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Sunnysidebb

Original Poster:

1,341 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
For all the 996tt owners who have or had a 996 GT2.

Please no armchair racer reply.

If I was to move from a very high power 6tt to a similar modded GT2 ( circa 650 bhp) just how much difference is there in the dry. I dont mean finite handling but basic safety skill levels required to drive it. Is is so unforgiving without the PSM. I never really had the PSM working on my 9E 6tt.....only because I didn't drive it hard when conditions dictated caution.
does the same philosophy work with the GT2 or is it a total schizophrenic bh.

Whats your thoughts??
Thanks!

unclepezza

584 posts

29 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
calling.......

crimp a length

He will be along I'm sure to answer this, he has just gone the other way, GT2 - 6-TT don't think his old GT2 was at 650bhp though.


911Viking

223 posts

30 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Sunnysidebb said:
For all the 996tt owners who have or had a 996 GT2.

Please no armchair racer reply.

If I was to move from a very high power 6tt to a similar modded GT2 ( circa 650 bhp) just how much difference is there in the dry. I dont mean finite handling but basic safety skill levels required to drive it. Is is so unforgiving without the PSM. I never really had the PSM working on my 9E 6tt.....only because I didn't drive it hard when conditions dictated caution.
does the same philosophy work with the GT2 or is it a total schizophrenic bh.

Whats your thoughts??
Thanks!
You are used to real power Frank and whether thats in a 6T or GT2, it doesn't IMO make much difference. You are right, the key is knowing your own limits and judging conditions and surroundings. When using the 6T 9e power and pushing the car, you will have to switch the PSM off anyway to get any decent performance out of the car. I would think a GT2 with K1639's and big IC's would be an awesome track weapon. Perfect combination of lower weight, better brakes, more down force, better geo and lots and lots of instant power. Off the track, you drive it like any other road car and just follow traffic. You can do that bit with 50 and with 650 HP.

I ran a buddy's 6GT2 Mk2 a few months ago, it was a little pussy vs my former 9e25 car, in fact it felt slow above 60 mph. At that time I thought, stick some 9e power onto it and this would be seriously fun.

Nice project, look forward to hear how you get along.



Crimp a Length!

5,697 posts

109 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
How do Frank

When it comes to power 911Viking will know a thing or two having just watched his animal on youtube!!

If you read my thread on here "Gone but not forgotten" it gives an honest Yorkshire opinion mate!!
They are very different cars.
The Turbo suits me as average joe type driver who wants to enjoy a car rather than st myself in a car.
The GT2 is a driver focused specialist piece of machinery which lends itself to the die hard experienced driver.
Don't get me wrong i loved the GT2 the looks can seduce just parked in the garage.

I knew i'd made the right decision though yesterday when i had my 2 little lads sat in the back of the 6T with the biggest smiles ever, couldn't do that in the GT2.

Sunnysidebb

Original Poster:

1,341 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
911Viking said:
You are used to real power Frank and whether that's in a 6T or GT2, it doesn't IMO make much difference. You are right, the key is knowing your own limits and judging conditions and surroundings. When using the 6T 9e power and pushing the car, you will have to switch the PSM off anyway to get any decent performance out of the car. I would think a GT2 with K1639's and big IC's would be an awesome track weapon. Perfect combination of lower weight, better brakes, more down force, better geo and lots and lots of instant power. Off the track, you drive it like any other road car and just follow traffic. You can do that bit with 50 and with 650 HP.

I ran a buddy's 6GT2 Mk2 a few months ago, it was a little pussy vs my former 9e25 car, in fact it felt slow above 60 mph. At that time I thought, stick some 9e power onto it and this would be seriously fun.

Nice project, look forward to hear how you get along.
Thanks,
Ive got to weight up how much cash to throw at the Cosworth. its a mint and I mean absolute mint car. You wouldn't think it was more than 5 years old. So I'm no longer keen on mucking it about too much. So that could and I only mean could mean I could either get a manual 6tt circa 21k and mod the life out of it or get a GT2 for circa £35/40k and just 9E it ( still a little over budget though).
I still like the less tech orientated GT2 but I could do so much more to a 6tt with the extra cash and I never have had any real issues with the 6tt just decided it was time for a manual big hp car be it Cosworth or Porsche.
Ive already got enquiries for the cosworth for wedding hire so I might use it to pursue the 3rd arm of our enterprises " Sunnyside Wedding Hire".

beer
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Crimp a Length!

