Is ABS a good or bad thing if it gets really wintry?
Discussion
Mine has gone (probably just a wheel sensor) and part of me says to get it sorted quick as things are supposedly getting wintry again in a week or so. But then my dad once told me he rolled into a car blocking his way on a hill because the abs kept releasing the brakes so he couldn't actually stop the car (not sure if he thought about using the handbrake, he just gently and slowly rolled into it and it may be that he would have skidded into it even if the abs wasn't there).
I know it is a very, very good thing generally when travelling about at speed but here I am talking about if you are driving about on say an inch of compacted snow at very low (walking) speeds on winter tyres. I can always just drive carefully and cadence brake if required until I get the pennies properly sorted.
I know it is a very, very good thing generally when travelling about at speed but here I am talking about if you are driving about on say an inch of compacted snow at very low (walking) speeds on winter tyres. I can always just drive carefully and cadence brake if required until I get the pennies properly sorted.
ABS is generally a good thing. Although you should be easily able to drive without it, people did for many years without dying at every opportunity
On the VX220 the ABS is pretty bad, so bad in fact that I fitted a switch to disable it (common mod) as when pulling up to a roundabout whilst braking you could easily trigger the ABS causing you to over-run you designated 'stop area'..... turning it off completely actually felt safer!
On the VX220 the ABS is pretty bad, so bad in fact that I fitted a switch to disable it (common mod) as when pulling up to a roundabout whilst braking you could easily trigger the ABS causing you to over-run you designated 'stop area'..... turning it off completely actually felt safer!
On the right kind of snow, locking the wheels can reduce your stopping distances. You'll still have no vehicle control though, which abs can sometimes help with.
I'd get it fixed for insurance reasons more than anything. I'm not speaking from any factual point of view, but I wonder how insurance / police would view an accident if you were knowingly driving with a faulty ABS sensor.
I'd get it fixed for insurance reasons more than anything. I'm not speaking from any factual point of view, but I wonder how insurance / police would view an accident if you were knowingly driving with a faulty ABS sensor.
You have faulty brakes, why would you not get them fixed?
Yes, we all used to manage without, but we all used to manage without seatbelts too. The difference is, if you can't stop as fast you're potentially affecting someone else too.
Yes there are those that say ABS doesn't work as well on ice as it "keeps applying and releasing the brakes", well the reason it does that is because it can't find any grip, so as soon as the wheel locks the ABS releases and re-applies braking force. However if there's no grip, then there's no grip, ABS or no ABS, as these people learned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY
The only time you could potentially stop faster without ABS is in soft snow or on gravel, where the theory is that the wedge built up in front of a locked skidding wheel will slow the car faster. I'm not completely convinced, but since we have no snow it's a moot point anyway.
Oh, and in the meantime, jumping out of a sliding car isn't the best way to handle such a situation!
Yes, we all used to manage without, but we all used to manage without seatbelts too. The difference is, if you can't stop as fast you're potentially affecting someone else too.
Yes there are those that say ABS doesn't work as well on ice as it "keeps applying and releasing the brakes", well the reason it does that is because it can't find any grip, so as soon as the wheel locks the ABS releases and re-applies braking force. However if there's no grip, then there's no grip, ABS or no ABS, as these people learned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY
The only time you could potentially stop faster without ABS is in soft snow or on gravel, where the theory is that the wedge built up in front of a locked skidding wheel will slow the car faster. I'm not completely convinced, but since we have no snow it's a moot point anyway.
Oh, and in the meantime, jumping out of a sliding car isn't the best way to handle such a situation!
I drive on snow all the time in winter and generally think of ABS as a failure on my part if it deploys. That being said, it can be helpful in snow if you are not paying enough attention. Current cars are massively better than when it was first e deployed and would cut in unnecessarily.
Ari said:
You have faulty brakes, why would you not get them fixed?
Yes, we all used to manage without, but we all used to manage without seatbelts too. The difference is, if you can't stop as fast you're potentially affecting someone else too.
Yes there are those that say ABS doesn't work as well on ice as it "keeps applying and releasing the brakes", well the reason it does that is because it can't find any grip, so as soon as the wheel locks the ABS releases and re-applies braking force. However if there's no grip, then there's no grip, ABS or no ABS, as these people learned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY
The only time you could potentially stop faster without ABS is in soft snow or on gravel, where the theory is that the wedge built up in front of a locked skidding wheel will slow the car faster. I'm not completely convinced, but since we have no snow it's a moot point anyway.
Oh, and in the meantime, jumping out of a sliding car isn't the best way to handle such a situation!
