Friday 16th November 2012

Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 Turbo

Too fast to be fun? Tell Dan he's got it all wrong about the 911 Turbo

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Taking aim at a car as iconic as the 911 Turbo is, even within the context of Tell Me I’m Wrong, a bold move. The clue is in the title though and the invitation to tell me I’m full of it is open and just a click away. But at least let me have my say first!

Quick, slow, quick, quick, slow...

Now, the beauty of the 911 is that it can be had in any number of different flavours to suit different tastes. Such is the adaptability of the basic package – and Porsche’s long practised ability to monetise it – that you could argue that ‘911’ describes a standalone class of car, rather than a single model with lots of derivatives.

The person, for instance, who buys a two-pedal 4S Cabriolet is likely to have very, very different tastes to the one who buys a track-prepped GT3 variant full of scaffolding and with a loyalty card at the Pistenklause in the glovebox. If only they did such a thing.

I’m talking sweeping generalisations here as someone will no doubt pop up and say “I’ve had both!” below but work with me here. They’re different cars aimed at different people and this isn’t a value judgement about who’s right or wrong.

Turbo used to equal scary but not any more

Simple pleasures
I’ll put my cards on the table and say my personal tastes in 911 are pretty simple. Coupe, manual gearbox, two-wheel drive and normally aspirated. It could be a base Carrera or a GT3 but those are my lines in the sand.

So what’s the beef with Turbos? Taste is the recurring theme here and, speaking personally, I’ve just never quite gelled with turbocharged 911s.

True, I’ve never driven a ‘proper’ one. And I’d very much like to, the shadow cast by its trademark whaletail over everything that followed impossible to avoid.

But since the Turbo grew up and got civilised it’s seemed to me to get just a little bit one-dimensional and too obsessed with the numbers and status game.

Can 500hp really be too civilised?

Fair enough, Porsche has hardly got lazy or complacent and from variable vane turbos to 500hp-plus as a viable proposition for daily transport the Turbo’s ability to make extraordinary performance feel ordinary is, for me, the heart of the issue.

First impressions
I should be more grateful. A 996 Turbo was the first Porsche I ever drove around the Nordschleife after the owner more or less forced me to do so. We’d bumped into him somewhere in Belgium at a petrol station, he correctly guessing the R26.R we were in was headed for the Eifel and asking if we knew the way because his sat-nav was saying ‘Nuremberg’ was a lot further away than he’d thought it was.

His car had been tweaked and was pushing out something north of 500hp by all accounts but what should have been a dream realised – my first 911 on the ’ring – turned out to be a little bit disappointing.

Anything more than an on-off switch?

Sure, it went well. But the beige leather and polished wood inside was incongruous but a neat metaphor for the way it handled. What I’d hoped would be a glorious, seamless flow of Nurburgring joy was instead a join the dots exercise of violent bursts of acceleration punctuated by vague and woolly tip toeing around corners. It was a hugely generous gesture on his part and a box ticked on the old bucket list but not quite the experience I’d hoped for. Saying that 996 Turbos now represent a dangerously tempting proposition in the classifieds for the price of a GT86 or hot hatch of your choosing.

A few years later I got my first drive in a 911 HUL, and another box ticked on the lifelong ambitions list. ‘My’ 911 HUL was a yellow PDK’d 997 Turbo on centre locks and ceramic brakes – pretty much a disarmingly casual shrug from Porsche as a riposte to Mizuno-san and his team’s years of obsessive development withthe GT-R. A much, much more resolved and capable car than that 996, the 997 answered all the rational dynamic questions you could throw at turbocharged 911s. And yet…

Speed ain't the problem, it's how it gets there

Top Trumps
The issue? All it did was swap small numbers on the speedo for big ones. Reallybig ones. Great for ‘mine’s faster than yours’ bragging rights. But whereas each 5mph increment on a GT3, every number passed on the rev counter and every twitch and shimmy is a rich, sensory experience I found the Turbo’s lack of transition between slow and stupidly fast left me totally cold. I guess it’s about whether you’re out to enjoy the journey or the destination and the way a normally aspirated 911 accelerates is as much about the former as it is the latter. The Turbo is so quick you just miss out on it completely.

And though much, much more capable through the corners than ever before you just get the sense in a Turbo that turns are just mildly inconvenient interruptions before the next opportunity to deploy ludicrous acceleration. Not something to be savoured.

