Thursday 8th November 2012

PH Blog: diesel do nicely

Wake up and smell the ... derv? Dan defends opting for the black pump

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Now, clearly if you're a red-blooded PHer you don't get out of bed for anything less a five-litre engine and/or 500hp. All the same, the reaction to the Blood Brothers piece comparing the TDI Scirocco and TT was a little shocking! Nobody was actually forced to read it at gunpoint, at least as far as I'm aware, but that didn't stop a few carrying on as if they had.

It'll have you in the twisties, etc...

The case for the defence follows! I've spent a bit of time in the 170hp Scirocco like the one we featured and actually survived the experience with my humour and lust for life intact. OK, so it fuels from the black pump. But once you're over that prejudice it's actually quite a weapon, with a pleasing sense that it's got just a little bit too much torque for the chassis to stand so making neat, tidy and rapid progress demands more interaction than the point and squirt stereotype some may assume.

The one I drove was a DSG and it demolished the roundabouts of Milton Keynes in an enjoyable sequence of understeer-quelling left-foot braking, rapid-fire shifts and suitably muscular mid-range that carried over to the real world of B-roads and corners too. He said, belatedly realising that selling the diesel dream was going to require something more emotive than recalling a drive around Milton Keynes in a VW TDI...

I'm not done yet though!

Renaultsport Megane diesel proves the point

I'll shortly be in need a 'proper' car with a back seat and everything. Musing on it had me recalling some fun on-track experiences in a Renaultsport Megane. The dCi 175, no less. The Renault guys had brought the entire range to one of their track days and while everyone fought over the R26, 197 Cup and Twingo there in the corner sat a silver diesel Megane, unloved, undriven and standing idle. So I took it out for a spin. Cadwell, if I recall correctly. And what an absolute weapon it was. There's some manner of geekery I forget the precise details of but it involves something about the rear subframe settings being the same as the R26 to offset the additional weight of the engine - the kind of attention to detail you can't help but admire - and on track the thing was incredible.

The almost complete lack of noise was surreal, constantly hitting the rev limiter the only real issue, but with the torque to deal with Cadwell's inclines, the chassis to carry the speed around its corners and the same burly brakes as the other Renaultsport Meganes the diesel was soon passing any number of 888-shod Clios in almost spooky serenity.

PH editor endorses diesel hatch shocker

So I want one. Silver, five-door with a Cup chassis please. I'll be lucky, given how rare they are. Indeed, according to Renault's sales stats I'll be hunting down one of five cars sold with this combination. I've got slightly better odds if I go for a black one - there were 13 of them! But I've always enjoyed a Q-car and they don't get much more stealthy than that. The only five-door dCi 175 currently in the classifieds is a more lairy blue but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled.

Now, time to start work on that PH Heroes piece on the Prius...

Dan

 

[toppstuff]

Oh for gods sake.

First we have an article suggesting that two diesel VAG Golf derivatives ( Scirocco and TT) are "two of the best exponents of the sportscar breed" and now we have an article bigging up DERV.

I love diesels. There are two on my driveway. But only because they are expedient.

Stop the madness now for the sake of all that is good. Please.

[mat205125]

That blue DCi 175 looks like a bargain at that money

[VladD]

Dan, I hadn't read the Blood Brothers piece, but I don't see why you're shocked by the reaction to it. There are plenty of car sites out there, but this is an enthusiasts site. People like me come here to read about exotics and budget heros, primarily to take a break form the mundaness of the working day. Talking about diesels, no matter how good, just doesn't really fit the bill for me.

I'm sure plenty of others will disagree though.

[griffdude]

Good article. Another derv convert here- as with petrol cars chassis is important. I bought an Alpina D3 Touring 18 months ago & really like it, ok it's pretty modest in output terms but the handling & ride are fantastic plus it makes my other car more special when not used day to day.

The Griffith comes out when I really feel like a blast.

[scotty02uk]

diesels of today are really quite good, i dont regret buying my 320d, and find it quite fun to drive after 1st gear, and my old car was a 330ci!

