it was suggested that the e46 might seem rattly etc after the e39.
I love the e63 interior too, and it sounds amazing!
love the interior colour combo you have there! this is the M6 i went out in.I was recently after an e46 M3 but in the end went for an e63 650i. Both cars could have expensive bills, the e46 suffers from issues such as subframe cracks and smg faults (although i was after a manual) and also have the 'M tax'.
One of the reasons i went for the 650 as i liked the idea of torque, not having to rev the nads off it to get it to move. I had an e39 before too, and it was suggested that the e46 might seem rattly etc after the e39.
I love the e63 interior too, and it sounds amazing!
I have owned 3 E46 M3 Convertibles and a 645 convertible. Personally the E46 M3 is fantastic especially the SMG gearbox but you have to get one which doesnt have too many owners and reasobale mileage. I then went to a 645 convertible and its totally different, the pick up in comparison is sluggish but its a beautiful car but no real fun.
You will feel the ride in the e46 but the 645 is smooth, the gearbox is boring and dont be fooled by the auto which allows to switch and drive as manual - it is miles behind the SMG and driving that in manual mode is so much fun!!
Both cars are expensive in terms of maintenance but common problems which I encountered with the 645 were oil leak had to replace sump, major problems with the Sat Nav/i drive. The M3 common problem I had was roof getting stuck and often having to replace sensors but then again I had 2 roof sensors go on the 645 2 weeks after the first one went.
In terms of economy, the M3 gave me about 200 just in town driving whereas the 645 gave 235 miles on a full tank.
I now have the new M3 convertible but I would love the new 6 series convertible but going back to what i said, the big difference is the M3 is such a fun car but it can get to you cause you feel everything where as the 645 is much more confortable and smoother but not the raw power you get from a E46 M3, an unbelievable sound from the exhaust and if you get the convertible with the hardtop then i still think its one of the best looking cares out there.
For your info a mate of mine sold a 06 plate with 50k miles, BMW warranty, 2 owners with hardtop for £13k 8 weeks ago. My brother in law sold his 54 plate with 75k miles for £10.5k 2 weeks ago, sold the hardtop separate for £500. Both in carbon black which I believe is the best colour for the E46 M3's
You will feel the ride in the e46 but the 645 is smooth, the gearbox is boring and dont be fooled by the auto which allows to switch and drive as manual - it is miles behind the SMG and driving that in manual mode is so much fun!!
Both cars are expensive in terms of maintenance but common problems which I encountered with the 645 were oil leak had to replace sump, major problems with the Sat Nav/i drive. The M3 common problem I had was roof getting stuck and often having to replace sensors but then again I had 2 roof sensors go on the 645 2 weeks after the first one went.
In terms of economy, the M3 gave me about 200 just in town driving whereas the 645 gave 235 miles on a full tank.
I now have the new M3 convertible but I would love the new 6 series convertible but going back to what i said, the big difference is the M3 is such a fun car but it can get to you cause you feel everything where as the 645 is much more confortable and smoother but not the raw power you get from a E46 M3, an unbelievable sound from the exhaust and if you get the convertible with the hardtop then i still think its one of the best looking cares out there.
For your info a mate of mine sold a 06 plate with 50k miles, BMW warranty, 2 owners with hardtop for £13k 8 weeks ago. My brother in law sold his 54 plate with 75k miles for £10.5k 2 weeks ago, sold the hardtop separate for £500. Both in carbon black which I believe is the best colour for the E46 M3's
Edited by ik186 on Friday 19th October 22:36
Edited by ik186 on Friday 19th October 22:37
In terms of both cars could have massive expensive bills, i guess thats the same with all the 4 cars i have listed and in fact any car?
I brought a ford cougar (don't) lol, as a stop gap. In fact from a E36 M3 evo. And the ABS totally went, would of cost over almost 2k to fix.
With my E36 M3 evo i brought the SMG I (Again, dont lol). And it just spent its entire time error coding! The bill for a smg service was 2.6k.
I hear the SMG II are much better if been looked after and serviced well.
I actually quite like the 6 series interior, it definitely is a place you want to be for a long drive.
The E46 interior does look bit dated now but i have seen so many shabby examples so thats probably why.
Any more input on the 6 series is appreciated.
I brought a ford cougar (don't) lol, as a stop gap. In fact from a E36 M3 evo. And the ABS totally went, would of cost over almost 2k to fix.
With my E36 M3 evo i brought the SMG I (Again, dont lol). And it just spent its entire time error coding! The bill for a smg service was 2.6k.
I hear the SMG II are much better if been looked after and serviced well.
I actually quite like the 6 series interior, it definitely is a place you want to be for a long drive.
The E46 interior does look bit dated now but i have seen so many shabby examples so thats probably why.
Any more input on the 6 series is appreciated.