5,697 posts

109 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Sunnysidebb said:
911Viking said:
You are used to real power Frank and whether that's in a 6T or GT2, it doesn't IMO make much difference. You are right, the key is knowing your own limits and judging conditions and surroundings. When using the 6T 9e power and pushing the car, you will have to switch the PSM off anyway to get any decent performance out of the car. I would think a GT2 with K1639's and big IC's would be an awesome track weapon. Perfect combination of lower weight, better brakes, more down force, better geo and lots and lots of instant power. Off the track, you drive it like any other road car and just follow traffic. You can do that bit with 50 and with 650 HP.

I ran a buddy's 6GT2 Mk2 a few months ago, it was a little pussy vs my former 9e25 car, in fact it felt slow above 60 mph. At that time I thought, stick some 9e power onto it and this would be seriously fun.

Nice project, look forward to hear how you get along.
Thanks,
Ive got to weight up how much cash to throw at the Cosworth. its a mint and I mean absolute mint car. You wouldn't think it was more than 5 years old. So I'm no longer keen on mucking it about too much. So that could and I only mean could mean I could either get a manual 6tt circa 21k and mod the life out of it or get a GT2 for circa £35/40k and just 9E it ( still a little over budget though).
I still like the less tech orientated GT2 but I could do so much more to a 6tt with the extra cash and I never have had any real issues with the 6tt just decided it was time for a manual big hp car be it Cosworth or Porsche.
Ive already got enquiries for the cosworth for wedding hire so I might use it to pursue the 3rd arm of our enterprises " Sunnyside Wedding Hire".

beer
My old GT2 is at 911v be a shame to mod that car though IMO

Sunnysidebb

Original Poster:

1,341 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th November 2012 quote quote all
Crimp a Length! said:
How do Frank

When it comes to power 911Viking will know a thing or two having just watched his animal on youtube!!

If you read my thread on here "Gone but not forgotten" it gives an honest Yorkshire opinion mate!!
They are very different cars.
The Turbo suits me as average joe type driver who wants to enjoy a car rather than st myself in a car.
The GT2 is a driver focused specialist piece of machinery which lends itself to the die hard experienced driver.
Don't get me wrong i loved the GT2 the looks can seduce just parked in the garage.

I knew i'd made the right decision though yesterday when i had my 2 little lads sat in the back of the 6T with the biggest smiles ever, couldn't do that in the GT2.
Thanks for the candid answer.
I could buy a low priced 6tt at 21k and tbh its in the price bracket where I dont mind taking a little risk. Ive got to have a chat with Ken later about a few expensive things.But to make it clear after having his 650 K1639 kit I dont want or need any more power than that. It was the best of both worlds.
Needles to say the Cosworth takes precedence for now but I feel the way to go is keep the Cosworth as a prestige classic and run the living crap out of a 6tt

supermono

6,627 posts

134 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
I straight away found the GT2 just a bit more responsive in every way than the turbo although the larger turbos made it just a bit more laggy, compensated for I guess by the lighter weight but still there. If you change gear mid corner not on the limit but it'll steer as the rear squat action does something so it feels a bit edgier if you like. Steering more direct naturally.

But especially now its suspension is renewed the thing isn't even remotely dangerous and you sound like a bit of a speed freak so you definitely have nothing to fear of a GT2.

Mine gives me the exact same feeling of respect as a gsxr1000 or blade, especially in the rain.

SM

Edited by supermono on Friday 9th November 07:26

GT Two

2,572 posts

78 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
I had a 500+ 996tt and a 650ish GT2.

No question you can abuse the 996tt power even in the wet/cold in a way you cant in the GT2. You learn to hone your skills, completley concentrating on every road surface ahead looking for something that is going to throw you a curve ball.

A really good Geo is key in the GT2, I had a few and the best one I had transformed the car.

The GT2 is much more exciting.

I kept my 996tt for a year and found it fairly mundane even when modded, it felt heavy and cumbersome but with a lot of grunt.

The GT2 I kept for 4 years and still miss sometimes.

supermono

6,627 posts

134 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
This is the nub of it I think, the whole sense of occasion and specialness you get in a GT2 compared to a turbo.

Perhaps that makes them feel dangerous and the rep came from the early press car which was set up to be "exciting"

You might want to read evo mag from a few years ago their "scary cars" edition, naturally they put a GT2 in the lineup (mine as it goes) and they concluded it wasn't deserving of the reputation. Interestingly it was quickest round the test track too.

SM

Rob_T

1,765 posts

137 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
the gt2 is perfectly driveable and safe as a road car, unless you're an idiot.

i did lots of track days in mine and only lost control of it once. huge amounts of grip and great fun. no experience of a turbo. don't really see the point of them.

996GT2

2,351 posts

96 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
Rob_T said:
the gt2 is perfectly driveable and safe as a road car, unless you're an idiot.
Agreed. It's not rocket science, it's basic physics, the car has a lot of power that it throws at you quickly with no help from clever software, it's only dangerous when driven by an idiot.







