RE: PH Blog: please, don't F1 it up now...
Thursday 29th November 2012
Maybe it's just that I'm a Yorkshire tightwad unwilling to pay for Sky but, in truth, the partial move to pay-to-view has been just one factor in the sense that F1 was lost to me this year. Despite it turning out to be one of the best seasons in its history.
A fighter to the end but it wasn't to beF1 is a strange world. You have to wade through so much crap to cut to the core and enjoy the bits you actually love you question sometimes whether it's worth the effort. Somehow this year it didn't seem like it was. And certainly not paying for.
Wasn't a dull moment at InterlagosSure as hell wasn't disappointed either. Genuinely, I was on the edge of my seat. My tea went cold. I punched the air. I actually whooped. I got - deservedly - tutted at. But, at its best, that's what sport should provide. There was drama - Vettel seemingly losing it on the first lap, Hamilton's heartbreaking end to his McLaren career (for all the daft facial hair and Twitter twittery it'd have been nice to see him end that on a high), grit with Alonso's relentless determination and Webber's ultra cool 180mph four-wheel drifting into the final turn. Even comedy with Raikkonen apparently keen to knock off early and head off into downtown Sao Paulo to be first at the bar.
Fair means or foul, he did itAnd then, just as my love for F1 is fully back in bloom this. Rumours that Ferrari may appeal on a technicality and attempt to strip Vettel of his championship. Just as it seemed they'd learned how to lose with dignity.
PH Blog: please, don't F1 it up now...
Sunday restored Dan's passion for F1 - appeals to strip Vettel's title might just kill it again
A fighter to the end but it wasn't to be
I realised how wrong I'd been absent mindedly watching the qualifying for Brazil on Saturday. Passion. Reignited. So come Sunday I was glued to the telly, brew ready and settled into the sofa awaiting a year of cynicism to be exorcised. No more 'you can only tell where they're racing by the national costume montage at the start.' No more relentlessly orchestrated corporate onanism. No more need to ponder just how tight the BBC team can wear their trousers (surely the real reason Jake Humphrey is leaving - the poor man wants to start a family! ). Just proper racing
Wasn't a dull moment at Interlagos
Honestly I'd have liked to have seen Alonso win it for quitting his moaning and proving his cold, ruthless racer's heart. I liked Emerson Fittipaldi's assessment in an interview during the race build-up; having explained at length what Vettel needed to do he turned to Alonso's chances, and with clenched teeth and a wicked glint in his eye hissed "he just needs to get the knife between his teeth and GO FOR IT!"
So close.
Fair means or foul, he did it
The BBC story on it is here, following on from an impassioned 'Are we watching a championship stolen?' blog by the always opinionated and always excellent AxisOfOversteer. They seemed satisfied having reviewed the evidence, later declaring it 'Case closed' and saying Vettel was living on his wits and thinking like a champion. Will the appeal go through? God knows, but you have to hope it doesn't.
Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but if Alonso was going to win it I'd have liked it to have happened as Fittipaldi described it - on the track and with the knife in his teeth. Not with the lawyers and an FIA inquiry. By fair means or foul, Vettel won the day by being clever, opportunist and damned, damned lucky.
Please, let's leave it at that eh guys?
Dan
Discussion
Here's a quick question...
Would you rather the FIA proved that a rule-break occurred, but then let it go because it was the last race of the season and people had accepted Vettel as champion?
Brazil was a single race, rules should be applied consistently over every race from Australia onwards. The sport has a far bigger problem if they brush it under the carpet purely because it happened in Brazil.
People have been quick to criticise Ferrari over this, but they haven't and don't need to do anything. The FIA have a duty to investigate regardless.
Would you rather the FIA proved that a rule-break occurred, but then let it go because it was the last race of the season and people had accepted Vettel as champion?
Brazil was a single race, rules should be applied consistently over every race from Australia onwards. The sport has a far bigger problem if they brush it under the carpet purely because it happened in Brazil.
People have been quick to criticise Ferrari over this, but they haven't and don't need to do anything. The FIA have a duty to investigate regardless.
Edited by ukaskew on Thursday 29th November 09:13
Until it's on Autosport I'm not interested.
I get the impression someone has spotted the footage, Mr Benson has put it to Ferrari and asked what they're going to do, the contact at Ferrari can't rule anything out as it's not his call and that's where we are.
It's a non-story until someone actually appeals or the FIA confirm they're interested.
