Porsche 911 Carerra 4S (997) Warranty Problem (Bore Scoring)
Discussion
Firstly I would like to say thanks for welcoming me to the forum and I am delighted to become a member of PistonHeads.
I can see a great deal of detail about Porsche on here and I hope that I can gain some valuable advice about a recent issue I have encountered with my Car and to ask those of you with similar problem to assist me if you can.
I purchased a Porsche 911 (997 Carerra 4S) 2005 in May 2012 and subsequently placed an extended Warranty with a well known Warranty company for approx £1000. The company sent an inspector out to view my Car to complete an inspection shortly after I applied to them to check it over to verify condition etc. This was completed without issue and the car marked as "satisfactory" and my Warranty was then set in place.
Approx 12 weeks later the Car inherited a ticking noise which was coming from the Engine which was alarming and I immediately contacted my local Porsche specialist to have the Car looked at to see what was wrong. He diagnosed the ticking noise as coming from the off side bank of the engine, specifically from the NO. 6 cylinder. The engine was subsequently dismantled and scoring type marks were found at number 6 cylinder bore. Similar marks were also found at cylinders 5 and 4. An engine overhaul was recommended to rectify the damage.
I immediately contacted the warranty company to arrange for this to be attended to by placing a claim on my policy to pay for the repairs (I was quoted £9000!!!)
My warranty company has refused to consider the claim as they say that the fault was present at policy inception and does not cover pre-existing faults. This is after they gave my Car a clean bill of health 12 weeks previously by their own inspector.
My question to the forum is have any of you had similar issues with your Porsche 997's etc and has the warranty company that you have used accepted such a claim for "bore scoring" and honoured their policy accordingly.
Any feedback regarding this would be greatly appreciated and I would like to thank you in advance for taking time to read this.
I can see a great deal of detail about Porsche on here and I hope that I can gain some valuable advice about a recent issue I have encountered with my Car and to ask those of you with similar problem to assist me if you can.
I purchased a Porsche 911 (997 Carerra 4S) 2005 in May 2012 and subsequently placed an extended Warranty with a well known Warranty company for approx £1000. The company sent an inspector out to view my Car to complete an inspection shortly after I applied to them to check it over to verify condition etc. This was completed without issue and the car marked as "satisfactory" and my Warranty was then set in place.
Approx 12 weeks later the Car inherited a ticking noise which was coming from the Engine which was alarming and I immediately contacted my local Porsche specialist to have the Car looked at to see what was wrong. He diagnosed the ticking noise as coming from the off side bank of the engine, specifically from the NO. 6 cylinder. The engine was subsequently dismantled and scoring type marks were found at number 6 cylinder bore. Similar marks were also found at cylinders 5 and 4. An engine overhaul was recommended to rectify the damage.
I immediately contacted the warranty company to arrange for this to be attended to by placing a claim on my policy to pay for the repairs (I was quoted £9000!!!)
My warranty company has refused to consider the claim as they say that the fault was present at policy inception and does not cover pre-existing faults. This is after they gave my Car a clean bill of health 12 weeks previously by their own inspector.
My question to the forum is have any of you had similar issues with your Porsche 997's etc and has the warranty company that you have used accepted such a claim for "bore scoring" and honoured their policy accordingly.
Any feedback regarding this would be greatly appreciated and I would like to thank you in advance for taking time to read this.
First off, welcome! Sorry your first post isn't a happier one though.
Did they check the car with the engine running? Can Porsche confirm when the bore-scoring occurred? I would say those two questions are key to a successful resolution here.
Do you have any non-OEM bits on the car? Just wondering why you went for a non-Porsche warranty is all.
Did they check the car with the engine running? Can Porsche confirm when the bore-scoring occurred? I would say those two questions are key to a successful resolution here.
Do you have any non-OEM bits on the car? Just wondering why you went for a non-Porsche warranty is all.
Check out Honest John's site - there is a heap of advice about things like this. The general gist is that any fault occurring in the first six months is deemed to have been present at the time of sale. So back to the selling dealer, assuming they're in the motor trade. If it was a private sale then I don't think you have any recourse against the seller.