My old car and GT Two's at brands hatch, mine was quick, his was mental smile

jfp

358 posts

109 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
My views, not necessarily correct of course..

A 996 Turbo is a lot easier to drive full stop. Its soft, it tends to understeer, and of course it has the electronics to help you. Its probably quicker on the road given average driver ability. It makes for a lovely, fast, comfortable, relaible, tractable, capable road car.

The GT2 is easy to drive at legal speed limits, however with upwards of 550bhp they are brutal. I had one particular moment in mine recently at circa 120mph on a wet track, the front went (understeer) then the rear went (oversteer) through the fast left hander after the noise meter at Brunters. It focus's the attention when a chassis reacts to changes in road surface and grip levels so quickly. Exiting the cut through in 4th you need a deft dab of oppo or again you will be off backwards.... in a Turbo it probably would have been sorted out for you before you realised anything had happened, and you would probably have half the torque at the rear wheels compared with the GT2 at that point (less overall torque shared between 4 wheels not 2).

To master the GT2 is not easy, and I'm by no means there yet. I cannot think of a harder road car to drive (at the cars limit) that I have ever driven. At 80% they are a doddle. The rub is the Turbo is a doddle at 98%, and there in lies the difference... The Turbo is more in line with modern supercars in that performance is relatively easily accessible, and some people read a little boring. In in-experienced hands the GT2 is a disaster in waiting.

Both are tremendous cars - just very, very different.

Jon.

Sunnysidebb

Original Poster:

1,341 posts

53 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
jfp said:
My views, not necessarily correct of course..

A 996 Turbo is a lot easier to drive full stop. Its soft, it tends to understeer, and of course it has the electronics to help you. Its probably quicker on the road given average driver ability. It makes for a lovely, fast, comfortable, relaible, tractable, capable road car.

The GT2 is easy to drive at legal speed limits, however with upwards of 550bhp they are brutal. I had one particular moment in mine recently at circa 120mph on a wet track, the front went (understeer) then the rear went (oversteer) through the fast left hander after the noise meter at Brunters. It focus's the attention when a chassis reacts to changes in road surface and grip levels so quickly. Exiting the cut through in 4th you need a deft dab of oppo or again you will be off backwards.... in a Turbo it probably would have been sorted out for you before you realised anything had happened, and you would probably have half the torque at the rear wheels compared with the GT2 at that point (less overall torque shared between 4 wheels not 2).

To master the GT2 is not easy, and I'm by no means there yet. I cannot think of a harder road car to drive (at the cars limit) that I have ever driven. At 80% they are a doddle. The rub is the Turbo is a doddle at 98%, and there in lies the difference... The Turbo is more in line with modern supercars in that performance is relatively easily accessible, and some people read a little boring. In in-experienced hands the GT2 is a disaster in waiting.

Both are tremendous cars - just very, very different.

Jon.
Thats very much in line with what I was thinking and tbh it would be in relatively in experienced RWD hands.
Thanks for your input.

Slippydiff

6,381 posts

109 months

[news] 
Friday 9th November 2012 quote quote all
Frank, way back in my previous PH posts, when I was considering buying a 996 GT2, you could find one of my posts asking whether I could retrofit TC to a GT2 ! !
Lots of scaremongering/widowmaker posts had led me to believe the GT2 was downright dangerous
The reality was/is VERY different. Firstly they have huge amounts of grip (if set up with a decent geometry)
Secondly, I had a few moments behind the wheel, but I can say hand on heart, only through my own stupidity or lack of concentration.
Any accident in a GT2 will be due to injudicious use of the right pedal, that has nothing to do with the car, and everything to do with the driver behind the wheel.

They are far more tactile and engaging ucompared to a Turbo, they don't cosset, they need concentration and thought to drive quickly, additionally,in standard form they have neither the suspension travel or compliance of a Turbo, that makes them more more likely to bite back when presssing on across less than smooth roads.

For some, outright speed from A to B is all that matters, be that in a straight line or around the twisties. For others the drive is about engagement, tactility and being part of/involved in the driving process to the maximum.
A 964 RS will never be te quickest thing from A to B along a typiccal selection of UK roads, but it will be tactile, fun, visceral and require you work with it to make it's inherant tail heavy handling traits work to your advantage. They're noisy, harsh riding and hard work. But on the right roads (ie those not a million mile from your front door) they're a real blast.
Tackle the same road in a 996/997 Turbo S and you'll annihilate a 964RS, 993RS and most likely a 996 Mk1/2 GT3. The four wheel drive and long travel, compliant suspension remove the need to manage weight transfer, in short, the car does a large majority of the work for you.