I get the impression someone has spotted the footage, Mr Benson has put it to Ferrari and asked what they're going to do, the contact at Ferrari can't rule anything out as it's not his call and that's where we are.
It's a non-story until someone actually appeals or the FIA confirm they're interested.
The thing is we all saw the yellow flag and the powers that be in the teams and Bernies lot see same pictures as ourselves so it is very odd why it wasn't picked up on the day..........You can not take away the fact that Vettel has driven brilliantly over the last few rases, but he did need a penalty for the yellow flag bit.......Shame it's all happening now after the race and really does spoil what has been a great season.....
How about a shared award and shared finances? Vettel had so much speed in hand and was coasting to get home. Alonso deserved the (umpteenth) lucky break in the race, having been so consistent in a slower car all season. He broke the rules, so yeah, he should take the hit. We'll never know what the true outcome would have been. The stewards need a slap too, as do Ferrari's backroom boys for not spotting it. I saw it. So did Brundle.
I just wish it could be done with dignity because for as much as I like Vettel, I realised I liked Alonso more this season. This would taint the championship (for me, not Alonso, I'm sure) and further underline Ferrari's win at all cost mentality, which I admire, but struggle to like.
I just wish it could be done with dignity because for as much as I like Vettel, I realised I liked Alonso more this season. This would taint the championship (for me, not Alonso, I'm sure) and further underline Ferrari's win at all cost mentality, which I admire, but struggle to like.
I really wanted Alonso to snatch the championship, but i wouldn't want (and i'm sure he wouldn't want) to win the championship on the basis of a technicality that wasn't noticed, or wasn't deemed worthy of investigation at the time.
Leave it alone. Ferrari had a much better season than they really deserved based on the car being behind the pace, and Massa not being on form at the start (maybe he didn't have his comfort blanket with him at the start of the season?). Alonso came out as moral victor for dragging the car up the grid. Likewise Raikkonen for sheer character and coolness.
Ferrari, in the words of Chopper Reid - quit your whinging and harden the f*ck up.
Leave it alone. Ferrari had a much better season than they really deserved based on the car being behind the pace, and Massa not being on form at the start (maybe he didn't have his comfort blanket with him at the start of the season?). Alonso came out as moral victor for dragging the car up the grid. Likewise Raikkonen for sheer character and coolness.
Ferrari, in the words of Chopper Reid - quit your whinging and harden the f*ck up.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20535302
The 1st two lights he passes in the video were yellow, but the one he passes just at the point of overtaking was green.
It'd have to be a brave court who rule on this one.........
The 1st two lights he passes in the video were yellow, but the one he passes just at the point of overtaking was green.
It'd have to be a brave court who rule on this one.........
Edited by Mr Noble on Thursday 29th November 09:32
Mr Noble said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20535302
The 1st two lights he passes in the video were yellow, but the one he passes just at the point of overtaking was green.
It'd have to be a brave court who rule on this one.........
Nah, look at the little vid further up the thread that doesn't have the telemetry info and it is clear that the flag is being waved.The 1st two lights he passes in the video were yellow, but the one he passes just at the point of overtaking was green.
It'd have to be a brave court who rule on this one.........
He was good to go.
M
mmmh...dodgy. I think he overtook under yellow and every single car let him through especially the Red Bull owned Toro Rosso. 
How is it that he can go from 19th to 9th so quickly but not win 10 laps before anyone else?
And Vettel saying after the race "we won against others' dirty tricks..." doesn't make him more likeable
How is it that he can go from 19th to 9th so quickly but not win 10 laps before anyone else?
And Vettel saying after the race "we won against others' dirty tricks..." doesn't make him more likeable
It's a tough and unfortunate one, this.
My love of F1 has really been rekindled this year, and if it ends up with a court deciding the outcome it really will take the shine off what's been a magical season.
But. If it's proven that he really did overtake under a yellow flag condition (which I have to admit from what I saw on the SKY coverage, it looked like he did), I can't see how they have any choice but to enforce a penalty. It's one of the most basic rules of any motorsport and one that is there for a very real reason - the safety of the driver and those attending any incident.
The trouble with introducing a penalty after the event is deciding what penalty to impose. And we'll never know whether he'd have found any extra pace to make up any difference, had the penalty been during the race.
My love of F1 has really been rekindled this year, and if it ends up with a court deciding the outcome it really will take the shine off what's been a magical season.
