RE: PH Heroes: Honda S2000

RE: PH Heroes: Honda S2000

Friday 22nd February 2013

PH Heroes: Honda S2000

The roadster that titivated with frantic VTEC revs and tail-happy chassis



Is the Honda S2000 a PH Hero? That’s a question we pondered before running this feature. It certainly hasn’t quite got the cult following of some of our previous Heroes. And while you’ll find ranks of fans of Honda’s roadster, you’ll also find a fair few dissenters too.

SSM was the start of the S2000 story
SSM was the start of the S2000 story
The case for the defence starts not when the S2000 was first released in 1999, but in fact with the SSM roadster of 1995. It was first shown at the Tokyo Motor Show that year, and featured a 2.0-litre, four-cylinder powerplant combined with a new type of chassis architecture, which Honda called ‘X-Bone’ and which was claimed to make an enormous difference to vehicle rigidity. What’s more, the SSM boasted 50:50 weight distribution.

Record numbers
Four years later, the SSM finally entered production, in somewhat altered form, as the S2000. It retained the same chassis architecture and weight distribution, and with the aid of VTEC technology, its F20C 2.0-litre four produced a remarkable 240hp, giving it the highest specific power output for any mass-produced naturally-aspirated engine. It was a record it held for 11 years, and it took the might of Ferrari’s 458 Italia to break it.

Torque: does the S2000 have enough?
Torque: does the S2000 have enough?
But it wasn’t just the power figure that made the headlines; it was also the way it was delivered. The rev limiter came in at 9,000rpm – 9,000 – and peak power was delivered just shy of that at 8,300rpm. The VTEC system that enabled the engine to reach such heady power levels didn’t even become active (or, ahem, kick in) until 6,100rpm.

Torque Down
Of course, the top-end character of the S2000 also led to the criticism that’s most often levelled in its direction: torque. Or, to be more precise, a lack of it: the F20C could only muster 153lb ft, and it didn’t even do that until 7,500rpm.

It was an issue that was oft-cited in contemporary road tests – but driving the S2000 today, it really doesn’t seem like such a big problem. No, it won’t give you the mid-range punch of a turbo or a gutsy big-capacity lump – but it is still responsive low down, allowing you enough flexibility and docility to potter at your leisure.

9,000rpm limiter still feels bonkers
9,000rpm limiter still feels bonkers
But leave it in second, flex the right foot to the floor, and there’s plenty enough torque to get you up to that 6,100rpm mark in sprightly fashion. Then comes the noticeable kick in the back as the VTEC comes into play, and the remaining 3,000rpm are dispatched in double-quick time, your ears clobbered remorselessly by the glorious scream of four pistons attempting to do the job of six. It’s utterly addictive, so you snatch at the wonderfully stumpy, slick gearlever and nail the throttle again, allowing the scenery to blur, revelling in the noise, not wanting to stop until you realise your license is quaking in its boots. Who needs low-end torque?

Snap, crackle & pop
It's the engine that's the car’s centrepiece, then. In more ways than one, in fact, as it’s mounted so far back as to in fact make the car front-mid-engined – which explains the long bonnet and somewhat cramped cockpit. It also explains that 50:50 weight distribution, which translates when you aim the nose at some corners. There’s some deadness to the steering, it has to be said; the PAS was electric, which should tell you all you need to know. But despite that it’s quick and direct, so you end up seeing past its shortcomings and enjoying the chassis.

Grin-inducing chassis rights EPAS's wrongs
Grin-inducing chassis rights EPAS's wrongs
Snappy, is it? Well, push it too hard, and yes, it will go from grip to slide pretty damn fast. But on a dry road, and in this facelifted model with its chassis revisions, there’s a predictability to it, too. It gives you fair warning before it lets go, and with familiarity comes the ability to provoke – and hold – tail-out behaviour without the oft-touted backwards exit through a hedge. The result? Endless, childish giggling, mostly. Of course, if you eschew such loonish behaviour, it feels planted and grippy, with a light, nimble front end that darts into corners eagerly.  

But is it a PH Hero? I reckon so. It’s that engine that seals it. PHers often comment that the joy of driving a petrol-engined car is found in the thrill of wringing its neck, squeezing out those last few revs and timing the change just perfectly to catch the next wave of power. Few cars satisfy that thrill in quite such spectacular fashion; few do so quite so accessibly, either, both in terms of second-hand values and running costs. The S2000 is a driver’s car unlike any other; it might not suit everyone, but what it achieves – and what it offers – is quite remarkable.