Thanks Ik186
Thats pretty much the conclusion i came too, you'd be surprised how many dog M3s with vinyl wraps etc there are on for sale.
Everyone does say the same thing, careful mature owner.
I will be renting a S4 cabrio for a few days, to see how i can 'live' with it but i hear its got the worse MPG out of the lot.
Thats pretty much the conclusion i came too, you'd be surprised how many dog M3s with vinyl wraps etc there are on for sale.
Everyone does say the same thing, careful mature owner.
I will be renting a S4 cabrio for a few days, to see how i can 'live' with it but i hear its got the worse MPG out of the lot.
Hi,
I have a 2005 650, dark blue with cream interior. I have had it for 18 months and run it from 48k to 78k miles. Issues; 1 x wheel bearing (£150) and one gearbox sump seal (£220). Everything works as it should and it is a sublime car for covering distances. If you get the dynamic drive option, it corners very flat. Sport is quite firm, but I like the way it rides.
Nice things to have
Adaptive drive: excellent
Exclusive leather - makes a big difference.
Head up display: once you get used to this, you would never go without
Logic 7 sounds: worthwhile.
Adaptive cruise control - I like it.
Adaptive headlamps -
Cup holder; do not have the optional one, but it looks great.
Not so important High Beam assist & voice control.
Cannot comment on the sun roof, as never tried one.
The only thing that I did not like was the steering wheel, which I had recovered and posted on here about it.
I think it feels special every time I drive it. It goes very well and is reasonably economical. My normal drive to work is 240 motorway miles @ 80 - 85 leptons and it is 29 - 32 MPG, most times. I have been very pleased with mine so far. Pre March 2006 are on the cheaper road tax also, which feels like a little victory
I have a 2005 650, dark blue with cream interior. I have had it for 18 months and run it from 48k to 78k miles. Issues; 1 x wheel bearing (£150) and one gearbox sump seal (£220). Everything works as it should and it is a sublime car for covering distances. If you get the dynamic drive option, it corners very flat. Sport is quite firm, but I like the way it rides.
Nice things to have
Adaptive drive: excellent
Exclusive leather - makes a big difference.
Head up display: once you get used to this, you would never go without
Logic 7 sounds: worthwhile.
Adaptive cruise control - I like it.
Adaptive headlamps -
Cup holder; do not have the optional one, but it looks great.
Not so important High Beam assist & voice control.
Cannot comment on the sun roof, as never tried one.
The only thing that I did not like was the steering wheel, which I had recovered and posted on here about it.
I think it feels special every time I drive it. It goes very well and is reasonably economical. My normal drive to work is 240 motorway miles @ 80 - 85 leptons and it is 29 - 32 MPG, most times. I have been very pleased with mine so far. Pre March 2006 are on the cheaper road tax also, which feels like a little victory
Edited by gf15 on Saturday 20th October 09:48
Not an owner, but did have a test run in a 650 before chickening out and buying an E92.
Adaptive drive (I think) automatically stiffens up the suspension and dampers according to your speed to give you improved road holding. Adaptive lights go around corners as you turn the wheel - a very nice option. Exclusive leather is worth having - it trims the whole dash and feels much more supple than the standard stuff. Adaptive cruise is the jobby that uses radar to keep you a safe distance from the car in front and brakes and accelerates for you to maintain it. Never used it so can't comment.
HUD is very cool and actually works incredibly well. Why more cars don't have it is beyond me as it's a great safety feature.
The one I drove felt *quick* and made a nice noise, but the fuel consumption scared me. Googling about revealed that they're generally pretty reliable.
Adaptive drive (I think) automatically stiffens up the suspension and dampers according to your speed to give you improved road holding. Adaptive lights go around corners as you turn the wheel - a very nice option. Exclusive leather is worth having - it trims the whole dash and feels much more supple than the standard stuff. Adaptive cruise is the jobby that uses radar to keep you a safe distance from the car in front and brakes and accelerates for you to maintain it. Never used it so can't comment.
HUD is very cool and actually works incredibly well. Why more cars don't have it is beyond me as it's a great safety feature.
The one I drove felt *quick* and made a nice noise, but the fuel consumption scared me. Googling about revealed that they're generally pretty reliable.
Hi MikeM3Power
What is:
Exclusive leather? GF: Standard leather is hard and feels like it came off a Rhino (in my view), exclusive is softer and much nicer.
Adaptive drive, GF: Stiffens up the anti-roll bars, so it corners flat when pressing on.
Adaptive cruise: GF: you can set the cruise and if someone pulls out in front of you it will apply the brakes and follow the car at a set distance, once the car in front moves out of the way, it accelerates back up to the preset speed. Very useful when going through long road works.
Active headlamps, GF: When in auto lights, the lights swivel when you turn, like the old Citroen DS. I think they only swivel by 15%, but I like it.