But. If it's proven that he really did overtake under a yellow flag condition (which I have to admit from what I saw on the SKY coverage, it looked like he did), I can't see how they have any choice but to enforce a penalty. It's one of the most basic rules of any motorsport and one that is there for a very real reason - the safety of the driver and those attending any incident.
The trouble with introducing a penalty after the event is deciding what penalty to impose. And we'll never know whether he'd have found any extra pace to make up any difference, had the penalty been during the race.
So glad it was under green. As said in the article I wanted Alonso to get it, but I wanted him to get it where it actually counts and not in courts and boardrooms.
Hopefully seeing as the GIF a bit further up this page shows a green flag, Vettel will retain his title. If he had been told during the race (if the flag was in fact yellow) then he could've pushed for more places, he backed off towards the end knowing he'd done all he needed to do. Seems a bit unsporting if he did receive a 20 second penalty and lost it just because he cruised back knowing he'd done what was needed.
When I first heard about the story, without knowing about the facts, I did get a bit annoyed and may have wondered aloud if Ferrari still had some pull with the FIA. Might have been unjustified but it did take away from an amazing end of the season to have these thoughts running through my head.
Hopefully seeing as the GIF a bit further up this page shows a green flag, Vettel will retain his title. If he had been told during the race (if the flag was in fact yellow) then he could've pushed for more places, he backed off towards the end knowing he'd done all he needed to do. Seems a bit unsporting if he did receive a 20 second penalty and lost it just because he cruised back knowing he'd done what was needed.
When I first heard about the story, without knowing about the facts, I did get a bit annoyed and may have wondered aloud if Ferrari still had some pull with the FIA. Might have been unjustified but it did take away from an amazing end of the season to have these thoughts running through my head.
I'll put it to you all like this:
If you were gunning for, even your club racing title, and you found out that you lost the championship because your main rival broke the rules, how p1ssed would you be?
ATEOTD, if Vettel has broken the rules, he deserves to be punished.
This is a balls up either way now for the FIA, so the least they can do is prove that cheaters don't win.
The people I fell most sorry for is the Marshalls. The reason you can't overtake under yellows is for their safety. It's blatantly obvious that the drivers don't give a s
t about the Marshalls, despite what they say out of the car.
If you were gunning for, even your club racing title, and you found out that you lost the championship because your main rival broke the rules, how p1ssed would you be?
ATEOTD, if Vettel has broken the rules, he deserves to be punished.
This is a balls up either way now for the FIA, so the least they can do is prove that cheaters don't win.
The people I fell most sorry for is the Marshalls. The reason you can't overtake under yellows is for their safety. It's blatantly obvious that the drivers don't give a s
t about the Marshalls, despite what they say out of the car.It looks to me like the move was legal, however even if he had been given a drive through penalty at the time, he could probably have made up the 20 or so seconds lost due to the assistance from his 'three' team mates and fellow countryman.
I didn't mind Vettel winning, until hearing his post race comments regarding the Bruno Senna incident/Ayrton's grave and suggesting other teams have used 'dirty tricks'. What a c**k.
I didn't mind Vettel winning, until hearing his post race comments regarding the Bruno Senna incident/Ayrton's grave and suggesting other teams have used 'dirty tricks'. What a c**k.
All I can see is that Vettle spots the green flag being waved and goes for it, as he should in his position.
The only confusion was that the original tv footage has the graphic obscure the marshalls post, hence could not see the green flag being waved.
With the 2nd footage, it is clear and although the colour may not be that clear, it is deffo not a yellow flag.
The only confusion was that the original tv footage has the graphic obscure the marshalls post, hence could not see the green flag being waved.
With the 2nd footage, it is clear and although the colour may not be that clear, it is deffo not a yellow flag.
This is a tough one from the point of view of a sport applying it's own rules correctly if Vettel passed under yellow flags then he should get the penalty, regardless of whether Ferrari protest or not.
From a credibilty point of view the FIA (once again) doesn't look good. They didn't apply the rules they should have done during the race probably because they didn't want to be seen to interfere with a championship. Now they are damned if they do apply a penalty damned if they don't.
From a business and money point of view, a drivers world title even a tainted one is worth $$$$ it must surely be in Ferrari/ Alonso's financial interest to appeal?
From a credibilty point of view the FIA (once again) doesn't look good. They didn't apply the rules they should have done during the race probably because they didn't want to be seen to interfere with a championship. Now they are damned if they do apply a penalty damned if they don't.
From a business and money point of view, a drivers world title even a tainted one is worth $$$$ it must surely be in Ferrari/ Alonso's financial interest to appeal?
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