HONDA S2000
Engine:
1,997cc 4-cyl
Transmission: 5-speed manual
Power (hp): 240@8,300rpm
Torque (lb ft): 162@6,500rpm
0-62mph: 6.2 sec
Top speed: 150mph
Weight: 1,285kg
On sale: 1999-2009
Price new (2004): £26,513
Price now: £3,000-£14,500










Photography: Prime Exposures

Author
Discussion

rallye666

Original Poster:

39 posts

215 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Somebody has had their wheel re-trimmed! wink

I love mine, although its 2002 model and has caught me out a few times with its snappy back end.

It can be improved dramatically with a few mods though.

A decent geo setup made a world of difference to mine, and improved the steering feel no end.

Disconcerting passive RWS can be dialled out a rear "anti bump steer" kit.

Makes it much more confidence inspiring!


Edited by rallye666 on Friday 22 February 10:35

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

189 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Great cars. Such a bargain used buy.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
PistonHeads said:
the F20C could only muster 153lb ft (162 in the stat panel),
Would PH be able to show me another 2.0 n/a petrol engine that makes significantly more torque than this?

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 22 February 10:41


Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 22 February 10:42

ghibbett

1,900 posts

184 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
ALways liked the idea of one of these. I think they still look good today.

However I remember a fair few years back, whilst darting around in the Fabia vRS I had at the time, one of these latching onto my rear bumper as we entered a known slippery left-hander with mid corner bump. Looking back in my rear view, I was shocked at how quickly the back end came round and it lodged itself in a hedge.

omgus

7,305 posts

174 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Bugger off PH, i'm off to view two of these this weekend and i don't want any more competition for them.

Gits!

rage

Jimmy No Hands

5,008 posts

155 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
I'm planning on one of these this year or next. Ill be only spending about £4k so probably an early one. Has anyone bought one of the 'lower end' cars?

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Must feel like a pretty wild ride once you get the VTEC kicked in (y0?) and that lump singing with stats like that - are they fun below the speed limit? Always admired the looks of these, and an engine reliably revving up to 9k is pretty impressive!

Panayiotis

503 posts

208 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
I love this car, ran a 2005 for 3 years and I will echo some of the authors comments. I must say that I have not had as much fun in a car near the speed limit (still over but anyway) before nor since. I think the engine and the gearbox are a highlight, but the handling is great, but then I enjoy driving cars that have a playful nature and don't necessarily always flatter the driver.

In the hands of the inexperienced I could imagine it could be a handful. Didnt know it was the first car to have electric PAS. Its unfortunate that it did, give it some steering fell it would be an all time great I think.

petrolhead888

256 posts

206 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Hmmmm...

Never have I ever been so disappointed with a car that I really wanted to love as when I bought one of these.

I had 2 Lotus Elises previously and sold the last one as wanted to get into green laning and couldn`t justify the expense of the Elise sitting in the garage when the weather was poor and had a company car so it hardly got used....

Idea... Buy a Discovery TD5 and an S2000 as a plaything..

Bought a MK1 2000 S2000 in black, nice car and on the way home in it was really pleased with it as I sat in the red leather seats and looking at the stunning digital dashboard.

Now all my cars are always rear drive as I like to play, so at the first sign of rain I like to find a couple of deserted roundabouts and find out the handling balance so that i know what i`m dealing with.

On every car previous including a MK2 MR2 Turbo with 350 bhp I could slide the back end under complete control and learn the characteristics of the car.....

Nope not this... The S2000 snapped straight into an uncontrollable low speed spin no matter how quick I was with the steering (which gave no feel whatsoever)

oooh dear I wasnt expecting it to be as bad as this.

Tyres were all good and the correct factory bridgestones, Alignment had been recently done, hmm not good

Ok maybe its me, I shouldnt expect to be able to slide a car as its not really what I should be doing ( I just like to now and then!)

So drove it on my day off on a dry country road,

no no no.....

No feedback, no steering feel, Hard work, Stuttering in traffic (some common fault they all do that sir) what a massive disappointment.

Put a different exhaust on it to try and liven up proceedings but all that did was create an ear splitting drone in the cabin that really was not nice at all so ended back with standard exhaust.

Overall the car on paper had all the recipe I was looking for in a car and on face value seemed the perfect choice for me.

Never has a car promised so much and delivered so little so needless to say I will NEVER have another.

To people who just want to cruise around the countryside putting there foot down now and then on a straight road its a great car....

To the driving enthusiasts of this site........

Look elsewhere for your thrills

(Sorry for the negativity but I really had to pipe up about it after reading this article!)

StottyZr

6,860 posts

162 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
I would love to own an S2000, the only issue being the insurance premiums rival that of a Ferrari 360.

