What's PH's opinion on.......

[smiffy180]

Pro hormones?
Had a link sent to me on Facebook for a stack and then had a google about them. Apparently a pro hormone is classed as a "legal" steroid. The reason behind the " is that you can buy them over the counter. Upon further research the gains from these can be impressive compared to a person taking nothing at all with little to no side affects. A PCT is recommended so you are effectively following a steroid cycle but without being on steroids.
An example I read was a methyl masterdrol cycle where by the user gained 60lbs on his bench press - even on a perfect diet I don't think this would be possible in 4-6 weeks.
The one downside is that under tests they can show up as a steroid user so not sure how it would work for competitions etc.
I have said that I do not wish to take steroids but pro hormones aren't quite that are they? And @£27 for a ~33day supply; I think it's quite a bargain if you don't want to take steroids.
What does PH think?
Go for it or avoid like the plague?
(I'm happy to be a guinea pig if anyone wants feedback)

[didelydoo]

Yes, pro hormones are steroids. Just generaly not as good the proper ones. You'll no longer be 'natural' if you take them. (though many kid themselves they are)

[smiffy180]

didelydoo said:

Yes, pro hormones are steroids. Just generaly not as good the proper ones. You'll no longer be 'natural' if you take them. (though many kid themselves they are)

So what's the difference then? They appeal to me but steroids do not

[Slink]

are they just pills?

and IIRC steroids are just hormones, testosterone I think.

thats why your balls shrink on them, as your balls stop making testosterone as there is a huge load if it in your system from the steroids.


you got a link to the stack so I can check it out.

[didelydoo]

smiffy180 said:

So what's the difference then? They appeal to me but steroids do not

They are pretty much steroids with an alteration to there chemical make up to avoid legislation that makes them illegal. Loads of folk take them not knowing that they ARE steroids, and have all of the associated sides as well as some of the gains. Loads of info on the net about them, read thoroughly if you plan on taking them.

[smiffy180]

didelydoo said:

smiffy180 said:

So what's the difference then? They appeal to me but steroids do not

They are pretty much steroids with an alteration to there chemical make up to avoid legislation that makes them illegal. Loads of folk take them not knowing that they ARE steroids, and have all of the associated sides as well as some of the gains. Loads of info on the net about them, read thoroughly if you plan on taking them.

That's what I read but they weren't as strong so a half steroid? I don't want full steroid effects but would like to increase my strength as I've levelled out on squat and starting to level out on other lifts (but I have started a new program to get round this)

[smiffy180]

Slink said:

are they just pills?

and IIRC steroids are just hormones, testosterone I think.

thats why your balls shrink on them, as your balls stop making testosterone as there is a huge load if it in your system from the steroids.


you got a link to the stack so I can check it out.

This is what I was sent:
http://www.supplementdealz.co.uk/special-offer-sta...
This is what I was looking at:
http://www.jwsupplements.co.uk/Pro-SD.html

[LostBMW]

smiffy180 said:

didelydoo said:

Yes, pro hormones are steroids. Just generaly not as good the proper ones. You'll no longer be 'natural' if you take them. (though many kid themselves they are)

So what's the difference then? They appeal to me but steroids do not

So do they appeal because they are just as dangerous - often more so (esp. the oral ingested pills) - less well known about, less well controlled, less effective, often times, or less 'immoral' in some weird way? Or less expensive and easier to get?

Iirc you are pretty young and early doors training history wise. What's the rush? You might get a bit stronger, a bit bigger, on them but how effectively will you perform in 10 or 20 years if you fk your liver up? Catches up with you faster than you think, age. And all the mistakes you've made. Believe me, I know...

[didelydoo]

I'd read up on it. They are steroids, not 'half' steroids, some are very liver toxic too.
Also, no offence intended, but I'd get strength levels up before even considering it- as LBMW says, you've loads of time

Edited by didelydoo on Saturday 2nd February 14:35

[smiffy180]

LostBMW said:

So do they appeal because they are just as dangerous - often more so (esp. the oral ingested pills) - less well known about, less well controlled, less effective, often times, or less 'immoral' in some weird way? Or less expensive and easier to get?

Iirc you are pretty young and early doors training history wise. What's the rush? You might get a bit stronger, a bit bigger, on them but how effectively will you perform in 10 or 20 years if you fk your liver up? Catches up with you faster than you think, age. And all the mistakes you've made. Believe me, I know...

Well from the one I looked at
- you don't bloat up
- no loss of libido (maybe some towards end of cycle)
- no adverse side affects such as hair loss
-strength (and size gains if any) are kept; no reported losses

As for liver I don't drink, haven't properly in over a year and yes I will be 21 in 2 weeks but was planning on March time. Also was going to get milk thistle to counteract the toxicity
ETA: I also read that the one I looked at doesn't affect blood pressure etc which is a attractive positive

Edited by smiffy180 on Saturday 2nd February 14:47

[smiffy180]

didelydoo said:

I'd read up on it. They are steroids, not 'half' steroids, some are very liver toxic too.
Also, no offence intended, but I'd get strength levels up before even considering it- as LBMW says, you've loads of time

Edited by didelydoo on Saturday 2nd February 14:35

Oh yeh don't get me wrong it's just something thats been put to my attention and looks pretty promising but without roid rage etc.
I want atleast a year and halfs training behind me anyway before buying anything like that + what I said above

[LostBMW]

smiffy180 said:

LostBMW said:

So do they appeal because they are just as dangerous - often more so (esp. the oral ingested pills) - less well known about, less well controlled, less effective, often times, or less 'immoral' in some weird way? Or less expensive and easier to get?

Iirc you are pretty young and early doors training history wise. What's the rush? You might get a bit stronger, a bit bigger, on them but how effectively will you perform in 10 or 20 years if you fk your liver up? Catches up with you faster than you think, age. And all the mistakes you've made. Believe me, I know...

Well from the one I looked at
- you don't bloat up
- no loss of libido (maybe some towards end of cycle)
- no adverse side affects such as hair loss
-strength (and size gains if any) are kept; no reported losses

As for liver I don't drink, haven't properly in over a year and yes I will be 21 in 2 weeks but was planning on March time. Also was going to get milk thistle to counteract the toxicity

Was that from the supplier's advertising blurb? Or the sites that rely on advertising and court the suppliers. The 'health food'/ sports supplement market is such a huge and exploitative one, stalked by snakeoil salesman and criminal scum. Yes, Joe Weider I might be thinking of someone close to the Towers!

You don't need to drink to have oral steroids ruin your liver. Milk thistle is not a wonder drug or cure all either.

But, as I said, what's the rush? Or the point? Don't you want to know how strong you might have got naturally? Once breached you can't ever go back, or know, really.

[didelydoo]

Really, do a bit more research before taking anything. I've nothing against steroids (hell, I may even use in the future, when I'm proper old, but not pro hormones though, may as well do it properly).....but anything that gives you big gains will have its down side.
Also- 18month training isn't long in the grand scheme of things.

Edited by didelydoo on Saturday 2nd February 14:55

[smiffy180]

The rush? There is non is just an idea
The point? I would like to enter Britain's strongest man by the time I'm 24/25 and if I'm no where near good enough im toying with the use of PH/AAS.
According to a website even a beginner lifter can take a PH just a smaller dosage BUT that's just a website. Obviously I would consult my doctor prior to do anything.
Also I've read that if you want to go the steroid route then PH is a way of getting an idea of how they are, e.g you don't want the full blown affects of a steroid straight away as you don't know how you'll cope with it.
Oh and im not arguing or being ignorant if that's how it comes across

[LostBMW]

smiffy180 said:

The rush? There is non is just an idea
The point? I would like to enter Britain's strongest man by the time I'm 24/25 and if I'm no where near good enough im toying with the use of PH/AAS.
According to a website even a beginner lifter can take a PH just a smaller dosage BUT that's just a website. Obviously I would consult my doctor prior to do anything.
Also I've read that if you want to go the steroid route then PH is a way of getting an idea of how they are, e.g you don't want the full blown affects of a steroid straight away as you don't know how you'll cope with it.
Oh and im not arguing or being ignorant if that's how it comes across

No, I don't think you are being and I'm worried I'll come across as a miserable old git know it all. But, on these threads (if not others!) I'll usually try to be helpful and supportive and have been around enough people for long enough to know these aren't things to rush into. They can seriously mess you up and for less benefit than the established steroids. Even then there is the danger of finding a supply that's not iffy and actually knowing what's in the bottle.

So, in that spirit of encouraging you, I'd encourage you to wait - stay natural (and safe) and get as far as you can naturally before taking the plunge - then if you are determined to go further do it properly. A doctor is very likely to dismiss this out of hand and offer little help. The best source of information I know of is local to me - Mick Hart.

I'm not flagging this up as a "go to him.. now!" sales pitch (DON'T!) but because, if you ever do decide to risk it - and there are risks whatever you take - he knows his stuff and offers advice that's a lot saner than the norm, e.g. does not promote massive dosages etc.

http://www.bodybuildingandanabolicsteroids.com/

BTW - the biggest risk (from the people I've seen/trained around) is the mental/psychological effects. I've seen a few really bad physical health issues/side effects but not many, certainly that couldn't be managed/overturned, but some messed up heads and damaged lives. Anyone doing this should have proper advice and supervision not play amateur hour.

Edited by LostBMW on Saturday 2nd February 16:26

[smiffy180]

LostBMW said:

smiffy180 said:

The rush? There is non is just an idea
The point? I would like to enter Britain's strongest man by the time I'm 24/25 and if I'm no where near good enough im toying with the use of PH/AAS.
According to a website even a beginner lifter can take a PH just a smaller dosage BUT that's just a website. Obviously I would consult my doctor prior to do anything.
Also I've read that if you want to go the steroid route then PH is a way of getting an idea of how they are, e.g you don't want the full blown affects of a steroid straight away as you don't know how you'll cope with it.
Oh and im not arguing or being ignorant if that's how it comes across

No, I don't think you are being and I'm worried I'll come across as a miserable old git know it all. But, on these threads (if not others!) I'll usually try to be helpful and supportive and have been around enough people for long enough to know these aren't things to rush into. They can seriously mess you up and for less benefit than the established steroids. even there there is the danger of finding a supply that's not iffy and actually knowing what's in the bottle.

So, in that spirit of encouraging you, I'd encourage you to wait - stay natural (and safe) and get as far as you can naturally before taking the plunge - then if you are determined to go further do it properly. A doctor is very likely to dismiss this out of hand and offer little help. The best source of information I know of is local to me - Mick Hart.

I'm not flagging this up as a "go to him.. now!" sales pitch (DON'T!) but because, if you ever do decide to risk it - and there are risks whatever you take - he knows his stuff and offers advice that's a lot saner than the norm, e.g. does not promote massive dosages etc.

http://www.bodybuildingandanabolicsteroids.com/

BTW - the biggest risk (from the people I've seen/trained around) is the mental/psychological effects. I've seen a few really bad physical health issues/side effects but not many, certainly that couldn't be managed/overturned, but some messed up heads and damaged lives. Anyone doing this should have proper advice and supervision not play amateur hour.

I appreciate your input which is why I started this thread.
I think I'll go get a testosterone level check first

[didelydoo]

As long as you read up on it and aware of the risks, that's the best you can do. How old are you just now out of interest?

[smiffy180]

didelydoo said:

As long as you read up on it and aware of the risks, that's the best you can do. How old are you just now out of interest?

21 in 2 weeks. Im 6'3 134kg but not what I'd call flabby. I just carry it on my gut which im slowly getting rid of

[smiffy180]

Ordinary_Chap said:

I'm a pretty liberal guy and don't judge people for using steroids of any variety. If I'm honest, if I didn't have health issues I would probably at least try it at least once. Its hard to not want a 30%+ increase in performance that is available.

Pro-hormones like any other steriods aren't half as bad as people would have you believe as long as you do it in a controlled and intelligent way.

You need to consider post cycle therapy and be ready to deal with gyno should it raise its ugly head and other than the obvious stuff like not drinking then its not a very difficult thing to do.

The only thing I'd say is SD is considered the most powerful of the pro hormone based steroids although based on your size it shouldn't be too much of an issue unless you have any mental issues.

I've watched people train in various gyms over the years and I came to the conclusion steroids do not turn people into aggressive monsters, they just make people bigger idiots if they are an idiot to start with. Nearly all of the folk who I've met through the years who have admitted to being on them have been perfectly decent people and not the raging monsters the press like to make out they are.

I'd be interested to see how you get on! Just be careful if you do go ahead!

I'm exactly the same as you. Infact one the fitness moans thread; I had a go at a guy who bought a test booster of a bodybuilder M1T I think it was and had no idea what a PCT is. I lectured him for half an hour and basically a bking and most of his responses were yeh but he said I don't need a PCT. I gave it to him hard and told him everything that would go wrong with his body, all the gains would be lost etc. This really hit home from him and he looked scared and double checked with me what to look for as a PCT. I am by no means stupid/silly etc when it comes to messing with your body's natural products.
I am always on the search for products that will give me even 1/5th of steroid gains but not much luck and PH's came up on Facebook which I've never looked at. I will research a lot more into them but so far it's an introductory into steroids if you want to take that route.
As for gyno google suggests that SD doesn't give you gyno but if it does its barely noticeable which sounds promising - gyno is reversible anyway.
I have no mental issues except an addiction to PistonHeads :|
In the gym I'm to laid back, I cant syche (sp?) Myself up for a lift; I just do it. Which is probably why I don't make decent gains.
I am however trying hypnotherapy first in March so I will do a write up on that
If I do take PH's I will do a write up aswell for other peoples interest.

[didelydoo]

Ordinary_Chap said:

You seem like a smart chap and have thought through the implications.

One point to note however is gyno can be reduced but it isn't reversible for most once they have it without an operation. The trick as I understand it is stop to it getting out of hand if you are prone too it. If you detect it and act it can be stopped, reduced and made to disappear however it comes fast and is of a reasonable size then from the experience I have seen with other dudes and the forums an operation is more than often required.

I think like most things, seek moderation, be smart and be prepared

Nail on the head.

Also- If you do decide to take- log progress on here, it'd be great to see the difference it can make.