[AlpinaB5s]

VladD said:

Dan, I hadn't read the Blood Brothers piece, but I don't see why you're shocked by the reaction to it. There are plenty of car sites out there, but this is an enthusiasts site. People like me come here to read about exotics and budget heros, primarily to take a break form the mundaness of the working day. Talking about diesels, no matter how good, just doesn't really fit the bill for me.

I'm sure plenty of others will disagree though.

Indeed

So PH should just peddle petrol powered carporn? The kind that 99.9% of its readers can't afford? with a bit of bargain barging thrown in for good measure (also powered by petrol of course)?

Is a car such as a D5 with "345bhp, a whopping 516lb ft of torque and can hit 62mph in 5.1sec before bludgeoning its way to a top speed of 171mph" not sporty and exotic enough for you just because its powered by the devils own semen?

Take the blinkers off, enter the real world and realise that PH isnt just for your personal gratification.

[toppstuff]

VladD said:

Dan, I hadn't read the Blood Brothers piece, but I don't see why you're shocked by the reaction to it. There are plenty of car sites out there, but this is an enthusiasts site. People like me come here to read about exotics and budget heros, primarily to take a break form the mundaness of the working day. Talking about diesels, no matter how good, just doesn't really fit the bill for me.

I'm sure plenty of others will disagree though.

I quite agree. The problem with the "Blood Brothers" piece is that it is poorly written. Suggesting that these two admittedly fine cars are sportscars at the start of the article is such clear, unambiguous cobblers that it can never recover from that. Hence the ridicule.

If, instead, PH editorial staff were saying " In the real world it is inevitable that some of us have to consider the diesel option, but here are two examples of diesels that are also a decent steer", then that would be fine.

But to call them "leading exponents of the sportscar breed" is just nonsense. And the article is rightly ridiculed for it.

If PH stands by these comments, then I look forward to seeing a diesel TT in the next group test with a Porsche Boxster. This of course won't happen. Which kind of demonstrates my point.

[toppstuff]

AlpinaB5s said:

Indeed

So PH should just peddle petrol powered carporn? The kind that 99.9% of its readers can't afford? with a bit of bargain barging thrown in for good measure (also powered by petrol of course)?

Is a car such as a D5 with "345bhp, a whopping 516lb ft of torque and can hit 62mph in 5.1sec before bludgeoning its way to a top speed of 171mph" not sporty and exotic enough for you just because its powered by the devils own semen?

Take the blinkers off, enter the real world and realise that PH isnt just for your personal gratification.

All true. But PH is calling them sportscars. They are not.

[Triumph Man]

I'm surprised he managed to left foot brake a VW. Every time I try it, the ECU cuts the power. It wasn't a problem on my old throttle cabled Passat, but on this one because it has a DBW throttle, it cuts the bloody power! I'm the driver you interfering sack of piss!

[Great Pretender]

And another Derv convert here

That I happen to think the the 1.9TDI is the best engine to have in any MKIV Golf derived VAG product, is both tantamount to the brilliance of the engine and a damning indictment of the cars it was churning out at the turn of the century.

Have had two diesel MK4 Golfs now. They're great cars.

However I do also have a petrol toy for the weekends. There's no way in hell I could cope with the Golf as my only car.

[The Ka Guy]

Agreed on the Megane, bit of a Q car thats often not on people's list of quick and (now) cheap diesels!

[VladD]

AlpinaB5s said:

VladD said:

Dan, I hadn't read the Blood Brothers piece, but I don't see why you're shocked by the reaction to it. There are plenty of car sites out there, but this is an enthusiasts site. People like me come here to read about exotics and budget heros, primarily to take a break form the mundaness of the working day. Talking about diesels, no matter how good, just doesn't really fit the bill for me.

I'm sure plenty of others will disagree though.

Indeed

So PH should just peddle petrol powered carporn? The kind that 99.9% of its readers can't afford? with a bit of bargain barging thrown in for good measure (also powered by petrol of course)?

Is a car such as a D5 with "345bhp, a whopping 516lb ft of torque and can hit 62mph in 5.1sec before bludgeoning its way to a top speed of 171mph" not sporty and exotic enough for you just because its powered by the devils own semen?

Take the blinkers off, enter the real world and realise that PH isnt just for your personal gratification.

1) I said exotics and budget heros. People can afford budget heros.

