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UltimaCH

Original Poster:

2,479 posts

74 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
I had the help of some muscle power this afternoon to flip my chassis over so that I can drill the rivet hole for the panels underneath.

BIG SURPRISE.... a stream of water came out from the rivet holes of the rear upper bulkhead cross tube yikes

I don't think this is normal eek Has anybody seen this before as I can't imagine the equivalent of a small glass of condensation building up inside the tubes. I am now seriously concerned for the inner integrity of the tubing and later consequences.

Your remarks will be appreciated. For those who may suggest contacting Ted and Richard, yes I have sent a mail to the Factory.

mt308

195 posts

28 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
Hi

I am afraid (or glad!) I didn't have any similar issues when I tipped mine over - though having said that I can't honestly remember if there were any open rivet holes for any water to actually have run out from.

Sorry can't be of any more help.

efnfast

7 posts

57 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all

GTRCLIVE

3,615 posts

168 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
When riveting you need to buy Enclosed Blind rivets. If you can see the ball at the end of the rivet before you use it then its not a true closed off rivet... For panels exposed to water I always use true enclosed ones....

GTRCLIVE

3,615 posts

168 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all


The one on the right is a True Enclosed Blind rivet and is less likely to let in water. You still need to use Panel sealant when you put them on and wax in the holes before assembly is always going to help...
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738 driver

1,197 posts

78 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
^ X 10 ......... posted on the last panelling thread and a few before.. pennies different in cost and multiple times the end product .

mt308

195 posts

28 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
I can't see how a car in a garage could fill up with water just by using rivets that might let some in though?

Life Saab Itch

37,053 posts

73 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
Firstly, I would suggest getting a dehumidifier in the garage and running it for a few days.

If you have a carcoon, put the chassis in it and leave the flaps open to dry it.

There is no point in suggesting blind rivets yet, as that will just seal in any condensation that is in the tubes already.

You need to dry the inside as best you can, then get some cavity wax in asap.

Bilt Hamber Dynax S50 on the Bilt Hamber website is sold with a 60cm injecting lance. This product will inhibit existing corrosion as well as preventing future corrosion.

738 driver

1,197 posts

78 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
Trying to beat severe atmospheric changes in a builders garage at this time of year isnt easy !! 8 inches of snow arrived and gone plus 11 degrees change in temp combined with extremes of humidity here ............ ?

UltimaCH

Original Poster:

2,479 posts

74 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th January 2013 quote quote all
Thanks for all the comments.

I was aware of the recent thread talking about the corrosion on the rear tubes under the gearbox area of Mr. Snood's chassis as I also posted some comments and his chassis has 3 years of usage.

My chassis however is brand new, has never been (to my knowledge) out in the rain and I cannot understand how around 1-2dl of water poured out of the holes. All of the chassis tubes were airtight until I drilled the first rivet hole and that was one week ago.

My workshop is perfectly dry and shows a constant humidity level of 60-65% controlled by a hygrometer, so at that level no need for a dryer. The comfort humidity level recommended in living areas is between 55-65%. What is measured in the workshop can be considered normal. Nothing else rusts in the place (tools, screws, nails, parts), so the measured humidity level can be, in my opinion, ruled out. The water which drained out of the tube was perfectly clear with a very slight metallic taste (yes I sampled some...). I may ask the metallurgical laboratory of the Swiss Federal Polytechnical School (EPFL) in Lausanne for comments and recommendations.

I sprayed Waxoyl in each and every rivet hole. I can understand and adhere to the recommendation of using enclosed blind rivets for all panels which are exposed to water and possible ingress.

The Factory has been informed and I expect a reply tomorrow and will keep you informed of any other news.

A worried and frustrated new owner signing out for the moment irked

Ultima factory

302 posts

130 months

[news] 
Monday 28th January 2013 quote quote all
We have been in contact with UltimaCH directly and explained that putting large amounts of waxoyl into a chassis tube will mean that the excess will condensate back into clear liquid form and can run out of any lower drilled holes until sealed with a rivet. This excess Waxoyl should not be a cause for concern.
Our build manual advises builders to squirt some waxoyl into the rivet holes at regular intervals by which we mean on a long straight run every sixth hole or so. Apportioning the single can of waxoyl that we supply over the whole chassis will give the desired amount of protection.

Regards to all,

dandare

388 posts

139 months

[news] 
Monday 28th January 2013 quote quote all
Daniel,

I would drill a single hole in every chassis tube just to make sure there's no water in the others. You can then put rivets in them after a squirt of waxoyl has been applied. I actually prefer to use engine oil because it stays runny, and will flow into cracks, and should any rust appear, its roughness will allow the oil to cover it through capillary action (my theory, anyway).

