E65 7-series. Should I run away?
Discussion
Half thinking about an E65 7 Series to replace an E39 and E46. I know very little about them at this stage.
One that I'm particularly interested in is 2003 745 with about 110k on the clock. It looks a good deal and from the brief conversation I had with the garage, the car sounds well looked after.
Before I go and see it, I'd like to arm myself with a bit of knowledge about potential pit falls and how ruinous they're likely to be? Any key jobs that I should look for on the service history?
Is the 745 a decent variant to go for? Annual mileage will be about 6-7k and I'd be okay with 25-30 mpg on a motorway run if that is likely?
One that I'm particularly interested in is 2003 745 with about 110k on the clock. It looks a good deal and from the brief conversation I had with the garage, the car sounds well looked after.
Before I go and see it, I'd like to arm myself with a bit of knowledge about potential pit falls and how ruinous they're likely to be? Any key jobs that I should look for on the service history?
Is the 745 a decent variant to go for? Annual mileage will be about 6-7k and I'd be okay with 25-30 mpg on a motorway run if that is likely?
We have had a 2006 e65 730d as a family car for the last 2 years. Its currently at 100k mileage. Spec is low compared to other 7 series but good for a normal car.
25k miles later. I can honestly say its the best family car we've ever had by a long way. No problems other than the bonnet release getting stuck - a common age related thing. Just needs oil. I've just had the gear box oil and filter changed. It was expensive but the auto box is so much better. This is a must do at around the 100k mark. Apparently the gear box is the weak link in the car.
Overall a brilliant way to get from A to B. The v8 must be epic, subject to mpg.
Anything in particular you wish to know?
Simon
25k miles later. I can honestly say its the best family car we've ever had by a long way. No problems other than the bonnet release getting stuck - a common age related thing. Just needs oil. I've just had the gear box oil and filter changed. It was expensive but the auto box is so much better. This is a must do at around the 100k mark. Apparently the gear box is the weak link in the car.
Overall a brilliant way to get from A to B. The v8 must be epic, subject to mpg.
Anything in particular you wish to know?
Simon
Thanks Simon, that's good to hear.
I've read a lot about problems with 2002 and 2003 cars but haven't actually unearthed what these problems are actually likely to be. I'm obviously aware that on-going running costs could be high in line with any car that cost this sort of amount when new but I wouldn't want to buy something that immediately needed remedial work so just looking out for common weaknesses or parts that a re particularly expensive.
I've read a lot about problems with 2002 and 2003 cars but haven't actually unearthed what these problems are actually likely to be. I'm obviously aware that on-going running costs could be high in line with any car that cost this sort of amount when new but I wouldn't want to buy something that immediately needed remedial work so just looking out for common weaknesses or parts that a re particularly expensive.
Yeah. I've seen a fair few comments about avoiding the first few years of e65, but like you, no common reasons.
All I have seen is the gearbox which is at its torque limit. Plus the oil for life, which needs changing at a 100k. I think it cost me around £500 to get changed at an independent. I did the pads and disks myself.
Regarding mpg. Youll be lucky to get 30 mpg in a petrol. Mine in mixed driving averages 32 mpg.
Its a great car. I use ours to tow my caterham. You cannot feel any indication of towing. Averaged 60mph between spa and home last summer.
I image the main thing is to make sure all the electrics work.
Simon
All I have seen is the gearbox which is at its torque limit. Plus the oil for life, which needs changing at a 100k. I think it cost me around £500 to get changed at an independent. I did the pads and disks myself.
Regarding mpg. Youll be lucky to get 30 mpg in a petrol. Mine in mixed driving averages 32 mpg.
Its a great car. I use ours to tow my caterham. You cannot feel any indication of towing. Averaged 60mph between spa and home last summer.
I image the main thing is to make sure all the electrics work.
Simon
simonreed said:
Yeah. I've seen a fair few comments about avoiding the first few years of e65, but like you, no common reasons.
All I have seen is the gearbox which is at its torque limit. Plus the oil for life, which needs changing at a 100k. I think it cost me around £500 to get changed at an independent. I did the pads and disks myself.
Regarding mpg. Youll be lucky to get 30 mpg in a petrol. Mine in mixed driving averages 32 mpg.
