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'You bend it, you mend it' - Piper sues Hales

'You bend it, you mend it' - Piper sues Hales

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Podie

Original Poster:

43,282 posts

180 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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Seems David Piper is suing Mark Hales for blowing the engine on his 917...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9808987/Y...

... is there more to this than meets the eye?

hornetrider

57,841 posts

110 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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I would guess only one person knows what really happened - the guy behind the wheel.

HustleRussell

9,418 posts

65 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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Surely Mr. Hales can simply pay a comparatively small fee to have the condition of the gearbox assessed, proving that it was the cause of the over-revv? (assuming it was, but in actual fact probably wasn't)

SuperchargedVR6

1,939 posts

125 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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How did they know it revved to 8200rpm? Does a car that old have an ECM?

HAB

3,627 posts

132 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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SuperchargedVR6 said:
How did they know it revved to 8200rpm? Does a car that old have an ECM?
917 rev counter will have a tell-tale needle:


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MartG

6,787 posts

109 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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SuperchargedVR6 said:
How did they know it revved to 8200rpm? Does a car that old have an ECM?
Tell-tale needle on the tacho probably

Podie

Original Poster:

43,282 posts

180 months

Friday 18th January 2013
quotequote all
MartG said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
How did they know it revved to 8200rpm? Does a car that old have an ECM?
Tell-tale needle on the tacho probably
If an engine blows, does can it over-rev as it lets go? (I have no idea)

HustleRussell

9,418 posts

65 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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Podie said:
If an engine blows, does can it over-rev as it lets go? (I have no idea)
Not without an increase in throttle or a clumsy downshift over-speeding the engine through the drivetrain. A gearbox issue, however (missed gear, jumped out of gear etc) would suddenly unload the engine and it would rapidly speed up even if the throttle position remained constant.

Ozzie Osmond

18,911 posts

151 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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What a pair of clowns! Spending money on lawyers will only increase the cost dramatically. It's a classic case that they should pay half each just to get rid of the thing. But I guess no-one's keen to shell out £20k for a short day out.

However, the real question is whether Piper can prove a full "you bend it, you mend it" agreement and that the £2,000 deposit wasn't the maximum recoverable.

slinky

15,704 posts

154 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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HustleRussell said:
Podie said:
If an engine blows, does can it over-rev as it lets go? (I have no idea)
Not without an increase in throttle or a clumsy downshift over-speeding the engine through the drivetrain. A gearbox issue, however (missed gear, jumped out of gear etc) would suddenly unload the engine and it would rapidly speed up even if the throttle position remained constant.
yes

We've had a clutch pack failure in a lenco lead to a massive over rev as the loaded engine is the free to spin.

Imagine working hard to undo a bolt with a spanner, then it suddenly lets go.. That energy has to go somewhere!

The Crack Fox

11,172 posts

97 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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"You bend it, you mend it" - seems perfectly fair to me, it's a famously expensive racing car, if Hales had any concerns about not being able to afford it going 'pop' then perhaps he shouldn't have driven it.

mini1380cc

1,818 posts

76 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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HAB said:
917 rev counter will have a tell-tale needle:

Whenever I see the tell tale needle i think of Days of Thunder.

mrmr96

13,736 posts

109 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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You'd think that the journalist would have insurance to cover this kind of thing?

slinky

15,704 posts

154 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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mrmr96 said:
You'd think that the journalist would have insurance to cover this kind of thing?
Accident damage, yes.. Mechanical failure, unlikely..

Ozzie Osmond

18,911 posts

151 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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mrmr96 said:
You'd think that the journalist would have insurance to cover this kind of thing?
I imagine insurance would cover a crash but not mechanical failure.

Tankslider

826 posts

128 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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There is more to this. He wasn't driving it for giggles, and he is about as well qualified to drive something like that as a journalist comes.

Very sad that it has ended up in court.

RicksAlfas

7,013 posts

149 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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It's a shame as both guys (in my eyes) seem very respectable gents who I imagine know each other well and should be able to sit down and talk about it.

As an aside what happens in historic racing where it's often a guest driver racing (and pranging) someone else's very expensive car?

SuperchargedVR6

1,939 posts

125 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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HAB said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
How did they know it revved to 8200rpm? Does a car that old have an ECM?
917 rev counter will have a tell-tale needle:

Aha! Thanks!

HustleRussell

9,418 posts

65 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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RicksAlfas said:
As an aside what happens in historic racing where it's often a guest driver racing (and pranging) someone else's very expensive car?
That's exactly the scenario 'bend it, mend it' was invented for. Certainly I wouldn't consider lending my car to anyone who couldn't afford to either insure it or fix it, and I would never consider lending a car to anyone with whom I'd need more than a 'gentleman's agreement' with. Mine is only a cheap car but the logic still applies.

ETA: It's always a little more complicated around mechanical failure though, because the argument will always exist- was the part 'due' a failure, was the car ill-prepared? Or was the failure caused by careless driving? As Ozzy Osmond said, you'd hope that in this instance they could reach a compromise, based on when the engine was last rebuilt- at the end of the day, it's a highly tuned competition engine and it has a finite life between rebuilds, there is a risk every time it is run.

Edited by HustleRussell on Friday 18th January 12:32


Edited by HustleRussell on Friday 18th January 12:37

GC8

16,826 posts

95 months

Friday 18th January 2013
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I wouldnt describe Mark Hales as a 'journalist'. He is an extremely experienced racer who now writes too.
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