Thursday 15th November 2012

Where Jag went wrong

How Jaguar lost it post E-Type and why the F-Type is a return to form, by the firm's celebrated former test driver

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As you might have guessed from the name, the new Jaguar F-Type is pitched as a return to sports car greatness for the firm.

The bar was set by the Le Mans winning C-Type and D-Type of the 1950s, raised higher by the glitz of the '150mph' E-Type the following decade, and then knocked off by the portly XJS from 1975. So what happened?

Dewis gives PH's Gibbs the low-down

Blame the success of the E-Type, America and the stinginess of Jaguar founder William Lyons, says the company's famed former test driver Norman Dewis.

You can date the moment Jaguar swung away from its sports car path: October 13, 1956, when Jaguar officially stopped racing. "Lyons said to me one day, 'Dewis, you're spending too much time racing and not enough on production'. And that was it, we stopped," Dewis tells PistonHeads. "He would not increase the time to cope with both - he was very tight with the money."

Happily the E-type launched in 1961 was based on the race-winning D-type and kept much of that car's sporting genes. The independent rear suspension, disc brakes, that wonderfully slippery aerodynamic shape, the absence of a separate chassis - all these meant it could be called a sports car without fear of contradiction.

XJS spoke better American than English

And it was hugely popular. "Everybody wanted it, especially the Americans. The Americans went barmy over it. We couldn't make enough," says Dewis.

The racers clamoured for lightweight versions and Jaguar's sporting crown stayed on.

But Lyons became dependent on the dollar. "By the time the XJS came out our main market was America - 75 per cent of production went there," says Dewis.

And that meant giving them what they asked for. "They said, although we like the E-T

ype, it's a little bit small inside. They wanted a sports car, but with automatic transmission, power steering... They controlled our style and shape."

Pretty soon the view of car buyers this side of the pond were all but dismissed. "Take brakes. I'd say they're okay for America, but we'll have to change them for Europe. He'd say, 'Dewis, I'm not bothered about Europe. Why do I need to bother about Europe?'"

New F-type will get a manual, eventually

These days the US is still Jaguar's number one market and yes, when it goes on sale early next year, the F-Type won't be offered with a manual gearbox. But the company has said there is a manual in development and the car certainly looks every inch how a modern Jaguar sports car should look. There was even talk last year that Jaguar might return to top-flight Le Mans racing.

Dewis is impressed. "This is getting Jaguar to where it always should be. A good saloon car and a good sports car."

[DonkeyApple]

And it was hugely popular. "Everybody wanted it, especially the Americans. The Americans went barmy over it. We couldn't make enough," says Dewis

And if that is the case then they comprehensively failed to price it correctly, the kind of gross inefficiency that leads you with insufficient free funds to continue development.

[f328nvl]

I've met Norman a couple of times at various events and if he can hear what you ask, he's a wonderful source of jaw dropping stories. The proposed burst tyre test on E Types is a classic of its type (they suggested shooting them out as he drove past!). Hopefully with Duncan Callam's pen, Tata's money and an appropriate balance of respect for heritage and technology (i.e. no more retro barges) Coventry will once again be proud of it's output.

A manual F-Type is interesting...

[fatboy b]

The Crack Fox said:

"Lost it" is a bit strong, .

Journalistic sensationalism. PH lowering itself to the Daily Fail

[StottyZr]

Not sure where they went wrong. Can we have a bigger picture of the F type? I haven't seen it since the launch and it looks every bit as beautiful now. They really are onto a winner with a car that looks like that

[Captain Muppet]

DonkeyApple said:

And it was hugely popular. "Everybody wanted it, especially the Americans. The Americans went barmy over it. We couldn't make enough," says Dewis

And if that is the case then they comprehensively failed to price it correctly, the kind of gross inefficiency that leads you with insufficient free funds to continue development.

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

[kambites]

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough for a significant proportion of the production run, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

[TA14]

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

Or they should have had more production capacity.

[kambites]

TA14 said:

Or they should have had more production capacity.

Or that, yes.

[renrut]

IMO I don't think they lost it other than in build quality and keeping up with the times technology/style wise which to a certain extent wasn't their fault while in the BL monster.

I'm a little concerned that all of the current crop of jags look very much from the same mold esp the XF and XJ. I always liked Jags because they didn't seem to be tow the 'corporate face' as much as their rivals, often the corporate face only really looks good on one car in the range and the rest it looks like it was squeezed to fit. Ok the XK and F type aren't identical but it does look a bit like they didn't bother doing anything. The saving grace of this is that they're all good looking cars, I just wonder how far it'll go.

[JREwing]

I wouldn't say that Jaguar ever 'lost it'. Mistakes were made and it could be argued that Jaguar could be in a BMW-esque role in the market but the fact that they retained enough brand cachet through enough good products over the years suggests to me that on the whole they did more good than bad.

[TA14]

JREwing said:

I wouldn't say that Jaguar ever 'lost it'.

Replacing one of the best looking cars ever with something that can be described as bland at best could be considered to having 'lost it'

[PascalBuyens]

Coupé and manual... might get very tempting if it looks anywhere close to the CX-16...

[Captain Muppet]

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough for a significant proportion of the production run, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

I'd define "underpriced" as priced too low to make a profit. I assumed the optimimum state for selling a thing is to make profit on each unit and have more customers than units, and that having fewer customers than units is bad. But then I'm an engineer and shouldn't be allowed near customers.

Maybe there wouldn't have been such a demand for the car if the launch price had been higher.

As I said, I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

[Twincam16]

Norman Dewis is a great source of stories and even he admitted to Jaguar themselves that they lost it.

Last time I spoke to him, he told me about the time when, in the late '80s, newly privatised and looking to cut costs, Jaguar took away his company car (an XJ6) and told him he had to buy his own.

He went out, road-tested the various saloons on offer, and plumped for the then-new Alfa Romeo 164 V6, which he ordered in bright red, and continued to arrive at Browns Lane for work and would park outside the factory, right at the front.

Within a few months they gave him a new XJ40

[kambites]

Captain Muppet said:

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough for a significant proportion of the production run, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

I'd define "underpriced" as priced too low to make a profit..

Ah, OK. I'd define it as priced to low to make the maximum possible profit.

[groomi]

I'd argue that 'it went wrong' with the bloated and ungainly Series 3 E-type. The XJS really just carried on from where that left off.

But as others have said, the product was never really the problem - the finances were, which stopped them doing what they wanted to do.

[TA14]

groomi said:

But as others have said, the product was never really the problem - the finances were, which stopped them doing what they wanted to do.

But to a large extent they were linked - the unreliability in the 70s led to financial problems...

[JREwing]

TA14 said:

Replacing one of the best looking cars ever with something that can be described as bland at best could be considered to having 'lost it'

Are you referring to the E-Type and the XJ-S?
I must be one of the only people who actually prefers the S. And either way, that's subjective.

[TA14]

JREwing said:

TA14 said:

Replacing one of the best looking cars ever with something that can be described as bland at best could be considered to having 'lost it'

Are you referring to the E-Type and the XJ-S?
I must be one of the only people who actually prefers the S. And either way, that's subjective.

Yes and fair enough. Personally I like the 420G and 4.2C for styling but I think that we have to accept that ours is a minority view.

[Hellbound]

I won't be surprised if this car gets 5 stars all round by British motoring journalists.