How is the performance? GF: I use it as a daily driver, but it never feels lacking, it reaches license losing speeds very very quickly. Auto box is good, if you leave it in sport mode you can feel the difference. Only down side is that for a car that is all aluminium (doors, roof, bonnet etc) or plastic (wings bumpers) it is heavy and takes a lot of stopping.
I've seen the HUD, its quite rare isn't it? GF: about half the cars I looked had it. Some important items are options (such as Sat Nav - with the bigger screen, and 6 CD player). I have a spreadsheet that I created when buying mine, which contains all the options and associated prices, which I found useful (Sorry, sad I know) Mail me through my profile if you want a copy.
Does look nice though.
GF: Mine is below: after it was detailed by Dave @ DDB, Good luck they are superb cars and I reckon you could drive a hard bargain on a 650 now. Some of the cars I saw are still still on sale 17 months later.
What is:
Exclusive leather? GF: Standard leather is hard and feels like it came off a Rhino (in my view), exclusive is softer and much nicer.
Adaptive drive, GF: Stiffens up the anti-roll bars, so it corners flat when pressing on.
Adaptive cruise: GF: you can set the cruise and if someone pulls out in front of you it will apply the brakes and follow the car at a set distance, once the car in front moves out of the way, it accelerates back up to the preset speed. Very useful when going through long road works.
Active headlamps, GF: When in auto lights, the lights swivel when you turn, like the old Citroen DS. I think they only swivel by 15%, but I like it.
How is the performance? GF: I use it as a daily driver, but it never feels lacking, it reaches license losing speeds very very quickly. Auto box is good, if you leave it in sport mode you can feel the difference. Only down side is that for a car that is all aluminium (doors, roof, bonnet etc) or plastic (wings bumpers) it is heavy and takes a lot of stopping.
I've seen the HUD, its quite rare isn't it? GF: about half the cars I looked had it. Some important items are options (such as Sat Nav - with the bigger screen, and 6 CD player). I have a spreadsheet that I created when buying mine, which contains all the options and associated prices, which I found useful (Sorry, sad I know) Mail me through my profile if you want a copy.
Does look nice though.
GF: Mine is below: after it was detailed by Dave @ DDB, Good luck they are superb cars and I reckon you could drive a hard bargain on a 650 now. Some of the cars I saw are still still on sale 17 months later.
That looks nice in the blue, haven't seen many in that colour.
I think you have to decide what you want from the car Mike. I went for the 650 over the M3, but then i don't do any track days and use it for a journey down the motorway (albeit pretty short) to work every day. It is a nice car which handles well, and seems to have loads of grip, but i guess it will feel pretty heavy compared to an M3. I still like to take it for a bit of a thrash, but i would definitely prefer a manual for this, however for everyday driving i'm loving the auto! It is quick too even with the auto, i used to have a standard Supra TT (manual) and it's definitely quicker than that.
A few pics of mine
I think you have to decide what you want from the car Mike. I went for the 650 over the M3, but then i don't do any track days and use it for a journey down the motorway (albeit pretty short) to work every day. It is a nice car which handles well, and seems to have loads of grip, but i guess it will feel pretty heavy compared to an M3. I still like to take it for a bit of a thrash, but i would definitely prefer a manual for this, however for everyday driving i'm loving the auto! It is quick too even with the auto, i used to have a standard Supra TT (manual) and it's definitely quicker than that.
A few pics of mine
Thanks guys
@Bennyboy: The adaptive cruise is basically BMs answer to Mercedes Distronic then. Thanks for your reply.
@GF: Thanks for all that information there, i'd love the spreadsheet on the options please. Its a great idea. I'll mail you via your profile.
How do you find the idrive/sat nav? I know its subject to a lot of hate.
Also very nice looking car.
@Skipraider: Agreed, im not into track days or anything like that. My commute is basically through London so a lot of stop start but i will probably be moving out of london soon and my family is also out of london so i do get to hit the motorways quite a bit.
I decided that in the 6 series, s4 or M3 it will be all auto. Bit fed up of a manual.
Also the coupes really look so much better then the convertibles!
@Bennyboy: The adaptive cruise is basically BMs answer to Mercedes Distronic then. Thanks for your reply.
@GF: Thanks for all that information there, i'd love the spreadsheet on the options please. Its a great idea. I'll mail you via your profile.
How do you find the idrive/sat nav? I know its subject to a lot of hate.
Also very nice looking car.
@Skipraider: Agreed, im not into track days or anything like that. My commute is basically through London so a lot of stop start but i will probably be moving out of london soon and my family is also out of london so i do get to hit the motorways quite a bit.
I decided that in the 6 series, s4 or M3 it will be all auto. Bit fed up of a manual.
Also the coupes really look so much better then the convertibles!
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