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deadscoob

Original Poster:

1,249 posts

145 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
Have noticed a factory parts update of a lightweight ally radiator.

I thought alloy rads were always dismissed by the factory as they disnt form part of the crash structure.

Has this now changed?

macgtech

884 posts

44 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
What is the cooling performance like compared to the old version?

Ultima factory

302 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 29th January 2013 quote quote all
Our new aluminium radiator option is 6.5kg lighter than our standard copper/steel version.
We do still feel that our standard copper/steel version offers more occupant safety in the event of a front crash impact and customers might prefer to opt for the standard copper/steel version for this reason.
The cooling performance is very similar with the aluminium radiator but this is never an issue anyhow with a factory spec Ultima, it’s main advantage is the weight saving.

Horses for courses.


Regards to all,

V8Dom

2,714 posts

87 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th January 2013 quote quote all
Suprised the factory are offering this as I really wanted to fit one last year but they persuaded me not too.

However I will say with lack of front end grip in the Ultima already and with a 6 kg weight saving as far forward as the radiator could effect handling as well as the argued safety issues... The crashed Ultima at last years open day really showed the effect a radiator has in a crash.


I followed Ted and Richards advise and in the end had mine recored instead.

Dom

Edited by V8Dom on Wednesday 30th January 22:08

V8Dom

2,714 posts

87 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th January 2013 quote quote all
macgtech said:
What is the cooling performance like compared to the old version?
it will make alot of difference.

i used to run a copper/steel rad in my sunbeam tiger and fitted a radtec alloy rad to drop the temp.. amazed at the difference.. 10 degrees drop in traffic standing still... the only thing you might have a problem with racing is getting temp into the engine on a cold day. the alloy rads are very efficient and because the alloy disperses heat very quickly the fans also drop temp quicker too..

Dom
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dandare

388 posts

139 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
I would be surprised about that. Copper has almost double the heat transfer rate of aluminium.

Storer

2,926 posts

100 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
I have had an ally radiator made to fit my car (I have a raised section to my chassis in this area to fit a chassis mounted splitter).

I have had no cooling issues with my LS7. The test will come at Le Mans later in the year but I am confident it will be fine (famous last words).

The last thing you want is added weight. There are other ways of getting the front end to bite when cornering.


Paul



738 driver

1,197 posts

78 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
Interesting to hear the claimed improvements in alloy rad cooling.. as already stated the change in material does not support improved efficiency at all ..perhaps more has gone into the design, pipe size, layout, flow etc etc .

I was all for going the lightweight radiator route before having few test drives.... I'll stick with stock and find room for whatever I can toward the front for now .

G luck.

deadscoob

Original Poster:

1,249 posts

145 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
I have to chuckle at worrying about a 6kg weight reduction.

No one will notice that in anything other than race conditions. And even then only if you're a good enough driver.

macgtech

884 posts

44 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
738 driver said:
I was all for going the lightweight radiator route before having few test drives....
Could you elaborate on this?

Essentially, the more cooling we can achieve the better - and if the alloy rad helps, then it will certainly be the way to go (the added bonus of reduced weight). There certainly will not be any issues with getting the engine warm on cold days.

UltimaCH

2,479 posts

74 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
macgtech said:
There certainly will not be any issues with getting the engine warm on cold days.
You can always revert to the traditional method of blanking off some of the rad to get some heat flowing if running too cool...

DHGTR

1,132 posts

128 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
deadscoob said:
I have to chuckle at worrying about a 6kg weight reduction.

No one will notice that in anything other than race conditions. And even then only if you're a good enough driver.
+1
I also looked into an ali rad but online research shows that the coppper is a much better heat conductor than the ali.

And speaking for myself a 6Kg weight saving could be achieved much much closer to home smile

ultimass

60 posts

44 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
Don't you guys run with thermostats?

I have a alli rad in my GTR fitted with a tuned LS7.

The water temp rises very quickly from cold (3 or 4 minutes) my thermostat must start opening around 90 deg as the normal temp peaks just over this.