2) No, a D5 isn't exotic enough for me, because it's a diesel. It's like finding a beautiful woman, finding she can cook and is great in bed, an then discovering she used to be a man. Despite the attractions, you just don't go there.

3) I never said that PH was for my personal gratification and even stated that others would disagree with my personal view. I was just pointing out why the Blood Brothers article got the flak that it did. I also expressed an opinion that plenty of car sites will talk about TT diesels, whereas PH used to focus more on the nicer stuff.

[nicanary]

Triumph Man said:

I'm surprised he managed to left foot brake a VW. Every time I try it, the ECU cuts the power. It wasn't a problem on my old throttle cabled Passat, but on this one because it has a DBW throttle, it cuts the bloody power! I'm the driver you interfering sack of piss!

Agreed. VAG have started to take "nanny power" too far. They think we're all retards - try to do anything "outside the box" and the ECU thinks you've made a mistake. Too many numpty drivers I suppose, and they have to cater for them.

[Dan Trent]

Triumph Man said:

I'm surprised he managed to left foot brake a VW. Every time I try it, the ECU cuts the power. It wasn't a problem on my old throttle cabled Passat, but on this one because it has a DBW throttle, it cuts the bloody power! I'm the driver you interfering sack of piss!

There was definitely a phase of VWs where this happened but it seems to have been sorted out on more recent ones. I used to left-foot brake my DSG-equipped Caddy long-termer (pre-PH days!) and Riggers' Golf GTI Ed35 with no problems.

It does feel like you've run into a brick wall when it does happen though, I do recall that.

[Dave Hedgehog]

stop wasting your time, aint gonna happen, you can keep satan's tar

[dublet]

Who cares what it's powered by? It should be quick and fun to drive. Many Diesel cars have become both of those and can beat their petrol equivalent models. It's called technological progression. Some people like to venture outside their caves.

Good on PH for shining a light on this.

[Triumph Man]

Dan Trent said:

Triumph Man said:

I'm surprised he managed to left foot brake a VW. Every time I try it, the ECU cuts the power. It wasn't a problem on my old throttle cabled Passat, but on this one because it has a DBW throttle, it cuts the bloody power! I'm the driver you interfering sack of piss!

There was definitely a phase of VWs where this happened but it seems to have been sorted out on more recent ones. I used to left-foot brake my DSG-equipped Caddy long-termer (pre-PH days!) and Riggers' Golf GTI Ed35 with no problems.

It does feel like you've run into a brick wall when it does happen though, I do recall that.

I thought it was more a safety nannying thing than a software glitch. The really irritating thing with mine is that the power remains cut after you lift off the brake for a second or two.

[BeirutTaxi]

AlpinaB5s said:

Indeed

So PH should just peddle petrol powered carporn? The kind that 99.9% of its readers can't afford? with a bit of bargain barging thrown in for good measure (also powered by petrol of course)?

Diesels are more expensive to buy than their petrol equivalents.

AlpinaB5s said:

Is a car such as a D5 with "345bhp, a whopping 516lb ft of torque and can hit 62mph in 5.1sec before bludgeoning its way to a top speed of 171mph" not sporty and exotic enough for you just because its powered by the devils own semen?

So it's a car with a powerful engine.. that's not particularly impressive in itself. Power does not equal a sports car.

Btw the torque figure is meaningless as you didn't quote the revs with it.

Edited by BeirutTaxi on Thursday 8th November 13:24

[toppstuff]

dublet said:

Who cares what it's powered by? It should be quick and fun to drive. Many Diesel cars have become both of those and can beat their petrol equivalent models. It's called technological progression. Some people like to venture outside their caves.

You would'nt think that when the third successive TDi has needed a DPF replacement yet again. Technological progression my arse.

[Dan Trent]

Triumph Man said:

I thought it was more a safety nannying thing than a software glitch. The really irritating thing with mine is that the power remains cut after you lift off the brake for a second or two.

Yes, I remember this happening too. Exactly which I forget now ... possibly Mk5 Golfs? It does give you a properly heart in mouth moment especially if you've smoothly braked (left-footed, obviously!) to filter into a roundabout or slip road and it pulls the rug out from under you for what feels like an eternity.