This.Yes, we all used to manage without, but we all used to manage without seatbelts too. The difference is, if you can't stop as fast you're potentially affecting someone else too.
Yes there are those that say ABS doesn't work as well on ice as it "keeps applying and releasing the brakes", well the reason it does that is because it can't find any grip, so as soon as the wheel locks the ABS releases and re-applies braking force. However if there's no grip, then there's no grip, ABS or no ABS, as these people learned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPRmOUxRMY
The only time you could potentially stop faster without ABS is in soft snow or on gravel, where the theory is that the wedge built up in front of a locked skidding wheel will slow the car faster. I'm not completely convinced, but since we have no snow it's a moot point anyway.
Oh, and in the meantime, jumping out of a sliding car isn't the best way to handle such a situation!
ABS is there to let you keep control of the steering wheel - which is handy when brake instinctively and still have to swerve around an obstacle. Best thing to do is a three-hour driver training that concentrates on braking and swerving. Once you've experienced the vehicle's behaviour, you'll be prepared for emergency maneuverings.
I have a faulty overall braking system, not faulty brakes. If it is a case of a sensor only job, fine, but if it is a case of ECU issues, broken cables that need investigating etc and a decent bill, I can't do that yet. I will get it fixed because I do think overall ABS is a very good thing, but I'm wondering if icy/snowy weather would make it essential to get it done or actually less so. On balance I think the sooner the better irrespective of the weather.
The ESP is faulty too by definition now, but bearing in mind a lot of people turn that off to enjoy driving as they intend, I'm not so phased by that, and I don't think any time it has cut in it has helped me avoid a situation. I accept that whatever gets done to sort the ABS will sort the ESP out too of course!
The ESP is faulty too by definition now, but bearing in mind a lot of people turn that off to enjoy driving as they intend, I'm not so phased by that, and I don't think any time it has cut in it has helped me avoid a situation. I accept that whatever gets done to sort the ABS will sort the ESP out too of course!
zebedee said:
I have a faulty overall braking system, not faulty brakes. If it is a case of a sensor only job, fine, but if it is a case of ECU issues, broken cables that need investigating etc and a decent bill, I can't do that yet. I will get it fixed because I do think overall ABS is a very good thing, but I'm wondering if icy/snowy weather would make it essential to get it done or actually less so. On balance I think the sooner the better irrespective of the weather.
The ESP is faulty too by definition now, but bearing in mind a lot of people turn that off to enjoy driving as they intend, I'm not so phased by that, and I don't think any time it has cut in it has helped me avoid a situation. I accept that whatever gets done to sort the ABS will sort the ESP out too of course!
What car is it, from the vag group of cars?The ESP is faulty too by definition now, but bearing in mind a lot of people turn that off to enjoy driving as they intend, I'm not so phased by that, and I don't think any time it has cut in it has helped me avoid a situation. I accept that whatever gets done to sort the ABS will sort the ESP out too of course!
I am told it's better on modern cars but on my new (in 2000) 406 it simply wouldn't apply the brakes as I was coming to the end of my drive doing perhaps 10mph on a fresh sprinkling of snow that was less than 1cm deep - no ice, not an issue in a non ABS car.
I rolled out into the road - luckily nothing was coming.
It did similar on wet leaves - ZERO braking.
After that I pulled the fuse - I've driven cars without ABS for 20+yrs and I've not hit anything yet.
I rolled out into the road - luckily nothing was coming.
It did similar on wet leaves - ZERO braking.
After that I pulled the fuse - I've driven cars without ABS for 20+yrs and I've not hit anything yet.
currybum said:
V8RX7 said:
I am told it's better on modern cars but on my new (in 2000) 406 it simply wouldn't apply the brakes as I was coming to the end of my drive doing perhaps 10mph on a fresh sprinkling of snow that was less than 1cm deep - no ice, not an issue in a non ABS car.
I rolled out into the road - luckily nothing was coming.
It did similar on wet leaves - ZERO braking.
You still have to apply the brakes...ABS doesn't actually brake for you, if you had no grip with ABS you wouldn't have had grip without it.I rolled out into the road - luckily nothing was coming.
It did similar on wet leaves - ZERO braking.
ks. I'd been coming out of that drive in all weather for 10yrs and have NEVER failed to stop from 10mph before or since - tyres quickly push through the surface snow / leaves and find the grippy tarmac.ABS is good apart from on snow, gravel, ice or any other surface where digging in and building up a mound of material in front of the wheel aids stopping. I hate ABS and traction control in the snow and ice but I am glad for it in wet conditions on tarmac, especially at motorway speeds.
