Do I really need a 3D HDMI cable?
Discussion
I set up my new Samsung SmartTV yesterday and promptly broke one of the pairs of 3D glasses (
) so popped to Currys for some more and noticed that they were advocating the use of a 3D HDMI lead - I know not to actually buy their leads as they are hideously expensive but I was wondering if my bog-standard HDMI from Sky to TV, that is of unknown origin, is sufficient?
At first glance, Sky 3D 'appears' to be OK but I don't really have much of a comparison, not having had it before - any info would be gratefully received
) so popped to Currys for some more and noticed that they were advocating the use of a 3D HDMI lead - I know not to actually buy their leads as they are hideously expensive but I was wondering if my bog-standard HDMI from Sky to TV, that is of unknown origin, is sufficient?At first glance, Sky 3D 'appears' to be OK but I don't really have much of a comparison, not having had it before - any info would be gratefully received
3D cables do indeed work very well because as soon as you realise you've spent a fortune on a digital lead your eyes will pop out bringing the screen seemingly closer and widening the distance between your eyes. Both will increase the 3d effect!
Seriously though as an advocate of good quality analogue cables when it comes to a digital lead there is no need, for a normal length of cable, for expensive leads.
Seriously though as an advocate of good quality analogue cables when it comes to a digital lead there is no need, for a normal length of cable, for expensive leads.
Theres actually no such thing as a 1.3 or 1.4 cable. the HDMI version numbers refer to the hardware not the cable. The body who define HDMI are very specific about not labelling cables as 1.3 etc but weirdly a lot of manufacturers and sellers seem to ignore this.
HDMI cables are either High or Standard speed and either type can be with or without Ethernet (with ethernet seems to be pretty pointless to me as both devices need to support it and at least one device still needs a network connection so the other devices can share it to do anything, if you need network connections it makes more sense to just use normal ethernet)
In reality the High or standard just relates to what the cable has been tested at and passed so in a lot of cases a standard speed cable will work for anything.
Bottom line if your cable works without any obvious artefacts or loss of signal then its pointless swapping it.
P.S. I previously used to moderate the cables section on Avforums so have seen this discussion more times than I'd care to mention
HDMI cables are either High or Standard speed and either type can be with or without Ethernet (with ethernet seems to be pretty pointless to me as both devices need to support it and at least one device still needs a network connection so the other devices can share it to do anything, if you need network connections it makes more sense to just use normal ethernet)
In reality the High or standard just relates to what the cable has been tested at and passed so in a lot of cases a standard speed cable will work for anything.
Bottom line if your cable works without any obvious artefacts or loss of signal then its pointless swapping it.
P.S. I previously used to moderate the cables section on Avforums so have seen this discussion more times than I'd care to mention
JimbobVFR said:
P.S. I previously used to moderate the cables section on Avforums so have seen this discussion more times than I'd care to mention
Jimbob, can you answer something for me that's been nagging at me for some time.For my sins, I sometimes buy What HiFi to catch up on new models and some comparison tests. I have a degree of faith, for example, that their group test winner for e.g. TVs will probably be a decent set.
However, can you explain how on earth they can get away with the utter s
te they write about HDMI cables having "deeper blacks" and "crisper sound" than other cables? They advocate £70 HDMI cables offering "more" than other cables. Same for ethernet cables.How do they maintain any credibility when they peddle such nonsense?
PhilboSE said:
How do they maintain any credibility when they peddle such nonsense?
I can't answer for Jimbob, but IMHO What Hifi lost any kind of credibility years ago. Cables that make huge differences to the picture (and sound), BluRay players that produce deeper blacks/more vibrant colours, etc, etc. They even reviewed a projector I owned that was commonly known as needing an external processor to correct the oversaturated colours and yet they reviewed the colours as 'highly accurate'.FWIW I have a 5 year old 12 metre '1080p' HDMI cable that runs behind my skirting, flooring, etc to feed my projector. The first one I bought wouldn't give a picture with 1080p, just noise, though it worked at 720p. I bought this one specifically labelled as 1080p and again tested it fully before installing. I've since fed 1080/60p at 36 bit deepcolour (no point, I was just testing the cable with the highest data rate I could produce) and it worked perfectly, so I fully expect 1080/24p 3D to work too. The only thing is that I don't think my cable is wired for audio return, but being as it's connected to a projector, that isn't an issue.
So, as already said, if it works, then you're good to go and don't need to buy a 'special' 3D cable.
OldSkoolRS said:
FWIW I have a 5 year old 12 metre '1080p' HDMI cable that runs behind my skirting, flooring, etc to feed my projector.
...
So, as already said, if it works, then you're good to go and don't need to buy a 'special' 3D cable.
Sure, pretty much the ONLY differences between HDMI cables are the length of run they can maintain their signal quality - and the cheapo ones run out around at 10m....
So, as already said, if it works, then you're good to go and don't need to buy a 'special' 3D cable.
I just don't understand how What HiFi? can pretend to be aimed at "enthusiasts" when they apply the same old cr4p about analogue sources & cables to the digital domain. It didn't have much merit for analogue but there is demonstrably none for digital.
The misinformation still pervades the industry. I once had a stand-up argument with a salesperson in a "hifi" shop about the digital transport bit of a CD player being no different on a £30 no-name to a £7000 high end version. Of course, if the CD deck had a DAC built in fed to an analogue amp then that would significantly affect the experience - but we were talking just about the data being read off the CD.
When he told me that the error *correction* on his expensive CD player was "better" than on the cheapo version, I walked out the shop.