Never had any hot running issues, fans kick in at 100 deg.

Would be interested to find out (not in my car!!) just what the difference is between the 2 types of rad. in a front end crash?


Martin.

Graham-P

1,334 posts

131 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
ultimass said:
Don't you guys run with thermostats?
I have a alli rad in my GTR fitted with a tuned LS7.
The water temp rises very quickly from cold (3 or 4 minutes) my thermostat must start opening around 90 deg as the normal temp peaks just over this.
Never had any hot running issues, fans kick in at 100 deg.
Would be interested to find out (not in my car!!) just what the difference is between the 2 types of rad. in a front end crash?
Martin.
Same here Martin, I have a alloy rad and run a std tune LS3, I see those temps as well.

Graham

macgtech

884 posts

44 months

[news] 
Thursday 31st January 2013 quote quote all
UltimaCH said:
You can always revert to the traditional method of blanking off some of the rad to get some heat flowing if running too cool...
Exactly - much easier than trying to cool things down when they get too hot.

The other option is to get one of the drivers to drive on the grass for a short period of time, that soon gets the temperatures racing upwards....

chuntington101

4,693 posts

121 months

[news] 
Friday 1st February 2013 quote quote all
macgtech said:
Exactly - much easier than trying to cool things down when they get too hot.

The other option is to get one of the drivers to drive on the grass for a short period of time, that soon gets the temperatures racing upwards....
Alternatively just run more power! smile

drunyon

33 posts

36 months

dandare

388 posts

139 months

[news] 
Sunday 3rd February 2013 quote quote all
drunyon said:
Yes, I read that. He sounds pretty fair.
Nevertheless, I find it surprising that nobody has done an accurate back-to-back comparison of the radiators (well a quick google didn't come up with anything).

In the case of the Ultima, which has limited space for a radiator, I suppose copper would be (theoretically) better, but most people have few problems with heat, so aluminium sounds good for weight reduction.

"Only 6kg". Race teams spend a lot of money to save that sort of weight, and every little helps.

From what I've read, problems with heat in Ultimas seems to be confined to stationary or slow-moving traffic conditions when the mechanical water pump isn't pumping much. An electric water pump which in some cases is is also going to save about 5kg (has anyone felt the weight of the LS water pump?), and will increase the power and lifespan of the motor, seems like a no-brainer.

Use lightweight forged wheels instead of 3-piece ones (which I think are heavier, but feel free to correct me), and the Ultima starts to look like a sub 900kg car. Improvements to power to weight ratio, handling, economy, etc. Do the right things and a difference may be noticed even in fast road driving.

MarkWebb

845 posts

102 months

[news] 
Sunday 3rd February 2013 quote quote all
So I have A "550hp" AS engine and std rad. I became very concerned about engine temps in traffic jams in very hot weather although she never physically boiled. Fitted CSR engine mounted electric pump and speed controller instead of thermostat and problem was gone. However I initially set engine temp at 75deg C for better power. System was unable to manage this at motorway speeds in very hot weather. Uprated fans running 100% of the time! Set to 85 deg C and no more problems. Simple mod although not cheap. I was prompted to do it by a water pump pulley failure on the way back to Southampton from the FOD a couple of years back.

deadscoob

Original Poster:

1,249 posts

145 months

[news] 
Sunday 3rd February 2013 quote quote all
dandare said:
"Only 6kg". Race teams spend a lot of money to save that sort of weight, and every little helps.

Use lightweight forged wheels instead of 3-piece ones (which I think are heavier, but feel free to correct me), and the Ultima starts to look like a sub 900kg car. Improvements to power to weight ratio, handling, economy, etc. Do the right things and a difference may be noticed even in fast road driving.
For race teams 6kg may well be worth saving, but as it seems 95% of Ultimas don't even make it to a track, let alone race, I think the 6kg will make bugger all difference.

Sub 900kg for an SBC or LS car would be difficult and expensive IMO.
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