It’s hugely impressive. But when even a straightforward in-gear overtake could see you swap a clean licence for a jail term in the blink of an eye and without really thinking about it you do begin to wonder. Too clinical and too fast to be fun perhaps?

Standard Turbo too slick? Here's the answer

There is one major elephant in the room here and it’s got ‘GT2’stamped on its rump. I’ve never driven one and therein may lay the holy grail of lunatic Turbo performance and the sense of participation you get with the more raw 911s of old. We’ll see as and when it happens.

But as we sit in anticipation for the 991 to spawn its more extreme variants I know which one I’m more excited by. And it won’t be the Turbo.

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PORSCHE 911 TURBO (997)
Engine: 3,800cc flat-6, twin-turbo
Transmission: 6-speed manual/7-speed dual-clutch auto (PDK), 4-wheel drivePower (hp): 500@6,000rpm
Torque (lb ft):479@1,950rpm (516@2,100rpm with optional Sport Chrono overboost)
0-62mph:  3.7 sec*
Top speed: 193mph*
Weight: 1,570kg*
MPG: 24.3mpg* (NEDC combined)
CO2: 272g/km*
Price: £101,823

*All stats for standard manual car; performance differs according to transmission and/or Sport Chrono options

[MikeGoodwin]

HELL no. It's not too fast!

Needs manual gearbox.

[treetops]

24.3 mpg.....yeah right.

I thnk you'll be lucky to make 15 urban.

Still if you can afford the car.....

[RobCrezz]

911 Turbos need to be louder. I think part of the problem is the lack of sound.

[HorneyMX5]

I think you're right and I've nto driven a turbo either. My idea of a proper 911 is an NA RWD car.

I think this all comes down to NA vs FI. I've always prefered the character and sound of NA engines but I suspect current generations with their turbo charged city cars will find NA to be old fashioned and pointless.

Nick

[Magic919]

Test the GT2 and compare with the GT3. That should sort it.

[chiefski26]

Easy fix = buy a c63 black series.

[richyd]

Awesome cars....and as an everyday supercar they are hard to beat.

But I do prefer the NA 911's - better noise, more linear power and crucially less weight.

[J4CKO]

Original 911 turbo nearly killed me, as a 15 year old I blagged a passenger ride with someone apt to show off, too much money and too little talent, apparently it had been tweaked and gained an extra cog int he gearbox, was at the time apoclyptic, he very nearly lost it, it understeered so he backed off and it seemed to want to spin but he managed to save it, much to the surprise of the oncoming traffic...

I drove a 964 Turbo once in Switzerland, on a streaming wet day with a hangover, the owner sat next to me laughing manically as I went white every time I tried to give it some and it started twitching.

I was a bit nonplussed with the 996 I drove on track, very approachable and easy but when you really leant on it the ESP called time on the fun in a most abrupt and unplayful manner, not sure I would want to turn it off on the road though.

997 seemed more of the same but a bit faster, didnt drive that one, was just a passenger, uneventful but fast.


So, yes as a serial 911 Turbo ride/drive blagger, yes, it has got progressively less scary.

[RichardR]

I was fortunate enough to borrow a 997.1 Turbo for a weekend and it was properly quick in comparison to my nearest benchmark, a 4.2 Cerbera. It's the only car I've driven where, when overtaking, you have to hold back on the throttle until you've moved out to overtake in order to avoid piling into the car in front instead of [very swiftly] passing it!

I've also spent time driving the 997 GT3 and GT2 at the PEC (as per the last photo in the article) but the 90 minutes seem to pass in a flash and the environment was too different to the weekend spent with the Turbo out on the public roads to be able to compare the two.

Happy days!

[Denyo]

I've recently upgraded from a 996 C4S to a 996 turbo. They are a world apart, and the turbo is such an accomplished car. I should point out it's our only car (which the Mrs drives!) so sure-footedness is important. Love a GT2, but perhaps too mental. And no back seats. Am sure there are plenty who will say the 997 turbo is a far supierior car but in reality is it worth paying 10-15k more, with equivalent miles/spec/condition really worth it? Not in my eyes.

Agree they could be a little louder, but it's a small sacrifice really.

Is it dull? Well I suppose if you are used to GT2s/GT3s some might argue it is. However for real world drivability, practicality and reliability with a real sense of occasion (OH AND SPEED) it is, IMHO far from dull for me. When you floor it and are pinned to you seat you can't help but grin!

