Should i get an inspection - 964 purchase
Discussion
I've just agreed a price on a 1990 964 tip which is being sold privately. The car is in good condition and the file is extensive with all the stamps, MOT's and a big file of receipts including a rebuild at 80k by JZM (£6k), it's now done 110k. Although it all stacks up, especially compared to some of the other cars i've seen, i did think an inspection would be wise. I did read that the 1990 could still leak after a top end rebuild? The 1991 onwards had a different head/gasket? The car is in North London if anyone wants to recommend somewhere for an inspection....if it's needed?
Hi, get the car inspected as there are other things thay may require attention other than the engine.
As for the later models having different headgaskets...... there are loads of place the engine can leak from and 9/10 times the heads only leak as the retaining studs have snapped. All other seals and gaskets are the same and do leak.
Get a Porsche specialist to carry out a full check over and also I would recommend a cylinder leakage test to see what the condition of the cylinders , rings and valves are in.
Should be around £450 for the check and leakage test.
Mike
As for the later models having different headgaskets...... there are loads of place the engine can leak from and 9/10 times the heads only leak as the retaining studs have snapped. All other seals and gaskets are the same and do leak.
Get a Porsche specialist to carry out a full check over and also I would recommend a cylinder leakage test to see what the condition of the cylinders , rings and valves are in.
Should be around £450 for the check and leakage test.
Mike
Definitely!
Loads of items that can cost money on these. Anything from heat exchangers, tired suspension to bodywork, can all cost a bit of cash to sort.
I used Jaz in Wembley for a ppi once but I don't know how far away these are from your prospective purchase. Straight to the point. Rang me with results straight away, then posted out receipts etc.
I have a leakdown test done first on 964s to check engine health, usually about £100.
This is the cheaper part of the inspection. If the engine checks out ok, I then go ahead with the rest of the inspection.
Good luck getting sorted.
Eta - Hey SM, Snap! Helpful place Jaz.
Loads of items that can cost money on these. Anything from heat exchangers, tired suspension to bodywork, can all cost a bit of cash to sort.
I used Jaz in Wembley for a ppi once but I don't know how far away these are from your prospective purchase. Straight to the point. Rang me with results straight away, then posted out receipts etc.
I have a leakdown test done first on 964s to check engine health, usually about £100.
This is the cheaper part of the inspection. If the engine checks out ok, I then go ahead with the rest of the inspection.
Good luck getting sorted.
Eta - Hey SM, Snap! Helpful place Jaz.
tallpaulw said:
I've just agreed a price on a 1990 964 tip which is being sold privately. The car is in good condition and the file is extensive with all the stamps, MOT's and a big file of receipts including a rebuild at 80k by JZM (£6k), it's now done 110k. Although it all stacks up, especially compared to some of the other cars i've seen, i did think an inspection would be wise. I did read that the 1990 could still leak after a top end rebuild? The 1991 onwards had a different head/gasket? The car is in North London if anyone wants to recommend somewhere for an inspection....if it's needed?
Baltic Blue per chance? Had my eye on that but decided this time manual g/box all the way. Looked good colour combo and bodywork. One thing I have noticed is that age is creeping up on these cars and rust bubbling is becoming common in various places over the bodywork. Had a look over one recently and to tackle the various rust areas would mean a full respray which is not what I want to undertake and would rather buy one fulled sorted. The search goes on............
Defintely recommend getting an inspection. I used Peter Morgan for my wife's 964, nothing major found but it did indicate some faults which I knew I would have to replace in the coming years. Must admit that it was the most comprehensive report I have ever received on a car, these guys know their Porsche's.
The way I look at it is, £300+ is much better spent getting a proper inspection and knowing what you are getting and condsiderably cheaper than one which will need lots of work
George
The way I look at it is, £300+ is much better spent getting a proper inspection and knowing what you are getting and condsiderably cheaper than one which will need lots of work
George
I've never had an inspection done. Either I've purchased from one of the very few specialists I've delt with before and trust. (Thats no one from either North Yorkshire, North London or Essex then) Or I have made my own mind up after years of buying Porsches.
