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silverfoxcc

Original Poster:

2,021 posts

30 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
Work as a part time bus driver ,as do about 10 other drivers who do a mixture of 2/3/4 days pw spread over M-F

Currently am working two days a week, so get 2/5ths of annual holiday entitlement of 5.6 weeks ie 11.2 days
Plus Bank/Public holidays paid
New contract arrives and on reading it, it seems i could be losing a lot of holiday
to quote relevant bits

'Holiday year starts 1 Jan ends 31 Dec...part time get pro rata' ( as it is now) so now problems there

The next bit is the worrying part

'Included in the annual holiday entitlement are the following public/bank holidays with pay or alternative days as decided by us

NYD/GF/EM/Early May BH/Late MayBH/Aug BH/ Xmas Day/Boxing Day

As i read it, My working days are Mon and Fri so instead of 11 days i can take off, as now along with the Bhols,next year i will have 5 days talen out of the 11 leaving me with 6 to take off, and instad of a BH being paid in full it will now be paid at 2/5 of a day
The office has said it is to balance up everyone so we all get the same.ie a guy working Tue/Wed was never be paid for a BH but now he will. The problem i see is that except for when Xmas/Boxing day fall on a Tue/Wed he will never (as the new contract is worded) have any of the BH mentioned included in the 11 days entitlement, so he will still get his 11 days to take off

Would i be right in the above, and in order that the contracts are equal to all drivers the phrase
'Included in the annual entitlement...' be replaced by

'In addition to the annual entitlement the following bank/public holidays are included with pay...'

To use an extreme example a driver only works Mons. He will get a pro rata rate holiday entitlement of 1/5 of 5.6 weeks which is 5.6 days of which 4 are bank holidays, so he can only take one monday off during the year. In the years when Xmas/Boxing day fall on a Monday, his holiday entitlement falls to Zero. so no 'two weeks off' in the summer.
Sorry its a bit rambling,am i being paranoid, or picky?

the stigs dad

378 posts

23 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
Read it and weep. If you don't like it get another job ffs!

stroberaver

165 posts

53 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
Sounds right, that's how I've been instructed to calculate it when sorting out the holiday entitlements for my staff.

If Person A works Mondays only, and Person B works Tuesdays only, and they both get given X days of holiday for the year, then Person A gets X + nearly all the bank holidays while Person B only gets X.

So as you say, the bank holiday benefit is used to add or deduct holiday entitlement so everyone gets the same. Both Person A & B are entitled to 1/5th of the 8 bank holidays next year, round it to 1½ days.

Person A will benefit from (IIRC) 5 bank holidays on a Monday, but is only entitled to 1½, so 3½ days would be deducted from their holiday entitlement if they don't work any of the bank holidays.

Person B only benefits from (IIRC) 1 bank holiday on a Tuesday in 2013, but is entitled to 1½, so gets an extra half day added to their holiday entitlement.

silverfoxcc

Original Poster:

2,021 posts

30 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
Its the fact we are being told one thing and asking to sign another, also the contracts for the same job are not on a level playing field, a they said they would be

2 sMoKiN bArReLs

17,704 posts

120 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
I work 3 days a week, and wouldn't expect to be paid for all 8 bank holidays. Easiest way to think of it is forget the bank/general holiday split.

I just expect to get 3/5, 60% of what the full time dudes get in total.
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KevinOctiScout

6,084 posts

165 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
The way I read your OP is that the entitlement now (for full time staff) is 5.6 weeks plus bank holidays, and the new contract is 5.6 including bank holidays?

I would have thought that my reading is wrong and the current 5.6 includes the bank holidays, so you get 3/5 of 5.6. As a bus driver do you not work bank holidays if they fall on your normal work day? If you do it makes no difference does it?

silverfoxcc

Original Poster:

2,021 posts

30 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
Kevin,the bus i drive is a Minibus used for charity dial a ride work. and only M-F working week, Sats are voluntary. Due to Council charity grants being cut I think that they think that by cutting the Monday drivers BH pay from a full day to (in my case 2/5ths) they will save money, but in drivers days numbers there are more working Tues-Thur than Mon and Fri so it is going to cost them more.
since i have been there the service doesnt work BH, and this will not change next year.
They tell us there will no difference between this year ( 11 days hols plus BH) and next year, But reading the contract, i will get 11 days and ou of that i HAVE to take a day off for each BH) so next year i will have 11-5 BH equals 6 days, so despite what they say the amount of days drops from 11 to 11-5 (6). I am not worried about the pay alterations, in fact was rather surprised that i got full pay for BH, but really dont want to lose the equivalant of two weeks full time holiday

Devil2575

7,903 posts

73 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2012 quote quote all
the stigs dad said:
Read it and weep. If you don't like it get another job ffs!
I think you're right, he needs to find another job, but you need to learn some manners wink

lestershaw

1,577 posts

43 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
im not sure what you are entitled to, but most people only get 4 weeks plus holidays, so you are already a share of 1.6 weeks better off

matchmaker

4,278 posts

85 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
lestershaw said:
im not sure what you are entitled to, but most people only get 4 weeks plus holidays, so you are already a share of 1.6 weeks better off
For a person working 35 hours over a 5 day week the minimum entitlement is 28 days. In many jobs bank holidays will have to be taken out of that entitlement.