I would say this though - for a weekend-only toy I would say it's 360 all the way. And a CS if lottery win occurs.... Until that time occurs I will enjoy every drive in the turbo. And it will still make me smile.

[monthefish]

You're wrong.

[Harry Flashman]

I agree. I sort of always wanted one, then when I went looking for a fast car, test drove a few - and was hugely disappointed. I ended up with a Morgan - a flawed, slower, worse built and less reliable car that is in every single way more special than the Porsche.

I did like the 996 GT3 I tried - but it's just a bit too hardcore.

[W124]

I too drove that yellow press car. At SMMT a couple of years back. Scared the st out of me. I can't see how you could ever really use that on the road - I have a friend who has a 996 GT3, that seems about the absolute outside edge to me. But then, I'm not that good a driver.

[thepony]

YOU ARE WRONG

This is just pure publicity stunt to get more viewers and audience on to the website to comment on this article.

Wonder what's next the BMW M3 ?

[monthefish]

thepony said:

YOU ARE WRONG

This is just pure publicity stunt to get more viewers and audience on to the website to comment on this article.

Wonder what's next the BMW M3 ?

Indeed.

[Prancing Hippo]

I don't think of it as too fast, but of course on UK roads you are more limited when you can use it...

Many people think of the 997 Turbo as a sports car, but I think of it as more of a GT. When comparing the 997 Turbo to say Ferrari's (or its generation, so excluding the 458 / FF), would you think if it as a competitor to the 612 or F430? I think more along the lines of a 612 (another PH-er pointed this out on another thread, and I agree). Therefore, I don't think it is easy to compare to GT2's or GT3's as aimed at a difference customer.

I would suggest that as a GT car, it is awesome. As a sports car it is good, but there are better options.

[Dave Hedgehog]

thepony said:

YOU ARE WRONG

This is just pure publicity stunt to get more viewers and audience on to the website to comment on this article.

Wonder what's next the BMW M3 ?

very much so, its getting very silly now

what next the Zonda R is ste cause it only does 5mpg whilst hot lapping the ring??

The mclaren F1 is useless because you cant get 4 child seats in it?

[yellowbentines]

thepony said:

YOU ARE WRONG

This is just pure publicity stunt to get more viewers and audience on to the website to comment on this article.

Nonsense, it's opinion. This is a forum, without differing opinions there would be no discussion and no point in it's very existence.

FWIW I agree, a friend is a Porsche aficionado and having driven his 911 Turbo (997) I was underwhelmed, it was an excellent car but not as exciting as I thought it'd be - no noise, no drama, too competent this side of official speed limits to entertain. He agrees and based on a couple of years experience of owning both preferred his previous Boxtster S for noise, fun and day to day driving enjoyment.

[RacingPete]

It is an interesting question posed, and I feel very privileged that I have driven the "proper" one up in Yorkshire, the 997 GT2 around Wiltshire roads, and the 997 Turbo up Gurston Down hill climb (plus a 996 GT3 variant round one of Palmer's play tracks - but I won't count that).

The 997 GT2 was an immense car, an instant feel of ease jumping into it and squeezing the throttle to shoot it up the road and throw it round a few corners felt naturally sure footed. The old school Turbo felt slow, it didn't try and kill me like I wanted it to, like I expected it to, and it was more mellowed in its older age. But go off the line at Gurston Down in its off spring 997 Turbo and my brain was nearly left behind - I have never accelerated so quickly, 2.7 seconds to 60 and 100 before I could blink any further, it was simply an amazing experience and I loved it. But I could only love it on a race track (or hill climb in this case), and thus it becomes a little pointless on the road. I wasn't underwhelmed like some say - it flew in a straight line to three figures, but it just didn't handle as well as any Porsche with GT in the title, and thus that is more fun on the roads.

But to all the above I think they are trumped in ultimate Porsche driving stakes by the 993 GT2 I drove for an afternoon, it still did Turbo silly speeds, and accelerated satisfyingly fast but you can't beat it all appearing in a nice NA package, and in that sense, Dan I can't tell you that you are wrong.

[Garlick]

It's called tell me I'm wrong where writers say what they think and ask to be convinced.

It's supposed to be provocative, it's supposed to explain how the author doesn't see things the way others do. It's not meant to be a thread where everyone nods in agreement politely.

As for it being a ploy to gain audience, if only it was that easy...