Years ago I helped a friend replace his rusted sill that had been waxoyled. Where the Wax had been was really rust free, but some of the areas that hadn't been covered had rusted. Water in an enclosed space will increase the humidity of the trapped air, whereas Wax (I can only assume) won't spread as a vapour.

I used to sparingly brush my old engine oil onto the underbody of my Volvo, and its floorpan still looks almost new after 43 years.

Daniel

ETA: Your problem almost sounds like sabotage. I wonder if someone has a problem with the factory. Have you been paying your bills on time, Ultima Factory?

Edited by dandare on Monday 28th January 10:59

UltimaCH

Original Poster:

2,479 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 28th January 2013 quote quote all
Thanks Ted and Richard, I feel more happy and reassured now thumbup

Ultima factory

302 posts

130 months

[news] 
Monday 28th January 2013 quote quote all
We have tested the rivets that we normally supply extensively for water ingress over the years and have found that the action of pulling the rivet up when using the correct length of rivet that we provide for each application seals the rivet from any water ingress.
However as some customers might possibly use the wrong length of rivet for an application the factory has decided to change to sealed blind rivets from now onwards as the cost difference is tiny and we will supply these on all future kits as standard.

Regards to all,

Edited by Ultima factory on Monday 28th January 11:13

UltimaCH

Original Poster:

2,479 posts

74 months

[news] 
Monday 28th January 2013 quote quote all
Good news and an extra reassuring factor for future builds!

Ultima factory

302 posts

130 months

[news] 
Monday 28th January 2013 quote quote all
dandare said:
Daniel,

I would drill a single hole in every chassis tube just to make sure there's no water in the others. You can then put rivets in them after a squirt of waxoyl has been applied. I actually prefer to use engine oil because it stays runny, and will flow into cracks, and should any rust appear, its roughness will allow the oil to cover it through capillary action (my theory, anyway).

Years ago I helped a friend replace his rusted sill that had been waxoyled. Where the Wax had been was really rust free, but some of the areas that hadn't been covered had rusted. Water in an enclosed space will increase the humidity of the trapped air, whereas Wax (I can only assume) won't spread as a vapour.

I used to sparingly brush my old engine oil onto the underbody of my Volvo, and its floorpan still looks almost new after 43 years.

Daniel

ETA: Your problem almost sounds like sabotage. I wonder if someone has a problem with the factory. Have you been paying your bills on time, Ultima Factory?

Edited by dandare on Monday 28th January 10:59
We can assure you that we pay all our bills on time without fail.
We also have a fantastic relationship with all of our suppliers.


Regards to all


Edited by Ultima factory on Monday 28th January 11:16

UltimaCH

Original Poster:

2,479 posts

74 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
I did a bit of trawling on the net to find out more about condensation and dew point. I would like to show you this interesting chart which shows that if you are in a relative high humidity context and lowish temperatures you are going to be close or even above the corresponding dew point. So builders in non heated garages BEWARE...!



Edited by UltimaCH on Tuesday 29th January 12:17

Ultima factory

302 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
UltimaCH said:
I did a bit of trawling on the net to find out more about condensation and dew point. I would like to show you this interesting chart which shows that if you are in a relative high humidity context and lowish temperatures you are going to be close or even above the corresponding dew point. So builders in non heated garages BEWARE...!



Edited by UltimaCH on Tuesday 29th January 12:17
Simply put there is nothing to BEWARE of.
We’ve seen Ultima vehicles (finished cars and unfinished kits) that have been stored in unheated barns, garages and shipping containers for over a decade with no ill effects whatsoever.

In 22 years of supplying chassis we have never seen a chassis that has needed a structural repair due to rusting nor have we had any reports from other customers that this has occurred.
We have never had to repair a chassis through rusting.

Each Ultima chassis has been treated using the same process by the same company since 1997

The treatment is-
1. Shot blasted with a stone shot.
2. Spray primed with a grey etching primer
3. Powder coating electrostatically applied
4. Oven baked

Prior to 1997 we used other specialist companies that used a very similar powder coating process.

The Ultima chassis has been constructed using steel of a thickness that not only adequately transmits the loads but has a safety margin built in to withstand a reasonable level of surface corrosion that could occur should the powder coating become damaged over time. The chassis and wishbones are adequately protected to provide a long life span and we would also like to assure customers that all the steel that the factory uses for the construction of the Ultima is of a certified quality.


Regards to all,


ambar

15 posts

142 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
err....http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=20&t=1218198&nmt=

Citrus7

1,170 posts

66 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
ambar said:
err....http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=20&t=1218198&nmt=
and within that thread

Ultima factory said:
We feel it is worth pointing out these facts regarding this thread:
1. It appears to be 99% certain that the corrosion occurred in this instance due to a non factory transaxle mounting method being used. Furthermore it crushed the chassis member due to poor design as shown in the pics.

...........
2
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