S
S
Hi there
When you say ticking noise, was this audible from outside the car with engine compartment closed, so quite loud?
Just all these engines sound like a bunch of bricks in a tumble dryer if you stick your head in the engine bay with the engine at idle and at such close proximity they all have ticking noises.
So when you say ticking noise was it audible from outside the car at a distance over the exhaust noise?
I thought bore scoring caused them to smoke and consume a lot of oil, first I've heard it being described as ticking noise.
As to your case:-
1. Take back to selling dealer, its in the 3 month period on an expensive car, by law they are responsible to repair this or refund you.
2. The warranty company gave the car a clean bill of health, take it you have a written report confirming this? If so the warranty company is by law required to carry out repairs as they gave the car a clean bill of health and were more than happy to take your £1000 for the warranty from you.
When you say ticking noise, was this audible from outside the car with engine compartment closed, so quite loud?
Just all these engines sound like a bunch of bricks in a tumble dryer if you stick your head in the engine bay with the engine at idle and at such close proximity they all have ticking noises.
So when you say ticking noise was it audible from outside the car at a distance over the exhaust noise?
I thought bore scoring caused them to smoke and consume a lot of oil, first I've heard it being described as ticking noise.
As to your case:-
1. Take back to selling dealer, its in the 3 month period on an expensive car, by law they are responsible to repair this or refund you.
2. The warranty company gave the car a clean bill of health, take it you have a written report confirming this? If so the warranty company is by law required to carry out repairs as they gave the car a clean bill of health and were more than happy to take your £1000 for the warranty from you.
Edited by Gibbo205 on Tuesday 15th January 10:42
"My warranty company has refused to consider the claim as they say that the fault was present at policy inception and does not cover pre-existing faults. This is after they gave my Car a clean bill of health 12 weeks previously by their own inspector."
How do the warranty company know when the fault happened? 9K they are guessing the same as everyone.
they will not want to blow 9K on a claim if you've only had it on cover for 3 months. Easier to say no now and pay out later.
Trading standards will help for free and can make companies jump more than a letter from a solicitor and they are free!
Good luck
How do the warranty company know when the fault happened? 9K they are guessing the same as everyone.
they will not want to blow 9K on a claim if you've only had it on cover for 3 months. Easier to say no now and pay out later.
Trading standards will help for free and can make companies jump more than a letter from a solicitor and they are free!
Good luck
Edited by reedman on Tuesday 15th January 21:39
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there
When you say ticking noise, was this audible from outside the car with engine compartment closed, so quite loud?
Just all these engines sound like a bunch of bricks in a tumble dryer if you stick your head in the engine bay with the engine at idle and at such close proximity they all have ticking noises.
So when you say ticking noise was it audible from outside the car at a distance over the exhaust noise?
I thought bore scoring caused them to smoke and consume a lot of oil, first I've heard it being described as ticking noise.
As to your case:-
1. Take back to selling dealer, its in the 3 month period on an expensive car, by law they are responsible to repair this or refund you.
2. The warranty company gave the car a clean bill of health, take it you have a written report confirming this? If so the warranty company is by law required to carry out repairs as they gave the car a clean bill of health and were more than happy to take your £1000 for the warranty from you.
Hi,When you say ticking noise, was this audible from outside the car with engine compartment closed, so quite loud?
Just all these engines sound like a bunch of bricks in a tumble dryer if you stick your head in the engine bay with the engine at idle and at such close proximity they all have ticking noises.
So when you say ticking noise was it audible from outside the car at a distance over the exhaust noise?
I thought bore scoring caused them to smoke and consume a lot of oil, first I've heard it being described as ticking noise.
As to your case:-
1. Take back to selling dealer, its in the 3 month period on an expensive car, by law they are responsible to repair this or refund you.
2. The warranty company gave the car a clean bill of health, take it you have a written report confirming this? If so the warranty company is by law required to carry out repairs as they gave the car a clean bill of health and were more than happy to take your £1000 for the warranty from you.