If the opportunity for a company insurance policy arose I would add one of these to it in a heartbeat.

Where2Guv

10,144 posts

231 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
I loved mine...

'Precise' would be the only way to describe it... Plenty of power and poise to more than keep up on PH runs with MUCH more exotic fare than the £5k purchase price would have you believe.

Utterly fantastic. I'm still gutted I sold it to a local PH'er... It overtakes me occasionally at 9k RPM somewhere and the howl still sends a shiver up my spine.

I will have another one day, but far too many silly cars at the moment!

Definite PH hero!

bicycleshorts

1,939 posts

160 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
Wanted one of these for ages. The two biggest issues for me are the "deadness" of the steering and the supposed snap happy nature.

Surely the steering feel can be fixed? Even if it meant going to a manual rack?

Are they actually that snappy? Or is it just a case of people going from fwd to 240bhp rwd and not adjusting their driving? What makes them snappy, is it the lsd, or badly set up geo, or an inherently bad chassis?

300bhp/ton said:
PistonHeads said:
the F20C could only muster 153lb ft (162 in the stat panel),
Would PH be able to show me another 2.0 n/a petrol engine that makes significantly more torque than this?
I've wondered this as well, my current mx5 only makes 100 lb ft and I've never felt a "lack of torque".

rallye666

Original Poster:

39 posts

215 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
petrolhead888 said:
Hmmmm...

Never have I ever been so disappointed with a car that I really wanted to love as when I bought one of these.

I had 2 Lotus Elises previously and sold the last one as wanted to get into green laning and couldn`t justify the expense of the Elise sitting in the garage when the weather was poor and had a company car so it hardly got used....

Idea... Buy a Discovery TD5 and an S2000 as a plaything..

Bought a MK1 2000 S2000 in black, nice car and on the way home in it was really pleased with it as I sat in the red leather seats and looking at the stunning digital dashboard.

Now all my cars are always rear drive as I like to play, so at the first sign of rain I like to find a couple of deserted roundabouts and find out the handling balance so that i know what i`m dealing with.

On every car previous including a MK2 MR2 Turbo with 350 bhp I could slide the back end under complete control and learn the characteristics of the car.....

Nope not this... The S2000 snapped straight into an uncontrollable low speed spin no matter how quick I was with the steering (which gave no feel whatsoever)

oooh dear I wasnt expecting it to be as bad as this.

Tyres were all good and the correct factory bridgestones, Alignment had been recently done, hmm not good

Ok maybe its me, I shouldnt expect to be able to slide a car as its not really what I should be doing ( I just like to now and then!)

So drove it on my day off on a dry country road,

no no no.....

No feedback, no steering feel, Hard work, Stuttering in traffic (some common fault they all do that sir) what a massive disappointment.

Put a different exhaust on it to try and liven up proceedings but all that did was create an ear splitting drone in the cabin that really was not nice at all so ended back with standard exhaust.

Overall the car on paper had all the recipe I was looking for in a car and on face value seemed the perfect choice for me.

Never has a car promised so much and delivered so little so needless to say I will NEVER have another.

To people who just want to cruise around the countryside putting there foot down now and then on a straight road its a great car....

To the driving enthusiasts of this site........

Look elsewhere for your thrills

(Sorry for the negativity but I really had to pipe up about it after reading this article!)
Sorry you didn't enjoy yours frown They aren't for everyone, but I found the factory bridgestones S-02 absolutely awful in the wet!

In no way would I ever have attempted the "wet roundabout" test!

I've got falken 452's on mine now and although its not as grippy in the dry it gives much more confidence in the wet.

Oh and the exhaust was a bad idea, K&N all the way for more induction noise.... Its never gonna burble like a v8!

Kozy

3,169 posts

217 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
A facelift is NOT an AP2, the AP2 is the US only 2.2 litre car.

rallye666

Original Poster:

39 posts

215 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
bicycleshorts said:
Wanted one of these for ages. The two biggest issues for me are the "deadness" of the steering and the supposed snap happy nature.

Surely the steering feel can be fixed? Even if it meant going to a manual rack?

Are they actually that snappy? Or is it just a case of people going from fwd to 240bhp rwd and not adjusting their driving? What makes them snappy, is it the lsd, or badly set up geo, or an inherently bad chassis?

300bhp/ton said:
PistonHeads said:
the F20C could only muster 153lb ft (162 in the stat panel),
Would PH be able to show me another 2.0 n/a petrol engine that makes significantly more torque than this?
I've wondered this as well, my current mx5 only makes 100 lb ft and I've never felt a "lack of torque".
Yep, decent "fast road" geo. Proper tyres and maybe the "anti bump steer" kit on the rear. Sorted

Still don't drive like a dick in the wet though...

re33

269 posts

163 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
petrolhead888 said:
Hmmmm...

