Old fashioned immobiliser woes

[anonymous-user]

My 1981 Lancia Beta Spyder has an old fashioned immobiliser. It is one of those which requires you to insert a small cylindrical touch key into a socket. The red light turns green, and you can then start the car. When engaged, the immobiliser prevents sparking.

Yesterday, the red light came on whilst I was driving. The car carried on alright until I reached my destination, but when later on I sought to start the car, the red light would not go out and the immobiliser remained engaged.

I have disconnected the battery, and shall have another go later, but wonder if anyone here has encountered problems with this type of device.

I hate all immobilisers on principle, as they can knock out a perfectly good car. My Lancia has an under bonnet battery cutoff key anyway, so the immobiliser is a redundant system, offering at best a visual deterrent that the average scrote would probably ignore anyway.

I will post a photo of the device later. No doubt it can be bypassed, but right now it's a pain.

[Mistron]

Is it the type that looks like a wee watch battery of a plastic fob? That era of imoilisers used to cause no end of headaches at auctions when we were trying to move all the cars. I think battery condition is a big factor in their operation, but can't offer a likely cure I'm afraid, other than rip out all such aftermarket wiring and take the rotor arm out as well as the under bonnet cutout if you want to be sure.

Hope ou get it sorted
Al

[na]

just had similar with a neighbour's 190E just disconnecting the car battery and charging it and reconnecting had all working again (possibly a Scorpion system, importer fitted so I'm told)

I'm with you I loath immobilzers and alarms - some you can just disconnect others need more to remove and amend more wiring others you can't remove

[anonymous-user]

I add that the tiny touchkey does not appear to contain a battery. I have tried each of the two that I have. The fact that the light switched from green to red whilst the car was running suggests to me that the problem lies in the wiring somewhere.


The more modern transponder immobiliser on my Lotus Excel was zapped by the light fittings at a motorway service station in France, according to the tow truck guy who took me 1 km away, whereupon the car started.

[V8 FOU]

Rip the ferkin' thing out and fit a new Cat2 system. They aren't expensive and a lot better than that old stuff. Those jack plug things never were much good....

[na]

put a multimeter ( simple bulb with wires) on your car battery to see if it's low, always a good idea this time of year anyway)

I remember when visiting a pub which was very high up and with possibly those listening stations nearby that a car immobilizer wouldn't work and a local said that often happened there and the local rescue would either tow the car to the bottom or just cut through the wires on the immobilzer depending on the customer's choice

I also remember the Scooby P1 being stranded in many 'blackspots' until being towed a sometimes very short distance where they'd start instantly

[mph]

V8 FOU said:

Rip the ferkin' thing out and fit a new Cat2 system. They aren't expensive and a lot better than that old stuff. Those jack plug things never were much good....

+1

1980's immobilisers must rate in the top 10 least reliable car components. Rubbish.

[anonymous-user]

The car had been standing for ages until last week, awaiting a spare mechanical part. The battery was then given a jump, and I drove the car around with modest vigour. The voltmeter on rhe dash shows a good reading, and the car has started OK and all electrics have been fine, until now.

I have just reconnected the battery. At first no red or green light showed, and the digital clock did not come on. I tried the radio: no power, but all other electrics worked. Starter motor, but no spark.

Then the red light, clock and radio all woke up. So, inmobiliser still on. Now I have to go to a social do, so will investigate further tomorrow.

A pity, as today I could have taken the top off the car for the first time in ages.

[anonymous-user]

PS: I had been meaning to junk the immobiliser anyway, and will now do so for sure.

[na]

Breadvan72 said:

The car had been standing for ages until last week,

never good, car battery low/damp/condensation/'furred up' connections

Breadvan72 said:

Then the red light, clock and radio all woke up.

would the clock and radio be included in the immolbilser (? I don't know the answer)

with any electrics you need to have all connections, including battery clamps and leads and all earths clean secure and protected

[anonymous-user]

Here is the infernal contraption.

The little jack plug:-



Where you shove it:-



Thusly:-



Blinking annoying blinky red light, blinking:-

[jeremyc]

Breadvan72 said:

1981 Lancia Beta Spyder

Breadvan72 said:

... and all electrics have been fine, until now.