The latest 993 I bought in March has had a small fortune on it since I bought her, and still needs a couple of K spent plus servicing next year. I put this expenditure against almost zero depreciation to warrant the expense.
I'm a believer in buying an honest car, that has had little extra work done over the last few years at a price that reflexs this. Mileage for example is unimportant, servicing yearly (with proof and service book) is. This way I know that everything I do to her is correct and done properly. I'd sooner buy an 18K car and spend 5K on her, than go out there and spend 23K and have no idea if the dampers are going to last a year or a week for example.
This is good knowledge for the purchase of your Porsche. I fully understand having an inspection, especially if you wish little expenditure for the next year or so. However (and the 964 is getting to the age where they are certainly included) an inspection will mainly inform you of faults that an old car will have. I have seen for example a Peter Morgan report on a 3.2 Carrera, it was very detailed, but to be honest nothing was in it that I couldn't have checked over myself. There were quite a few, what I would call minor niggles. eg slight oil weep from engine etc, nothing to worry about. But when oil leak and Porsche are used in the same sentence ...... half the would be purchasers run for the hills.
This in itself might put you off a car, only to find later and God knows how many reports done, that it was the best of the bunch. Porsche = expenditure, however well thay are looked after.
The biggest single thing I would look for is body damage and rot. And there are lots of 964s with both. This to me is the important stuff that normally needs remedial work sooner rather than later, and can lead to costing more than a complete engine build if your not careful.
If it was from the water cooled era however, with modern electronics .... well that might be a different matter, and an inspection maybe required.
The latest 993 I bought in March has had a small fortune on it since I bought her, and still needs a couple of K spent plus servicing next year. I put this expenditure against almost zero depreciation to warrant the expense.
I'm a believer in buying an honest car, that has had little extra work done over the last few years at a price that reflexs this. Mileage for example is unimportant, servicing yearly (with proof and service book) is. This way I know that everything I do to her is correct and done properly. I'd sooner buy an 18K car and spend 5K on her, than go out there and spend 23K and have no idea if the dampers are going to last a year or a week for example.
This is good knowledge for the purchase of your Porsche. I fully understand having an inspection, especially if you wish little expenditure for the next year or so. However (and the 964 is getting to the age where they are certainly included) an inspection will mainly inform you of faults that an old car will have. I have seen for example a Peter Morgan report on a 3.2 Carrera, it was very detailed, but to be honest nothing was in it that I couldn't have checked over myself. There were quite a few, what I would call minor niggles. eg slight oil weep from engine etc, nothing to worry about. But when oil leak and Porsche are used in the same sentence ...... half the would be purchasers run for the hills.
This in itself might put you off a car, only to find later and God knows how many reports done, that it was the best of the bunch. Porsche = expenditure, however well thay are looked after.
The biggest single thing I would look for is body damage and rot. And there are lots of 964s with both. This to me is the important stuff that normally needs remedial work sooner rather than later, and can lead to costing more than a complete engine build if your not careful.
If it was from the water cooled era however, with modern electronics .... well that might be a different matter, and an inspection maybe required.
Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 6th November 08:41
tallpaulw said:
I've just agreed a price on a 1990 964 tip which is being sold privately. The car is in good condition and the file is extensive with all the stamps, MOT's and a big file of receipts including a rebuild at 80k by JZM (£6k), it's now done 110k. Although it all stacks up, especially compared to some of the other cars i've seen, i did think an inspection would be wise. I did read that the 1990 could still leak after a top end rebuild? The 1991 onwards had a different head/gasket? The car is in North London if anyone wants to recommend somewhere for an inspection....if it's needed?
If the engine has had a rebuild it would be very unusual that the top end would not have been addressed with the later gaskets - especially from a specialist like JZM.There are so many areas that need to be thoroughly checked. The best money you'll spend is on the piece of mind of a PPI with a leak-down/ compression test. I and a lot of 964 owners vouch for GTOne in Chertsey. JAZ have a concrete reputation although I have no first hand experience with them I would take it there if I didn't know of GTOne.
Can you post pictures of the car/ advert?