OldSkoolRS said:
PhilboSE said:
How do they maintain any credibility when they peddle such nonsense?
I can't answer for Jimbob, but IMHO What Hifi lost any kind of credibility years ago. Cables that make huge differences to the picture (and sound), BluRay players that produce deeper blacks/more vibrant colours, etc, etc. They even reviewed a projector I owned that was commonly known as needing an external processor to correct the oversaturated colours and yet they reviewed the colours as 'highly accurate'.FWIW I have a 5 year old 12 metre '1080p' HDMI cable that runs behind my skirting, flooring, etc to feed my projector. The first one I bought wouldn't give a picture with 1080p, just noise, though it worked at 720p. I bought this one specifically labelled as 1080p and again tested it fully before installing. I've since fed 1080/60p at 36 bit deepcolour (no point, I was just testing the cable with the highest data rate I could produce) and it worked perfectly, so I fully expect 1080/24p 3D to work too. The only thing is that I don't think my cable is wired for audio return, but being as it's connected to a projector, that isn't an issue.
So, as already said, if it works, then you're good to go and don't need to buy a 'special' 3D cable.
What Hi-Fi for me lost credibility years ago. You only need to see how many cable manufacturers advertise in their pages to answer the question as to why they say what they say. If they were honest I would imagine they would soon start losing ad revenue.
Oh and ARC doesn't have extra wiring in the cable or connecter so that should work with your cable as well.
Whilst I can't comment on any particular lead, HDMI cables do suffer from signal degrodation. There is an in built system within them to minimise this but never the less it still exists. It's debateable how much the human eye could detect i'm sure but to say every cable is the same would be burying our head in the sand. Within the HDMI lead their are two wires that carry the signal, one is an inverse of the other. These are used to compensate for any signal loss. However, this system doesn't erradicate just minimise. It is worthwhile to note though that this wouldn't be necessary if signal loss in a digital environment didn't exist. 
PhilboSE said:
Of course, if the CD deck had a DAC built in fed to an analogue amp then that would significantly affect the experience - but we were talking just about the data being read off the CD.
When he told me that the error *correction* on his expensive CD player was "better" than on the cheapo version, I walked out the shop.
That would have been your loss then.When he told me that the error *correction* on his expensive CD player was "better" than on the cheapo version, I walked out the shop.
A CD is not a perfect media with ones and noughts on. It is in fact an analogue media with physical peaks and troughs which can not only be imperfect, handling or damage to the CD can make parts unreadable. When that is the case, the player reverts to one of two 'backup' sections automatically.
So, the quality of the laser and transport can, and does make a difference. Through my company which has burnt in the region of 2000 different CDR projects, all from a CD master, have seen errors imparted to the 'product' disc simply because the read of the master was so poor. Read the same disc with a different drive, at a different speed or use the hardware 'error correction' on the drive, and the image file created was free from errors - as would be the product discs.
However, there is nothing magic about the CD transport over say a streaming device with the same files on. The issue is that in 1984 holding 650MB of data was astonishing in itself and the media although not a perfect way of holding data, for the most part would fulfil the promise it gave of convenient digital audio. Today however getting an imperfect read of a CD player is pointless, when you can get a good 'rip' and stream the same file.
As for the 3D cable for Sky? The signal is actually two 720p 'halves' to the picture, and I use the freebee Sky branded cable that came with the box and it works fine.
Road2Ruin said:
Whilst I can't comment on any particular lead, HDMI cables do suffer from signal degrodation. There is an in built system within them to minimise this but never the less it still exists. It's debateable how much the human eye could detect i'm sure but to say every cable is the same would be burying our head in the sand. Within the HDMI lead their are two wires that carry the signal, one is an inverse of the other. These are used to compensate for any signal loss. However, this system doesn't erradicate just minimise. It is worthwhile to note though that this wouldn't be necessary if signal loss in a digital environment didn't exist.
In recognition of the losses in a cable many devices apply a pre equalisation to the output signal. Although a digital signal is just 1s and 0s, the transition between the two states is like a square wave, so the pre EQ creates an overshoot that the cable's losses will round off so that at the other end the device gets a clean switch between the 0s and 1s. In fact some devices don't work very well with a short cable as there isn't enough loss to round off the pre EQ (in other words, 'they don't like it up them' ). Lumagen is a highly respected manufacturer of external video processors and they generally advise using HDMI cables of 2 metres and over rather than 1 meter for this reason. I had a problem getting a device to handshake properly with my projector (a Darbee Darblet device at the end of a long HDMI cable). I'd used a spare 1 metre cable I had and it wouldn't work 9 times out of 10. I replaced the cable with a longer one (5 metres as that was all I had to hand) and it worked every time. I've since bought a 3 metre cable (as I plan to thread this behind that plasterboard between the Darbee and the projector) and this also works perfectly, though it was a £3-4 job from Amazon.So long as the signal isn't breaking down causing handshake issues or 'sparkling' effects on the picture, then IMHO the signal is being received sufficiently, then you are good to go. You can even test a cable by sending a deepcolour signal down it if your player allows this option (this sends more data down the cable as it interpolates extra data or sometimes simply 'pads' the 8 bit signal with extra bits). If this signal can be displayed without obvious artifacts and drop outs, then your cable is more than up to the job as mine is at 36 bit and 1080/60p. Just make sure you reset your player back to normal 8 bit output as there is no point sending this higher bitrate signal to the display (except in very rare cases where it might result in less banding on some displays) as there are no BluRays (or DVDs) with more than 8 bit content on them.
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