Does. Not. Compute.

You'll have to do better on the credibility stakes if you want to get an answer.

[benjj]

I think that is an early Cobra or Scorpion device, may be worth a google to see.

I'd agree with it being battery related as the most likely suspect. Do you have a conditioner you can use? Alternatively try hooking up jump leads from a modern motah and see if that helps to get it working at least.

Also second ripping the bugger out, prontissimo.

[anonymous-user]

I shall try giving the battery a zap tomorrow morning. Annoyingly, the car is conked out in the car park at work, although that's not far away.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

My money's on a sticky relay inside the immobiliser. This is a common problem that affects Troublesome Vehicular Recalcitrance as well. If you know where the immobiliser physically is, it might be worth giving it a good slap to see if the relay can be jolted into life.

[na]

Breadvan72 said:

I shall try giving the battery a zap tomorrow morning.

don.t do that as you might kill if it's a weak un

disconnect car battery, check electrolyte level in each cell and top up if required, connect up to an ordinary domestic battery charger and leave to charge for a good few hours possibly overnight, then if you can buy or borrow a battery conditioner and connect up and leave to give that final top up

clean inside of battery clamps, then reinstall battery, smear petroleum jelly over clamps and top of posts

see if that works even if it doesn't you've at least go a full battery charge which you always need for chasing and testing for electrical faults

if you have trouble charging your battery then replace it with a new one, a good battery will help you out of trouble whereas a poor battery could you put you in trouble and help to keep you there

one of the main causes of breakdowns is batteries, faulty batteries are very rare, faulty owners not so don't add to their numbers

[anonymous-user]

The battery is fine, thanks, and the car is now running.

The voltage was fine. The wiring at the dashboard end meant nothing to me, so I had a look at the coil. It appears that this immobiliser is an integral part of the coil. I had a prod, took connections off and put them back on again, and all that, and even tried swearing at the car in reasonably accented Italian, which is usually a sure fine winner, but still no go.

I rang the RAC, and a bloke turned up within 20 minutes. He had a good root around in the wires at the coil. He could not find any way of disconnecting or bypassing the contraption. We observed that this was a good design from the point of view of being tamper resistant, but a right pain when not working properly. The car used to live in Cheshire, so maybe its 1980s owner (at that time the car would have been considered moderately flash and TWOCworthy) was concerned about teenage Scallies coming out to visit him at night: hence the battery cutoff and an immobiliser that cannot be rapidly overcome.

The RAC bloke suggested that the solution would be to replace the coil with an ordinary one, but he did not have a coil in his truck, and it was too early for car shops to be open. So we tidied up and prepared to jack it in for the time being, but then, on one last try with the jack plug widget, the green light came on. Clearly the RAC bloke's poking at wires powers are greater than mine. Anyway, car home and garaged. I tried repeatedly stopping the engine, waiting a minute, and then starting it, and now the immobiliser works properly and the car starts with ease, but I will still bin the immobiliser/coil.

Thanks for all helpful suggestions above. Dr Mike Oxgreen appears to be the winner of the fiver. I will knock it off what you owe me for all that booze the other week, dear Doctor. Cars, eh? Rubbish, they are.

Here is a picture of the coil, with the immobiliser unit (silver) sat on top of it.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 27th January 09:27

[Hooli]

Immobiliser - A device for stopping anyone (including the owner) using a car, without stopping it getting stolen.

[anonymous-user]

I agree. Stupid and pointless things, and the insurance industry should stop encouraging their use.

[na]

I'm with you bin it and go back to standard coil

I was concerned when you said the voltage reading was good that you were reading when the engine was running, a lot of people say the battery is fine because the headlights work - obviously I couldn't sit you down and get a full statement from you and question that statement

even though I was barking up the wrong tree next time I'll get out the chair with arm and leg straps and question you thoroughly

don't forget to check your insurance and amend if required before removing the immobilser (even if it wasn't factory fitted) as the (evidence) details are now freely available to the world