For some, that awesome point to point ability will fill their requirements, for others such as me, it's not the getting from A to B in the shortest time, it's the enjoyment of driving a car with feedback/tactility, that's reasonably quick, is engaging and leaves you feeling like you were a part of the driving process, rather than the car doing the majority of work on your behalf.

The GT2 isn't solely about outright speed, it's about being blindingly quick AND being engaging/tactile.

Sunnysidebb

Original Poster:

1,341 posts

53 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th November 2012 quote quote all
Slippydiff said:
Frank, way back in my previous PH posts, when I was considering buying a 996 GT2, you could find one of my posts asking whether I could retrofit TC to a GT2 ! !
Lots of scaremongering/widowmaker posts had led me to believe the GT2 was downright dangerous
The reality was/is VERY different. Firstly they have huge amounts of grip (if set up with a decent geometry)
Secondly, I had a few moments behind the wheel, but I can say hand on heart, only through my own stupidity or lack of concentration.
Any accident in a GT2 will be due to injudicious use of the right pedal, that has nothing to do with the car, and everything to do with the driver behind the wheel.

They are far more tactile and engaging ucompared to a Turbo, they don't cosset, they need concentration and thought to drive quickly, additionally,in standard form they have neither the suspension travel or compliance of a Turbo, that makes them more more likely to bite back when presssing on across less than smooth roads.

For some, outright speed from A to B is all that matters, be that in a straight line or around the twisties. For others the drive is about engagement, tactility and being part of/involved in the driving process to the maximum.
A 964 RS will never be te quickest thing from A to B along a typiccal selection of UK roads, but it will be tactile, fun, visceral and require you work with it to make it's inherant tail heavy handling traits work to your advantage. They're noisy, harsh riding and hard work. But on the right roads (ie those not a million mile from your front door) they're a real blast.
Tackle the same road in a 996/997 Turbo S and you'll annihilate a 964RS, 993RS and most likely a 996 Mk1/2 GT3. The four wheel drive and long travel, compliant suspension remove the need to manage weight transfer, in short, the car does a large majority of the work for you.

For some, that awesome point to point ability will fill their requirements, for others such as me, it's not the getting from A to B in the shortest time, it's the enjoyment of driving a car with feedback/tactility, that's reasonably quick, is engaging and leaves you feeling like you were a part of the driving process, rather than the car doing the majority of work on your behalf.

The GT2 isn't solely about outright speed, it's about being blindingly quick AND being engaging/tactile.
Some where in the back of my mind I do remember reading same post and some of it must have stuck.
To be very honest I found my tip 6tt relatively engaging but I just couldn't shake that manual gear change bug, it lay dormant and no matter how I dressed the tip up in the end it wasnt just about pure no lag acceleration I need more, hence for now the Cosworth.
At my age and skill level I tend to lean against a cheep 6tt manual that I can do up slowly with some help from Ken. That would be engaging enough for me and probably more forgiving.
I love the looks of the GT2 and that can be addressed on the turbo and quite frankly I dont give a hoot about anyone on here moaning about GT2 body kits on a 6tt. I drive and own a car for me and not for forums...so no issues there.

Thanks again for your balance input.

driving

RWD cossie wil

2,888 posts

59 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th November 2012 quote quote all
Hey Frank smile . I have thought long & hard about selling up my Cosworths & going to a 996tt manual, but my concern is that it won't be as "interesting" to drive/ own as a 450+bhp rwd sapphire or my Escort once it's finished.

The GT2 would be my choice looking at paper figures & the RWD aspect, but I couldn't stretch to one outright I don't think just by selling up the Cosworths where I could with a turbo.

My heart lies with RWD, so it would be a GT2 for me.

Coming back to an Escort Cossie after your 9e 996, does it still excite you to drive?

Sunnysidebb

Original Poster:

1,341 posts

53 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th November 2012 quote quote all
RWD cossie wil said:
Hey Frank smile . I have thought long & hard about selling up my Cosworths & going to a 996tt manual, but my concern is that it won't be as "interesting" to drive/ own as a 450+bhp rwd sapphire or my Escort once it's finished.

The GT2 would be my choice looking at paper figures & the RWD aspect, but I couldn't stretch to one outright I don't think just by selling up the Cosworths where I could with a turbo.

My heart lies with RWD, so it would be a GT2 for me.

Coming back to an Escort Cossie after your 9e 996, does it still excite you to drive?
Hi Will,
Power wise nothing like it. ATM its only on greens and running 20 psi so approx 280 bhp.
Handeling is different and lively but very firm and it conforms very well. Still too sonn to tell though yet.
ive been to see harvey and Jim yesterday and discussed a few things biggrin

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