Edited by Gibbo205 on Tuesday 15th January 10:42
Thanks for the reply. I paid for a specialist company to perform a full inspection of the vehicle to assist me with this and they agreed that the problem lies with heavy score of the Bore which in turn is causing excess smoke and the ticking noise I mentioned. He looked at the warranty company report which said that no smoke was noted as present and the engine was satisfactory with no fault noted.
I am hoping that this will help me in my case against the warranty company as they were only too happy to take my £1000 for premium for what was described as one of the best after market warranties in the UK.
stevod said:
Check out Honest John's site - there is a heap of advice about things like this. The general gist is that any fault occurring in the first six months is deemed to have been present at the time of sale. So back to the selling dealer, assuming they're in the motor trade. If it was a private sale then I don't think you have any recourse against the seller.
S
Thanks for the reply and yes I agree that the time scale would suggest that I should have recourse against the warranty people.S
reedman said:
"My warranty company has refused to consider the claim as they say that the fault was present at policy inception and does not cover pre-existing faults. This is after they gave my Car a clean bill of health 12 weeks previously by their own inspector."
How do the warranty company know when the fault happened? 9K they are guessing the same as everyone.
they will not want to blow 9K on a claim if you've only had it on cover for 3 months. Easier to say no now and pay out later.
Trading standards will help for free and can make companies jump more than a letter from a solicitor and they are free!
Good luck
Clive
Hi Clive,How do the warranty company know when the fault happened? 9K they are guessing the same as everyone.
they will not want to blow 9K on a claim if you've only had it on cover for 3 months. Easier to say no now and pay out later.
Trading standards will help for free and can make companies jump more than a letter from a solicitor and they are free!
Good luck
Clive
Many thanks for the advice and I will be certainly pursuing all avenue to help get this covered.
Ekona said:
First off, welcome! Sorry your first post isn't a happier one though.
Did they check the car with the engine running? Can Porsche confirm when the bore-scoring occurred? I would say those two questions are key to a successful resolution here.
Do you have any non-OEM bits on the car? Just wondering why you went for a non-Porsche warranty is all.
Hi and thanks for the first reply :-)Did they check the car with the engine running? Can Porsche confirm when the bore-scoring occurred? I would say those two questions are key to a successful resolution here.
Do you have any non-OEM bits on the car? Just wondering why you went for a non-Porsche warranty is all.
The bore scoring was noted about 12 weeks after my policy inception which was in May 2012 so august us when it all went wrong.
This car is totally original with no OEM parts used. (Full Porsche History)
I went for what I thought was one of the best Warranties available outside of Porsche UK. The policy covered the full list price of the car and had no limit to claims up to this price. I guess I fell for the marketing!! :-(
When I purchased my 996 C4S I looked into getting a warranty with Warranty Direct (i'm guessing this is who you have used?).
I had long discussions with the sales guy about cylinder scoring and whether it was covered. He said it was so I asked for confirmation in wriitng to which I received:
"As discussed, I have confirmed with our claims department that if there is a sudden mechanical failure relating to a scored cylinder bore, then this is covered by the warranty.
We give the vehicle a pre-warranty inspection to make sure there are no current faults, then we know any faults arising thereafter are not pre-existing."
I replied that cylinder socring won't ever be 'sudden mechanical failure' - the engine will just start ticking/smoking,etc until it needs a rebuild. He then agreed that they wouldn't actually pay a claim as a result
I didn't bother with them after that.
Good luck OP.
I had long discussions with the sales guy about cylinder scoring and whether it was covered. He said it was so I asked for confirmation in wriitng to which I received:
"As discussed, I have confirmed with our claims department that if there is a sudden mechanical failure relating to a scored cylinder bore, then this is covered by the warranty.
We give the vehicle a pre-warranty inspection to make sure there are no current faults, then we know any faults arising thereafter are not pre-existing."