Also you may be interested in this thread (UK 964s for sale), which is constantly updated with cars and discussed:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/964-forum/67...
As a side note. Join Rennlist - there is a big 964 presence. The London 964 Owners meet once a month for an informal lunch and drive. Newbies are a must:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/964-forum/70...
Edited by Porsche964fp on Tuesday 6th November 09:43
Again, thanks for all your thoughts and info on this. The car in question is the baltic blue tip on at £13500. It's in good condition and the paper file couldn't be better. The car had an inspection today at Jaz and does have an small oil leak in the usual 964 place, not ideal as it had a rebuild at JZM 30k ago, so shouldn't be leaking? Not spoken to Steve yet for the full story, but should have an update tomorrow.
Hi,
depending on how bad the leak is it may not be a deal-breaker if everything else is fine, eg compression/leakdowns. It just depends on what you're happy living with.
Drips of oil on the drive or wherever you've been parked do sometimes take the shine off things if you're a fanny (I am!), but in general, that's 964s.
As for the rebuild 30k ago, you need to look at how long ago time-wise too. If it's more than 6 or 7 years then unfotunately, leaks can appear/reappear in that time.
Is the leak from a cylinder base gasket? Simplified, these are a round ring that sits in a recess and forms a seal. Regardless of miles they shrink and distort over time and allow oil past. Just a one of the 964 foibles along with the crankcase through-bolts.
It's labour intensive to sort and will be a case of "while you're in there", hence basically another rebuild but if the car is a summer car, for light use and it'll last 2 or 3 years before a rebuild, then it doesn't seem too bad, especially if you could get it for £12.5-£13k. 964s don't get much cheaper, even in a much worse state.
Good luck.
depending on how bad the leak is it may not be a deal-breaker if everything else is fine, eg compression/leakdowns. It just depends on what you're happy living with.
Drips of oil on the drive or wherever you've been parked do sometimes take the shine off things if you're a fanny (I am!), but in general, that's 964s.
As for the rebuild 30k ago, you need to look at how long ago time-wise too. If it's more than 6 or 7 years then unfotunately, leaks can appear/reappear in that time.
Is the leak from a cylinder base gasket? Simplified, these are a round ring that sits in a recess and forms a seal. Regardless of miles they shrink and distort over time and allow oil past. Just a one of the 964 foibles along with the crankcase through-bolts.
It's labour intensive to sort and will be a case of "while you're in there", hence basically another rebuild but if the car is a summer car, for light use and it'll last 2 or 3 years before a rebuild, then it doesn't seem too bad, especially if you could get it for £12.5-£13k. 964s don't get much cheaper, even in a much worse state.
Good luck.
Edited by marky911 on Thursday 8th November 17:28
The rebuild was about 6 years ago i think, so that's probably why it's leaking. I think the leak would bother me (maybe i shouldn't be looking at 964's!), but will wait for the full inspection e-mailing through and a chat with Steve from Jaz tomorrow morning, before making a decision.
Wozy68 said:
I've never had an inspection done. Either I've purchased from one of the very few specialists I've delt with before and trust. (Thats no one from either North Yorkshire, North London or Essex then) Or I have made my own mind up after years of buying Porsches.
That's in interesting view. I still feel the pain from the one and only time I did it!To the OP, don't be instantly put off by an oil leak. They are not the end of the world. If essentially it's a good car (and they are hard to come by), give it serious thought.
Bert
BertBert said:
That's in interesting view. I still feel the pain from the one and only time I did it!
To the OP, don't be instantly put off by an oil leak. They are not the end of the world. If essentially it's a good car (and they are hard to come by), give it serious thought.
Bert
Bert me old chum. I'm not against having an inspection done, if someone wishes too.To the OP, don't be instantly put off by an oil leak. They are not the end of the world. If essentially it's a good car (and they are hard to come by), give it serious thought.
Bert
But so many people instantly state you should have an inspection done now adays. What did we all do twenty years ago? When unless it was some rare vintage car, we just used common sense (or lack of it) and bought or did not buy a car.
You pay your money, you take your chances. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVaYjmAUZig Fast forward to 2minutes.
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