Its a great car. I use ours to tow my caterham. You cannot feel any indication of towing. Averaged 60mph between spa and home last summer.
I image the main thing is to make sure all the electrics work.
Simon
Cheers, do you find DIY work okay on them? Would definitely factor in a gearbox oil change. It was one of the first things I did on the E39 as well. Oil for life, my arse! All I have seen is the gearbox which is at its torque limit. Plus the oil for life, which needs changing at a 100k. I think it cost me around £500 to get changed at an independent. I did the pads and disks myself.
Regarding mpg. Youll be lucky to get 30 mpg in a petrol. Mine in mixed driving averages 32 mpg.
Its a great car. I use ours to tow my caterham. You cannot feel any indication of towing. Averaged 60mph between spa and home last summer.
I image the main thing is to make sure all the electrics work.
Simon
DIY. Me??? My limit is changing the disks and pads, plus changing the angle eyes to led. I did fit the tow bar, but the electrics was beyond me.
There are some good videos and picture instructions on the Internet.
Anything else, including oil changes, it goes to the local independent.
Simon
There are some good videos and picture instructions on the Internet.
Anything else, including oil changes, it goes to the local independent.
Simon
simonreed said:
DIY. Me??? My limit is changing the disks and pads, plus changing the angle eyes to led. I did fit the tow bar, but the electrics was beyond me.
There are some good videos and picture instructions on the Internet.
Anything else, including oil changes, it goes to the local independent.
Simon
Thanks once again Simon, I like to get my hands dirty but some cars can be a real pain to work on. My suspicion is that the E65 will fall into that category particularly anything relating to the electrics. There are some good videos and picture instructions on the Internet.
Anything else, including oil changes, it goes to the local independent.
Simon
You will need a filter, a gasket and some fluid - it is synthetic and expensive but don't be tempted to scrimp.
With any luck you can source the fluid from a gearbox specialist far cheaper than BMW. The tricky part is refilling the box as it has to be topped up to level with the engine running, meaning you need a pump or a Heath Robinson funnel rig.
I use a 10 litre garden sprayer which works really well.
With any luck you can source the fluid from a gearbox specialist far cheaper than BMW. The tricky part is refilling the box as it has to be topped up to level with the engine running, meaning you need a pump or a Heath Robinson funnel rig.
I use a 10 litre garden sprayer which works really well.
Animal said:
Re fuel economy: I've got a 2004 E60 545i and I average 22-23mpg from a tank, which is predominantly short journeys around town. Long runs on a motorway easily get me 28mpg at a fast cruise. My best so far is 100 miles back from Birmingham at a lazy 60-65mph which saw 37mpg.
That's better than I'd expect. Actually pretty similar to my six cylinder BM's. Both of those average about 28 overall. I'd be happy with 25 for a V8 as long as other costs were under control. Got one to view at the weekend. Not sure whether I'll go for it or not yet, it still seems like a potential money pit but I'm not sure why. Gad-Westy said:
Thanks Simon, that's good to hear.
I've read a lot about problems with 2002 and 2003 cars but haven't actually unearthed what these problems are actually likely to be. I'm obviously aware that on-going running costs could be high in line with any car that cost this sort of amount when new but I wouldn't want to buy something that immediately needed remedial work so just looking out for common weaknesses or parts that a re particularly expensive.
In 2003 I ran a 2002 745. Lovely car when it worked. It broke down maybe 20 times and when it was finally rejected it had 26 pages worth of warranty work. Faults were:I've read a lot about problems with 2002 and 2003 cars but haven't actually unearthed what these problems are actually likely to be. I'm obviously aware that on-going running costs could be high in line with any car that cost this sort of amount when new but I wouldn't want to buy something that immediately needed remedial work so just looking out for common weaknesses or parts that a re particularly expensive.
Suspension collapsed (mid corner)
Key stuck in ignition, wouldn't release
Key release, engine remained running
Idrive failed twice
Sat nav failed 3 times
etc
Each time the fix was 'replace mother board' at a retail price of £2k.
burwoodman said:
In 2003 I ran a 2002 745. Lovely car when it worked. It broke down maybe 20 times and when it was finally rejected it had 26 pages worth of warranty work. Faults were:
Suspension collapsed (mid corner)
Key stuck in ignition, wouldn't release
Key release, engine remained running
Idrive failed twice
Sat nav failed 3 times
etc
Each time the fix was 'replace mother board' at a retail price of £2k.
Sounds like a nightmare! A third party warranty is available at approx £1000 per year but I have no idea if they are actually worth having. Suspension collapsed (mid corner)
Key stuck in ignition, wouldn't release
Key release, engine remained running
Idrive failed twice
Sat nav failed 3 times
etc
Each time the fix was 'replace mother board' at a retail price of £2k.
Gad-Westy said:
Sounds like a nightmare! A third party warranty is available at approx £1000 per year but I have no idea if they are actually worth having.
The annoying part was that I purchased the car when it was 14 months old (BMW AUC). When I had the problems, BMW insisted they just keep fixing it. I smelt a rat and phoned the previous owner who proceeded to tell me that his arrangement with BMW is confidential. Eventually he admitted that he rejected the car and got a new 7. When I tabled this revelation BMW agreed to exchange the car. It was put back in the network. It should have been crushed. I pity the subsequent owner. This was one of those situations where a warranty doesn't help when the car is forever breaking down. Now, I always check the warranty work if I buy used.burwoodman said:
Gad-Westy said:
Sounds like a nightmare! A third party warranty is available at approx £1000 per year but I have no idea if they are actually worth having.
The annoying part was that I purchased the car when it was 14 months old (BMW AUC). When I had the problems, BMW insisted they just keep fixing it. I smelt a rat and phoned the previous owner who proceeded to tell me that his arrangement with BMW is confidential. Eventually he admitted that he rejected the car and got a new 7. When I tabled this revelation BMW agreed to exchange the car. It was put back in the network. It should have been crushed. I pity the subsequent owner. This was one of those situations where a warranty doesn't help when the car is forever breaking down. Now, I always check the warranty work if I buy used.Sounds like that 745 was one of those bad cars that crop up every now and then. Generally speaking the E65 745/750 is a very reliable car if maintained correctly. The use of fibre optics reduced a lot of electrical glitches, and although there were teething troubles on some models intially these have all been sorted by now.
If you get a pre-facelift (ie 745) go for an SE or Sport as they had Direct Drive as standard, which is a must in my opinion - it stiffens the ARBs as the car goes round corners and works brilliantly. The later facelifted model (ie 750) needs to be a Sport to have Direct Drive as standard.
The 745/750 will return over 30mpg on a run, and are superb all round generally. Loads of options were available, comfort seats and xenons are most desirable, then folding mirrors, soft close doors, power boot, Logic 7 sound, and heated/vented seats, heated steering wheel the list goes on and on....
The laser in the sat nav's tend to go in these, and BMW will charge you £7k to replace the unit (yes, you read that right) but you can buy a new laser for £40 and fit yourself if you are even half-way adept. I replaced mine.
They are dropping below five grand now for pre facelifts and 750s are down to around 7 grand too, which is ridiculous value in my book. Check history. The big V8 has no big problems to it, and if maintained will happily go over 200k miles.
I loved my E65 and would have another in a flash if I started doing long journey's again.
regards
R
If you get a pre-facelift (ie 745) go for an SE or Sport as they had Direct Drive as standard, which is a must in my opinion - it stiffens the ARBs as the car goes round corners and works brilliantly. The later facelifted model (ie 750) needs to be a Sport to have Direct Drive as standard.
The 745/750 will return over 30mpg on a run, and are superb all round generally. Loads of options were available, comfort seats and xenons are most desirable, then folding mirrors, soft close doors, power boot, Logic 7 sound, and heated/vented seats, heated steering wheel the list goes on and on....
The laser in the sat nav's tend to go in these, and BMW will charge you £7k to replace the unit (yes, you read that right) but you can buy a new laser for £40 and fit yourself if you are even half-way adept. I replaced mine.
They are dropping below five grand now for pre facelifts and 750s are down to around 7 grand too, which is ridiculous value in my book. Check history. The big V8 has no big problems to it, and if maintained will happily go over 200k miles.
I loved my E65 and would have another in a flash if I started doing long journey's again.
regards
R
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