I replied that cylinder socring won't ever be 'sudden mechanical failure' - the engine will just start ticking/smoking,etc until it needs a rebuild. He then agreed that they wouldn't actually pay a claim as a result
I didn't bother with them after that.Good luck OP.
jody04c said:
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I paid for a specialist company to perform a full inspection of the vehicle to assist me with this and they agreed that the problem lies with heavy score of the Bore which in turn is causing excess smoke and the ticking noise I mentioned. He looked at the warranty company report which said that no smoke was noted as present and the engine was satisfactory with no fault noted.
I am hoping that this will help me in my case against the warranty company as they were only too happy to take my £1000 for premium for what was described as one of the best after market warranties in the UK.
Out of curiosity how loud is this ticking?Thanks for the reply. I paid for a specialist company to perform a full inspection of the vehicle to assist me with this and they agreed that the problem lies with heavy score of the Bore which in turn is causing excess smoke and the ticking noise I mentioned. He looked at the warranty company report which said that no smoke was noted as present and the engine was satisfactory with no fault noted.
I am hoping that this will help me in my case against the warranty company as they were only too happy to take my £1000 for premium for what was described as one of the best after market warranties in the UK.
Hi, very sorry to hear about this.
I had exactly the same with an 09 plate gen2 Cayman, and the reason there was no smoke upon their inspection will probably be because with scored cylinder walls the smoke is usually only present from warm, not cold.
In my case the car was out of Porsche warranty by a few weeks and I had to get a borescope camera into the engine block to photo the walls (all 6 scored) and the dealer eventually refunded. I subsequently found out Porsche replaced the engine for him.
I would be pushing back hard on the warranty company and try and get a second opinion, maybe get your own independent borescope test and report done and get their view on where you might stand, I'd also flag this with Porsche directly to see what they say. If they accepted your business, they have an obligation to pay out in my opinion.
I had exactly the same with an 09 plate gen2 Cayman, and the reason there was no smoke upon their inspection will probably be because with scored cylinder walls the smoke is usually only present from warm, not cold.
In my case the car was out of Porsche warranty by a few weeks and I had to get a borescope camera into the engine block to photo the walls (all 6 scored) and the dealer eventually refunded. I subsequently found out Porsche replaced the engine for him.
I would be pushing back hard on the warranty company and try and get a second opinion, maybe get your own independent borescope test and report done and get their view on where you might stand, I'd also flag this with Porsche directly to see what they say. If they accepted your business, they have an obligation to pay out in my opinion.
OP I feel your pain and can't add to the advice given above.
I would however urge caution to anyone thinking of using the famous WD. You haven't named the warranty company but they pulled a similar stunt on me.
I would rather burn the money than give it to those thieves, so be warned prospective warranty buyers...either go with the manufacturer's or keep money in a bank account. Independant warranty companies in general try to do a 'Houdini' and get out of anything.
I would however urge caution to anyone thinking of using the famous WD. You haven't named the warranty company but they pulled a similar stunt on me.
I would rather burn the money than give it to those thieves, so be warned prospective warranty buyers...either go with the manufacturer's or keep money in a bank account. Independant warranty companies in general try to do a 'Houdini' and get out of anything.
Very sorry to hear. This is something thats in the back of my mind about my Cayman S. I have an AA parts and labour warrenty on mine that covers up to £5000 per claim but i know it only covers a breakdown repair and not stuff like bore scoring. Out of interest how much is an official OPC warrenty?
chrissmith2097 said:
Very sorry to hear. This is something thats in the back of my mind about my Cayman S. I have an AA parts and labour warrenty on mine that covers up to £5000 per claim but i know it only covers a breakdown repair and not stuff like bore scoring. Out of interest how much is an official OPC warrenty?
Paid circa £2200 for two year OPC last September on 997.1FesterNath said:
Excuse my perhaps daft question. Can the OPC warranty be bought for a privately bought car? I seem to remember that this was possible, but quite a few years ago.
Yep, you need to pass the 111 point inpection and then let the OPC fix everything they find at your cost.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff