Monday 22nd October 2012

Nissan calms steer-by-wire fears

Don't panic about simulated steering feel say Nissan's engineers; PHers do anyway

---

News that Nissan would be launching steer-by-wire as early as next year on some Infiniti models got PHers talking here. Sensible questions were raised along the lines of 'what the hell's going to happen to steering feel now?' and 'isn't relying on electric connections to steer your car a tad risky?'

Just to recap, the system faithfully reproduces steering inputs from the driver, but filters out the worst pothole kickbacks. However surface feedback is interpreted and sent back through the wheel.

The future of steering feel - in Nissan's hands

Perhaps they were reading, who knows, but Nissan has come back with some written answers from their Japanese engineers about how this will all work. And they're pretty feisty about it too.

"Yeah, everyone starts with the same preconceived ideas," says Takeski Kimura of Nissan's driving control development team. "They imagine our next generation steering will feel like a video game."

But he says in blind-tests between conventional steering systems and the new one, most people get them mixed up. "Invariably they get it wrong and say that the next generation steering offers a more direct and realistic feel of the road.

"We look forward to seeing how the world's auto writers go about describing this." And we look forward to trying it (ahem).

So, what about if it all goes wrong? "People wonder what happens if you lose electric power, so we show them." Kimura says. A clutch mechanically kicks in the instant the power cuts out. There are also back-up ECUs. "There is absolutely no way to lose steering control," he says. And then he makes the point about modern planes.

The benefits we're told is that you don't get that steering judder on rutted roads and you need fewer steering adjustments. It's also programmable for different roads or driving styles, so "Sport" would give a more instant response, while "Standard" would be "tuned for more everyday driving".

Nissan reckons steering responses are faster, and that feedback is sent back equally quickly. "Our goal is to link steering so directly to the human senses that it fees like an extension of your body," says Kimura.

A noble goal and we're looking forward to having a go, after the world's top auto writers of course.

Shame it all this was revealed QUITE so close to a Nissan announcement that they were recalling 51,000 vehicles, mostly Qashqais, after a steering wheel came loose in a Finnish driver's hands. But then life has its potholes too.

A video explanation of how it all works can be seen here.

 

[RemarkLima]

Pistonheads said:

But he says in blind-tests between conventional steering systems and the new one, most people

...Crash into parked cars?

[The Wookie]

Nissan said:

But he says in blind-tests between conventional steering systems and the new one, most people get them mixed up.

A cynical individual might say that says more about their current generation setup than their new system!

[Birdster]

I look forward to seeing how this pans out. I'd like to have a drive and see for myself.

[AntJD]

Dont like the idea of this. From the video and discription its going to filter out a lot. Even if "feedback" is simulated its going to cut out shudder and bumps. How will we know if the road surface is poor? Do we just put all our faith into the electronics and give up trying to learn how to drive?

[Pesty]

Having worked for TRW who made EPAS for nissan they can fk right off if they think this is a good idea.

I want a mechanical link.

[Dion20vt]

In a lot of ways, it will be like driving on the Playstation with a steering wheel with the simulated feedback....

But with no reset when you crash!

[fatboy b]

Pesty said:

Having worked for TRW who made EPAS for nissan they can fk right off if they think this is a good idea.

I want a mechanical link.

Airliners have been doing it for years. Can't see the problem. Let's face it, only a small percentage of people really care about steering feedback, and it's been getting less and less any how over the years with the advances in power steering.

[Martin 480 Turbo]

This is another example of "We should not do everything we can, because we can."

It only shows, that NISSAN got their priorities terribly wrong.

Make the car lighter and build a good stiff chassis to begin with.
Filtering out the judder, that those francojapanese McPherson thingies
create, via the means of a wire is just plain wrong.

Ever seen this ?:



http://www.core77.com/blog/transportation/auto_des...

Martin 480 Turbo

[IanMorewood]

Didnt Mercedes already do this with the 2nd Gen SLK's?

[The Wookie]

Pesty said:

fatboy b said:

Airliners have been doing it for years. Can't see the problem. Let's face it, only a small percentage of people really care about steering feedback, and it's been getting less and less any how over the years with the advances in power steering.

Air liners have built in redundancy and their stuff isn't made by a load of old bags with no idea.

Bearing in mind that I was terrified of flying, based on the fact that planes are engineered by people like me and the people I work with, until I learned that aerospace engineering is far more detailed and traceable.

Thus leaving us with a system that is designed by people like me and the people I work with

[richb77]

At 35 I consider myself getting old and cynical when its comes to articles like this.

All I read/see into this is that a manufacturer is re-inventing the wheel (Steering) for the sake of sales material.

It may offer realistic feel e.t.c. when its brand new.

What happens when its done 100k miles?

What happens when corrosion takes hold of a connector?

What happens when it fails? Which will be instantly not gradually like conventional steering.

Its perfect if you lease a brand new car every three years.

If you (like me) do not buy new then its just a gimmick that when it fails will probably be a financial (if not physical) write off. Just like hybrids and their batteries.

Note to all Nissan/Infinity salesman (or Salespeople if I have offended anyone). Good luck trying to convince most knowledgeable people that depreciation is low!

[Pesty]

The Wookie said:

Bearing in mind that I was terrified of flying, based on the fact that planes are engineered by people like me and the people I work with, until I learned that aerospace engineering is far more detailed and traceable.

Thus leaving us with a system that is designed by people like me and the people I work with

OT did you by any chance used to live in Telford?

[will261058]

I dont have a problem with this and look forward to trying it to see how well they replicate the feel. All those who slag it off before trying it and saying they "want a mechanical link" should realise that everytime they got on an Airbus for the last 20 odd years they have trusted their lives to similar systems linked to the flying controls, and some military applications have been going even longer!

[danjama]

Fly by wire and steer by wire are two very different things. Incomparable in my eyes.

[Pesty]

We know all that.


At the very least its a solution to a question nobody asked. I also fear it will be extremely expensive in a few years when it goes wrong maybe prohibitively so.

It needs extra processors and clutches, fail-safes and all kinds of extra complications for what? you don't feel so may bumps on the road which must also mean you lose steering feel for the surface you are on.

I'd love to be proved different but until I do or some journalist get hold of it then i'm not going to beleive the marketing guys.

[julianc]

Even more complex electrical systems to go wrong and for drivers to pay through the nose for getting repaired.

No thanks.

[900T-R]

will261058 said:

All those who slag it off before trying it and saying they "want a mechanical link" should realise that everytime they got on an Airbus for the last 20 odd years they have trusted their lives to similar systems linked to the flying controls, and some military applications have been going even longer!

Thing is most dealer workshops tend to make a meal over rather simpler things... which is not that surprising given that we still want vehicle technicians to work for low wages while 'management' awards themselves rather bigger perks, and still charge £90+ an hour for the privilege as that shiny nice showroom with the war painted blonde in it has to come from somewhere, and it's not new car sales...

Joking aside, the technical complexity of current and forthcoming vehicles has long become a problem for the aftersales and aftermarket business as you need folks with the capability to think of the car as a system and not just replace parts because their diagnostic tester said there's a fault with the system associated. In short, you'd need the type of people that are now signing off aircraft after maintenance...

[joe_90]

Breaks down outside warranty, £2000 + engine out job I would suspect..

[900T-R]

joe_90 said:

Breaks down outside warranty, £2000 + engine out job I would suspect..

Or in case of an out-of-warranty Infinity, an economic write-off

[callmedave]

Im not in favour of this, nor am i against it.

But i thought, How many people have been injured via the steering column/wheel being pushed into the cabin in the event of a crash?

This would surely stop that happening??


Callmedave