51 Clio - Intermitant non-start / relay clicking / dead.

[Davie]

Chaps...
This has been a long term issue on my old dears 51 plate Clio 1.4 16v and whilst I've done the obligitory internet searching, there's seems to be a rather diverse range or opinions out there.

In short, when the temperature outside is cold (below 0deg) the car will not start. It unlocks fine, the dash powers up but when the key is turned there is nothing aside for a click from the passenger's footwell area. It doesn't crank, the needles don't pulse, it's just dead.

There is no solution aside for sitting turning the key time and time again (37 is the record) and then out of the blue it'll crank, catch immediately and run perfectly for the remainder of the day. Again, this only ever seems to happen in temperatures below zero degrees which would suggest something is contracting when cold, breaking contact and thus, nothing.

It's had a battery and I've since tested it and it's fine. It's had the terminals cleaned. It's had a crank shaft position sensor (that time it'd crank but not catch - that's since sorted months ago) and I've had the four relays out, cleaned them and refitted them. I did remove the relays, refit them and it started immediately so figured it was those however it then did it again which puts some doubt in my mind.

So, internet searching would suggest that it could be:

1. The metal shield round the ECU is shorting out the loom - which given it's metal could be possible, ie it gets cold, contracts and cuts into the wires further?

2. The green wire from the relay block into the loom which runs over the gearbox - seemingly it can get wet, corrode, swell up and break contact which again if it's damp in the loom then freezes - could be an issue?

3. The key - but both keys do it and there's no immobiliser warnings etc.

4. The relays and/or corrosion at the terminals and whilst this seems to be the most common issue, it doesn't really suggest why it only occurs in sub zero temperatures and likewise, the gearbox to body earth was suggested but again why would the cold have such an effect?

Any thoughts, suggestions or offers of valium and patience pills gratefully received.

Regards

[Mr Jenks]

Davie said:

Chaps...
1. The metal shield round the ECU is shorting out the loom - which given it's metal could be possible, ie it gets cold, contracts and cuts into the wires further?

Never seen the problem stopping it from turning over, normally rough running or stalling is the symptom with this problem

Davie said:

2. The green wire from the relay block into the loom which runs over the gearbox - seemingly it can get wet, corrode, swell up and break contact which again if it's damp in the loom then freezes - could be an issue?

Could be any one of a number of wires, not just the green one. unless they mean the one that is green inside
Again this could be any one of a number of wires

Davie said:

3. The key - but both keys do it and there's no immobiliser warnings etc.

a favourite, "it cant be the keys because they both do it" response = "maybe both your keys are bksed then", but normally they will turn over a few times and then stop. this happens a couple of times before it refuses to crank atall

Davie said:

4. The relays and/or corrosion at the terminals and whilst this seems to be the most common issue, it doesn't really suggest why it only occurs in sub zero temperatures and likewise, the gearbox to body earth was suggested but again why would the cold have such an effect?

Agree that it is common and not that relative to low temperature.

Before getting into loads of wiring, relay and ecu issues it needs a little basic testing.

When the fault occurs do you have a supply to the starter, on the solenoid feed wire? not unheard of forr starter faults.
Immobiliser light, what does it do? it should go solid for around 3 seconds when the ignition is switched on, then go off.

Does the fuel pump prime when the ignition is switched on?

[Davie]

The pump primes, the dash illuminates, turn the key and there's a click from the passengers footwell as the key is turned and then nothing happens. Repeat until a) fed up b) late for work and c) considering walking and then it'll randomly start. This only ever happens in temperatures of zero degrees of less. Monday night, -2deg = wouldn't start. Tuesday, 1deg = started. This morning, -1deg = didn't start.

[Mr Jenks]

Mr Jenks said:

Before getting into loads of wiring, relay and ecu issues it needs a little basic testing.

When the fault occurs do you have a supply to the starter, on the solenoid feed wire? not unheard of for starter faults.
Immobiliser light, what does it do? it should go solid for around 3 seconds when the ignition is switched on, then go off.

[Davie]

Unfortunately 6am starts in the cold and a lack of multi-meter means I can't answer that at present however the immobiliser lights comes on, then goes off as it should. This morning. -2deg and cue 10mins of clicking relays and nothing else. Removed them all, cleaned them, prodded some wires etc and still dead then randomly started as if nothing ever happened.

Great... but it's now progressed. Got a mile up the road, went into a shop, came out and it cranked and cranked and cranked. Got out, poked and prodded some more wires, swapped a couple of relays rounds, still cranked and cranked and so wiggled the crank sensor wiring and it cranked some more then decided to start and has been fine ever since.

I suspect I may have a solution in the form of a Mazda 2...

[mikiejack81]

Hi.
Did you find any solution to this problem?

The only thing which seems to work for me is turning the key quickly whilst the car is in gear, so the engine turns over but does not fire. After 5 or 6 in-gear "bounces", the immobiliser tends to disengage and the engine will fire.

I used to try the immobiliser reset and numerous other things, but nothing works.

I’m now sick of being late for work by having to sit for 20 minutes when it’s below freezing to get it started.

[robseagul]

There is a started relay in the passenger footwell .take it out and clean thr contacts with sandpaper..this sorted the same problem on ours. Rob auto eng

[andy-xr]

My 206 did this. The wrong battery had been fitted to it, meaning that the terminals sat a bit too low for the clamps to properly tighten, meaning that sometimes it'd work, sometimes it wouldnt. Once running was fine, just when you came to restart - nothing. Mine was the positive lead not gripping properly onto the terminals of a smaller battery - it was a few mm too low in height

[jimtech]

there is a realay in the passenger footwell and has been known to be knocked out or dislodged by people with big feet