REALIST123

3,670 posts

38 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
lestershaw said:
im not sure what you are entitled to, but most people only get 4 weeks plus holidays, so you are already a share of 1.6 weeks better off
Not surprising, it's a Cuncil job.

Excuse me being rude, but either suck it up or get a real job.

mercfunder

3,593 posts

58 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
the stigs dad said:
Read it and weep. If you don't like it get another job ffs!
You're an absolute charmer ain't yer?

Every post you make drips vitriol, why don't you do us all a favour and fk off.

silverfoxcc

Original Poster:

2,021 posts

30 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
Is Realist123 stigsdad son?
both seem rather short of manners

ok let me put this in its simplest terms as it seems the question may be too hard for some people
Holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks which if you work M-F is 28 days ok?
If you work part time you get the equivelant portion of that as a pro rata basis
Excluding fractions of days that really equates to 5 days holiday per year per day worked
So lets take two upstanding contributors to this topic

Stigsdad and realist123

Stigs dad works one day a week, Monday, therefore he is entitled to 5 days off (Mondays) per year ok? Stig has to take two weeks off in July for his holiday timeshare home. Weeks cannot be changed
Realist also works one day a week ,Tuesday, so he is also entitled to five days (Tuesdays) off per year... still with me? Realist is also in the same position holiday timeshare fixed weeks

Now both contracts state exactly as i have put in the original post, but will repeat it here

'Included in the annual holiday entitement are the following bank holidays........ (4 of which, you will note, are mondays)Stig now has to take these as Compulsory mondays, so stig now has ONE monday left to take off, whilst Realist still has his 5 Tuesdays
Now Stigs holidayshare can only be used for one week in July as he can only have one monday off.
Meanwhile realist can take two tuesdays to take his holiday AND still has three others to take whenever he likes.

When New years day, Xmas day, or Boxing day fall on a monday thats the last monday taken away from stigs 5 days and his holiday home remains empty His 'five days holiday' are the bank holidays which we dont work anyway

Would you suck that up?

And if i could find a job that has the same hours and satisfaction i would ship out tomorrow

As i said, to me its the principal not the money

Corpulent Tosser

3,954 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
So from your example.

Both Stigsdad and realist123 work one day per week and both get the same number of paid holidays. The problem being compulsary holidays, can you not work the bank holidays to allow you to take the time off to suit yourself?


7db

5,950 posts

115 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
silverfoxcc said:
His 'five days holiday' are the bank holidays which we dont work anyway
But for which he does get paid.

You get 28 days a year. The office is close some days. Perhaps ask if you can move some of your Mondays so you aren't paid but don't have to take holiday if you need more days off. Isn't it about being flexible.

Assume Stig, in practice, goes on the sick for the two weeks he needs off for his holiday home.


Isaac Hunt

7,165 posts

96 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
I work four days a week Tuesday - Friday. I get four fifths of the full timers' holiday entitlement including bank holidays.

Full time employees get 22 days plus 8 bank holiday = 30 days

I get four fifths = 24 days

However, if a bank holiday falls on my normal day off i.e. Monday - then I don't have to take it out of my 24 days. If the bank holiday is on Tuesday-Friday, then I use up a day of my 24 days entitlement.

This follows guidelines on the Gov website regarding P/T employment and holiday.

bodhi808

125 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
As I understand it you're (OP) interpreting the change of conditions correctly.
It's not brilliant, but it's really an unfortunate result of your working days.

Would perhaps be worth looking to change your working days if this new arrangement doesn't suit you.

As it was you had it very cushy, maybe this is the biggest issue for you now?

With your old contract, you work 2 days per week, so 104 days/year give or take.
Of those 104 days you had paid days off for a minimum of 16 days (11 days holiday & 5 BHs) and maximum of 19 days (11 days holiday & 8 BHs) per year. That's in the range of 15.4-18.3% of your working year as paid holiday.
Compare that to most people doing a standard 5 day working week, circa 260 days per year with holiday entitlement of 28 days. Only 10.8% of their working year!

ruff'n'smov

800 posts

34 months

[news] 
Tuesday 11th December 2012 quote quote all
the stigs dad said:
Read it and weep. If you don't like it get another job ffs!
Can he come and work at wkers.com like you.

Don't read too much into it mate, I think the extreme example is extreme and wouldn't in effect turn out that way.
What you need to do is have a word with your line Manager and get the definitive information explained.

ging84

1,947 posts

31 months

[news] 
Wednesday 12th December 2012 quote quote all
sounds like they have mixed up 2 methods of calculating holiday when it come to bank holidays
one ways is to pay everyone who would have been working that day for a full day and remove 1 day from their holiday.
the other way is to remove all the bank holidays from the total allowance and pay everyone for the bank holidays a pro rata amount regardless if they would have been working that day

if they are taking a full day off your holiday, and then only paying you 2/5ths of a day they are doing it wrong

iphonedyou

3,969 posts

42 months

[news] 
Thursday 13th December 2012 quote quote all
the stigs dad said:
Read it and weep. If you don't like it get another job ffs!
Why don't you just leave the forum? It's a contractual change to his current holiday entitlement; he has every right to question it. People like you get taken advantage of. I'd pity you for your naivety, if you weren't such an ignoramus.
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