I think cars being fitted with ABS is a good thing on the whole but there should always be a switch to disable it (sadly this is rarely the case).
I think cars being fitted with ABS is a good thing on the whole but there should always be a switch to disable it (sadly this is rarely the case).
zebedee said:
Mine has gone (probably just a wheel sensor) and part of me says to get it sorted quick as things are supposedly getting wintry again in a week or so. But then my dad once told me he rolled into a car blocking his way on a hill because the abs kept releasing the brakes so he couldn't actually stop the car (not sure if he thought about using the handbrake, he just gently and slowly rolled into it and it may be that he would have skidded into it even if the abs wasn't there).
I know it is a very, very good thing generally when travelling about at speed but here I am talking about if you are driving about on say an inch of compacted snow at very low (walking) speeds on winter tyres. I can always just drive carefully and cadence brake if required until I get the pennies properly sorted.
ABS is pretty crap if you're a good driver and enjoy spirited driving and hard braking, but it's pretty good for the other 99.9% of drivers.I know it is a very, very good thing generally when travelling about at speed but here I am talking about if you are driving about on say an inch of compacted snow at very low (walking) speeds on winter tyres. I can always just drive carefully and cadence brake if required until I get the pennies properly sorted.
Consequences of having a crash with faulty ABS or disabling your ABS are far worse however.
Get it fixed ASAP and drive carefully in the snow.
Having cut my snow driving teeth as an enthusiastic 17-18 year old in a Fiat Uno, I'm fairly confident in slippery conditions, and learned how to handle a car without ABS.
However, the additional control ABS gives you is invaluable, hitting an icy puddle as you're braking means the car still retains an element of stability (with ABS), whereas without it, you're relying on your own abilities to allow you to react in time. ABS doesn't get tired, fiddle with the radio, eat a sandwich, or any of the other things that may take your mind off the road momentarily.
It's the ability to be able to go down a slippery hill without having the wheels lock and the car then having no steering control for the small moment in time that you're reacting and releasing the brakes (ABS does it quicker, 9 times out of 10, if anything, ABS beats driver reactions every time).
At very low speed (less than 3-4 mph) ABS doesn't activate anyway (or at least, it never used to, maybe it does on modern cars).
However, the additional control ABS gives you is invaluable, hitting an icy puddle as you're braking means the car still retains an element of stability (with ABS), whereas without it, you're relying on your own abilities to allow you to react in time. ABS doesn't get tired, fiddle with the radio, eat a sandwich, or any of the other things that may take your mind off the road momentarily.
It's the ability to be able to go down a slippery hill without having the wheels lock and the car then having no steering control for the small moment in time that you're reacting and releasing the brakes (ABS does it quicker, 9 times out of 10, if anything, ABS beats driver reactions every time).
At very low speed (less than 3-4 mph) ABS doesn't activate anyway (or at least, it never used to, maybe it does on modern cars).
zebedee said:
The ESP is faulty too by definition now, but bearing in mind a lot of people turn that off to enjoy driving as they intend, I'm not so phased by that, and I don't think any time it has cut in it has helped me avoid a situation. I accept that whatever gets done to sort the ABS will sort the ESP out too of course!
Slightly OT, is it a VAG car? If so it's likely to be the ABS control unit that's failed. Pricey one that I'm afraid!ikarl said:
ABS is generally a good thing. Although you should be easily able to drive without it, people did for many years without dying at every opportunity
On the VX220 the ABS is pretty bad, so bad in fact that I fitted a switch to disable it (common mod) as when pulling up to a roundabout whilst braking you could easily trigger the ABS causing you to over-run you designated 'stop area'..... turning it off completely actually felt safer!
The better bet is phone a Lotus dealer and buy an Elise / Exige ABS ECU, it turns it 4 channel instead of 2 channel and works really well.On the VX220 the ABS is pretty bad, so bad in fact that I fitted a switch to disable it (common mod) as when pulling up to a roundabout whilst braking you could easily trigger the ABS causing you to over-run you designated 'stop area'..... turning it off completely actually felt safer!
currybum said:
V8RX7 said:
currybum said:
V8RX7 said:
it simply wouldn't apply the brakes.....
You still have to apply the brakes...ABS doesn't actually brake for you, if you had no grip with ABS you wouldn't have had grip without it.ks. I'd been coming out of that drive in all weather for 10yrs and have NEVER failed to stop from 10mph before or since - tyres quickly push through the surface snow / leaves and find the grippy tarmac.t !I was pushing my foot through the floor.
I also tried pumping the pedal - ZERO braking was applied - you can stick these alleged aids where the sun doesn't shine.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff