RE: Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence

RE: Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence

Monday 4th February 2013

Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence

Renaultsport MD tells us why it's the paddleshift way or the highway



Clearly subscribing to the school of thought that attack is the best form of defence Renaultsport MD Patrice Ratti (in conversation last week at the Monte Historique) counters PH's complaint that the lack of a manual Clio 200 wipes out much of the car's on-paper appeal to keen drivers. "Call me when you've driven it," he says, steely eyed and clearly expecting an apology for the implication flappy paddles can't deliver the involvement Renaultsport cars are famed for.

EDC gearbox is a major selling point, we're told
EDC gearbox is a major selling point, we're told
He continues with a quick left-right to hammer his point home. First the functional side. "Racing cars use paddle-shift gearboxes. It's faster," he says. Worth remembering that race and rally cars make up a significant part of Renaultsport's business, the Dieppe factory building rally Clio and Twingos and the various single-seaters racing in Renault one-make series. So there is a transfer of ideology here, if not an absolutely direct one of technology with the Clio's Getrag-sourced EDC dual-clutch somewhat different from the Sadev sequentials used by Clio Cup cars, even if both shift via paddles.

Fair enough, we counter. But speed isn't everything for a road car and for many of us the satisfaction of DIY rev-matching and carefully honed heel'n'toe downshifts are pleasures we can indulge in regardless of whether we're on a track or the daily commute. And something our PH Fleet Megane is perfectly tuned to achieve, as personal experience and the smooth driving of our Renaultsport chaperones on the Monte rally stages attests.

Paddleshift only for next Clio - and next GT3
Paddleshift only for next Clio - and next GT3
And then we hit the real reason, hidden behind that smokescreen of 'it's what racing cars have' marketing. It's a simple business case. "The decision was made years ago," he says with the merest hint of a Gallic shrug. "We looked at competitor cars from Volkswagen and others and maybe two-thirds of sales went to dual clutch when there was a choice." He doubtless refers to the platform sharing, twincharger-powered, DSG-only Fabia vRS, Polo GTI and Ibiza Cupra triumvirate as a key influencer here. Which doesn't bode well, given our recent experience of the latter.

With the new Clio RS's mandate to appeal to a wider audience dual-clutch is, quite simply, going to bring more customers to the brand. While dropping the manual choice will annoy a vocal minority it's a straightforward business decision. A manual option would make the car more expensive, the loss of a few sales to stickshift diehards easier to bear than the opportunities to sell more cars to a wider audience at the required price point. Enthusiast brand or not Renaultsport is still a commercial enterprise and you can ask Lotus how the business case for catering purely to the hardcore stacks up.

208 GTI arrives around the same time - as a manual
208 GTI arrives around the same time - as a manual
Expect a very similar conversation with the Porsche engineers and marketeers when the PDK-only 911 GT3 arrives. And if you really, really want your French hot hatch with a manual bear in mind the 208 GTI will offer just that - we'll be driving it a couple of weeks after our first go in the Clio too. We'll maybe hold off calling Ratti until that point.

 

 

 

 
Author
Discussion

GTiFrank

Original Poster:

625 posts

183 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
I don't understand why those of us that want and buy manual cars are the "diehards" and in the minority here. Surly your average PHer IS the target audience for this car, and I would bet more than 2/3rds of us would spec a Clio RS with a manual box given the choice!

Gorbyrev

1,160 posts

153 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
You have got to wonder whether disappointing a vocal minority is going to pay off. How many of us have considered Renault ownership purely on the basis of driver focused halo models.

insideimsmiling

102 posts

175 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
Looks good whatever the transmission!

sw1000xg

63 posts

148 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
The sooner manual goes away the better!

Heel'n'toe. Is that kiddie talk or something.

Only reason I don't want to buy a new Renault is it has NO auto/semi option!

Don't care about this rubbish about manual changes. I want SPEED, performance, and I don't want a slow clumsy manual getting in the way of the driving I love to do!

Skylinecrazy

13,986 posts

193 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
sw1000xg said:
The sooner manual goes away the better!

Heel'n'toe. Is that kiddie talk or something.
You seem to be an idiot?

Dave^

7,324 posts

252 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
sw1000xg said:
The sooner manual goes away the better!

Heel'n'toe. Is that kiddie talk or something.

Only reason I don't want to buy a new Renault is it has NO auto/semi option!

Don't care about this rubbish about manual changes. I want SPEED, performance, and I don't want a slow clumsy manual getting in the way of the driving I love to do!
notsureifserious.jpg

Johnspex

4,332 posts

183 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
sw1000xg said:
The sooner manual goes away the better!

Heel'n'toe. Is that kiddie talk or something.
Blimey,you're brave coming on here and saying that. Or are you being ironic?

Lione1 Richie

173 posts

182 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
I saw my first new Clio on the road this Saturday. I have to say (in black at least) it looked very cool.

I'm a big RS fan and although the styling is challenging and most likely may not age well I think reserving judgement untill I've driven the RS is the best thing to do.

Finally, you can't blame a company for chasing sales and reducing emissions, the 'hardcore' people think this car should be appealing to just don't make up a big enough number to make a solid business case. In any case, if you want hardcore pick up a 200, they are a real bargin and I'm sure will become highly sought after by the hardcore in future years - so win win smile

JulianCharity

50 posts

173 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
Seems like Renault are trying to take some of the VW market share by switching to a paddle shift. Unfortunately it will be the undoing of them as they should be focussing on their existing customer base, which they will now lose some of. If it's more expensive than offerings from Ford or Kia I just can't see people buying it >20k+ for a Renault?.

A Scotsman

1,000 posts

198 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
As the owner of a relatively low mileage Clio 182 which I absolutely adore it's not actually the flappy paddle gearbox that concerns me but that disgustingly ugly instrument panel!!

Gdgd

1,258 posts

223 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
sw1000xg said:
The sooner manual goes away the better!

Heel'n'toe. Is that kiddie talk or something.

Only reason I don't want to buy a new Renault is it has NO auto/semi option!

Don't care about this rubbish about manual changes. I want SPEED, performance, and I don't want a slow clumsy manual getting in the way of the driving I love to do!
scratchchin

Noesph

1,148 posts

148 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
ah well, at least Peugeot might do well out of this.

Hitch78

6,100 posts

193 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
I think that it will be a very good steer and I think it looks great too. I'm a recent DSG convert so less fussy than I would have been a year or so ago.

TheRoadWarrior

1,241 posts

177 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
galicMan said:
"Racing cars use paddle-shift gearboxes. It's faster," he says.
Did someone not tell this bloke what RS cars are all about?

If I wanted a 'faster' car than the Clio200 I'd probably buy a 2.0tdi ****box. BUT THAT's MISSING THE POINT!

galicMan said:
"We looked at competitor cars from Volkswagen and others and maybe two-thirds of sales went to dual clutch when there was a choice."
Renault is not VW. Renault is not going to become VW. AFAIK Renaultsport sales are propping up Renault in this country. Tailoring their vehicles to be more mainstream rather than continuing to be the ONLY manufacturer brave enough to deliver a product like the Clio 200 and Megane 265 is exactly the wrong thing to do.

They're in danger of disapearing into obscurity imho

Charlie Michael

2,750 posts

183 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
TheRoadWarrior said:
galicMan said:
"Racing cars use paddle-shift gearboxes. It's faster," he says.
Did someone not tell this bloke what RS cars are all about?

If I wanted a 'faster' car than the Clio200 I'd probably buy a 2.0tdi ****box. BUT THAT's MISSING THE POINT!

galicMan said:
"We looked at competitor cars from Volkswagen and others and maybe two-thirds of sales went to dual clutch when there was a choice."
Renault is not VW. Renault is not going to become VW. AFAIK Renaultsport sales are propping up Renault in this country. Tailoring their vehicles to be more mainstream rather than continuing to be the ONLY manufacturer brave enough to deliver a product like the Clio 200 and Megane 265 is exactly the wrong thing to do.

They're in danger of disapearing into obscurity imho
+1 The car looks pants.

Regiment

2,799 posts

158 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
sw1000xg said:
The sooner manual goes away the better!

Heel'n'toe. Is that kiddie talk or something.

Only reason I don't want to buy a new Renault is it has NO auto/semi option!

Don't care about this rubbish about manual changes. I want SPEED, performance, and I don't want a slow clumsy manual getting in the way of the driving I love to do!
Perhaps it's not the manual gearbox that's slow and clumsy and gets in the way, perhaps it's your left hand?

DoctorX

7,240 posts

166 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
A Scotsman said:
As the owner of a relatively low mileage Clio 182 which I absolutely adore it's not actually the flappy paddle gearbox that concerns me but that disgustingly ugly instrument panel!!
+1
The exterior is pretty horrific too.

Chicane-UK

3,861 posts

184 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
I've been critical of the exterior styling but have to hold my hands up and say I saw one of these outside a Renault dealer the other day as I was passing by. Only got a few seconds to look but felt it looked a fair bit better in the metal and plastic than the photo's suggest..

framerateuk

2,730 posts

183 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
Can't wait to drive one.

sad61t

1,100 posts

209 months

Monday 4th February 2013
quotequote all
The alpha-PHers want a manual, but I'm not an alpha, more an epsilon and therefore welcome the coming of the efficient auto box. After several missed changes from third to second and subsequent coasting around the corner, and needing two arms to shove the MINI's (BMW: weighted; IMO: hideously baulky) manual box into reverse I ticked the auto option plus paddles on my current MINI. I love it, and there is some (different) skill in pre-empting the auto's calculations for pulling out of a junction, overtaking and round-a-corner-up-a-hill scenarios where the AI lags by a half-second or so.

But then, as an epsilon-male, I've little interest in buying a 200bhp hatch anyway; there's little point when 95% of my journeys are within urban limits. It will be an interesting year watching if Renault's VW-u-like gamble pays off, or if their sales were based on the manual USP (unique selling point) and now they have gone down the DCT route their customers will think they may as well buy into the German autobahnstormer mythos.