Never have I ever been so disappointed with a car that I really wanted to love as when I bought one of these.

I had 2 Lotus Elises previously and sold the last one as wanted to get into green laning and couldn`t justify the expense of the Elise sitting in the garage when the weather was poor and had a company car so it hardly got used....

Idea... Buy a Discovery TD5 and an S2000 as a plaything..

Bought a MK1 2000 S2000 in black, nice car and on the way home in it was really pleased with it as I sat in the red leather seats and looking at the stunning digital dashboard.

Now all my cars are always rear drive as I like to play, so at the first sign of rain I like to find a couple of deserted roundabouts and find out the handling balance so that i know what i`m dealing with.

On every car previous including a MK2 MR2 Turbo with 350 bhp I could slide the back end under complete control and learn the characteristics of the car.....

Nope not this... The S2000 snapped straight into an uncontrollable low speed spin no matter how quick I was with the steering (which gave no feel whatsoever)

oooh dear I wasnt expecting it to be as bad as this.

Tyres were all good and the correct factory bridgestones, Alignment had been recently done, hmm not good

Ok maybe its me, I shouldnt expect to be able to slide a car as its not really what I should be doing ( I just like to now and then!)

So drove it on my day off on a dry country road,

no no no.....

No feedback, no steering feel, Hard work, Stuttering in traffic (some common fault they all do that sir) what a massive disappointment.

Put a different exhaust on it to try and liven up proceedings but all that did was create an ear splitting drone in the cabin that really was not nice at all so ended back with standard exhaust.

Overall the car on paper had all the recipe I was looking for in a car and on face value seemed the perfect choice for me.

Never has a car promised so much and delivered so little so needless to say I will NEVER have another.

To people who just want to cruise around the countryside putting there foot down now and then on a straight road its a great car....

To the driving enthusiasts of this site........

Look elsewhere for your thrills

(Sorry for the negativity but I really had to pipe up about it after reading this article!)
I have owned a 1999 one for a year now and completely disagree with your slide comments. Its a blast round wet roundabouts.

I think with hydraulic power steering (or possibly modern electric) the s2000 would have been one of the best cars ever made. The engine, gearbox and chassis are great. the lack of steering feedback is not.

Where2Guv

10,144 posts

231 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
And to the guy that had one that wouldn't drift... There's alignment, and then there is 'alignment'.

Found it was very sensitive to tyre pressures too... It took some playing to get it perfect, but that's half the fun of owning a sports car of any type... Making it your own.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
bicycleshorts said:
300bhp/ton said:
PistonHeads said:
the F20C could only muster 153lb ft (162 in the stat panel),
Would PH be able to show me another 2.0 n/a petrol engine that makes significantly more torque than this?
I've wondered this as well, my current mx5 only makes 100 lb ft and I've never felt a "lack of torque".
I can perfectly understand that in a relative sense it may feel like it lacks low end grunt, either when compared to other 240hp vehicles (usually forced induction or larger capacity), or if you directly compare the HP output at high rpm vs low rpm.


But in pure engineering terms the S2k makes a lot of torque for it's physical displacement. And VTEC/iVTEC specifically are there to promote this high torque output at high rpm, thus making high power output for the displacement.

omgus

7,305 posts

174 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
StottyZr said:
I would love to own an S2000, the only issue being the insurance premiums rival that of a Ferrari 360.

If the opportunity for a company insurance policy arose I would add one of these to it in a heartbeat.
confused

I found it to be very cheap on insurance quotes over the last few days, less than a 3.0 Z4 and 2/3s that of a boxster.

Scrof

197 posts

153 months

Friday 22nd February 2013
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I can perfectly understand that in a relative sense it may feel like it lacks low end grunt, either when compared to other 240hp vehicles (usually forced induction or larger capacity), or if you directly compare the HP output at high rpm vs low rpm.


But in pure engineering terms the S2k makes a lot of torque for it's physical displacement. And VTEC/iVTEC specifically are there to promote this high torque output at high rpm, thus making high power output for the displacement.
I agree with this, and I suppose I should have written 'only' in quotes - my point was that it seems low when you consider its level of power. But as I said, I certainly found it didn't feel breathless at low revs; indeed, it was remarkably smooth and responsive when you consider just how manic it gets higher up the rev range.

AP1/AP2 point in a previous response also noted, by the way - altered to reflect that. I had been told before writing this that the facelift car was known as the AP2, without the differentiation between US and UK facelifts being made clear!