Wednesday 27th February 2013

Evoque introduces first nine-speed 'box

How many gears in your wagon? Nine, should you wish, if you choose a new Evoque

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Land Rover has announced that it’ll use the Evoque to debut ZF’s new nine-speed transmission, known as the 9HP. It’ll replace the six-speed automatic that was previously available as an option on most Evoque models.

Nine ratios - the more the merrier?

The 9HP will feature a plethora of technological wizardry which, Land Rover says, will improve the automatic version of the Evoque considerably. More gears, it says, mean smaller steps between the ratios, resulting in improved response – ZF claims that the new gearbox’s changes are “below the threshold of perception” – as well as shift quality and refinement. There’s also a higher top gear that reduces fuel consumption as well as noise.

Nevertheless, Land Rover says that the 9HP is “extremely robust”, and as such that it “perfectly complements Land Rover’s rugged all-terrain ability”. As you’d expect, it’s also being touted as offering a “significant improvement in fuel economy and a corresponsding reduction in CO2 emissions.”

All of which sounds just marvellous. But there is of course, just one issue we have with it. And we reckon you’ve probably guessed what it is by now. Nine ratios? Really? Seven seemed quite a few when Mercedes debuted the 7G-Tronic back in 2003; eight seemed a little excessive with ZF’s last effort, as good as it is. Nine... well, it could be a case of 'the more, the merrier', and the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, but we can’t help but wonder where it’ll stop. Will we end up with a 20-speed by 2020?

[cathalm]

Oh poo, just ordered one with the 6 speed. Any Idea when this new box is supposed to be starting? 9 speeds is daft but I suppose in full auto it should be okay.

[jon-]

Assuming the box is reliable, and these cars are driven in auto 99% of the time, the more cogs the better.

If they're smart they've probably got "1st" locked off as a fake low range gear, and the car usually starts in second. This will improve the offroad ability of the... oh wait.

[Bear Phils]

What is the need for all these gears? It's rocketed up the last few years, when will it end?

[Speed_Demon]

jon- said:

Assuming the box is reliable, and these cars are driven in auto 99% of the time, the more cogs the better.

If they're smart they've probably got "1st" locked off as a fake low range gear, and the car usually starts in second. This will improve the offroad ability of the... oh wait.

[goron59]

The more ratios you have, the more you can be in the sweet spot for power/torque, but it means you change more often, so more time spent not having any real torque delivery at all. There has to come a point where that becomes significant.

9HP is silly name too.

[cookie1600]

Surely now this is getting daft? Aren't you better off with a well designed, robust CVT type arrangement for this kind of vehicle?

[CraigyMc]

Bear Phils said:

What is the need for all these gears? It's rocketed up the last few years, when will it end?

Competition with cyclists.

C

[Evo]

The seven speed box in our E Class is a peach, get it on a motorway at more enthusiastic speeds and it makes for a relaxing ride sitting in seventh, just wish we'd gone for the 350cdi lol

[Killer2005]

Bear Phils said:

What is the need for all these gears? It's rocketed up the last few years, when will it end?

It's a silly trend trying to emulate the Fast N Furious films

[alangla]

Surely this is going to be doing block changes a lot of the time - modern truck boxes AFAIK tend to have about 12-20 gears & start in second, shuffling up/down 2-3 gears at a time.

Slightly related - I was on a coach a week or so ago with one of the Volvo automated manual boxes fitted. Driver had to make a turn out of a tight car park onto a 70mph dual carriageway, so was foot to the floor as soon as it was straightened up - acceleration was glacially slow & it felt like it was changing gear for more time than actually powering. I reckon a 6 speed manual would have got us up to a safe (read 40mph+) speed faster.

Overall, I really don't see the point - on something that's road bound & likely to only be used in the 0-80/90mph speed range I reckon 6 gears is about optimum. For off road, a splitter is probably more useful than extra cogs.

[E38Ross]

i don't understand all the negative hype on PH.

better economy
better acceleration
the extra mass will be totally negligible

and (having been in some cars with the 8 speed box) the changes are SO smooth and unnoticeable i don't see the harm in having 20 if you can't feel the gear changes.

So, why is it too many? or would everyone on PH have us using 3 speed auto gearboxes because it's "enough"?

genuine question by the way

[rajkohli81]

love, love, love the 8 speed in my 640d. Imperceptable changes, even on downshift.

My biggest criticism of the Evoque, having test driven it, was the fussy, slow and jerky 6sp auto box as compared to the 8 speeder in the XF which shares the same 2.2d powerplant.

[wheedler]

Just one more thing to go wrong imo.

[thescamper]

I only have a simple brain but surely as the number of ratios gets higher the closer in real world terms it becomes to CVT anyway.

[rajkohli81]

cookie1600 said:

Surely now this is getting daft? Aren't you better off with a well designed, robust CVT type arrangement for this kind of vehicle?

much prefer the 8 spd box in my 640d to the horrible, groany CVT in my RX.. I find CVTs just irritating and unnatural to drive

[Evo]

E38Ross said:

i don't understand all the negative hype on PH.

better economy
better acceleration
the extra mass will be totally negligible

and (having been in some cars with the 8 speed box) the changes are SO smooth and unnoticeable i don't see the harm in having 20 if you can't feel the gear changes.

So, why is it too many? or would everyone on PH have us using 3 speed auto gearboxes because it's "enough"?

genuine question by the way

Spot on, my wife took our 2012 E Class upto London and back and averaged just under 60mpg, when I drive it's more like 35

[goron59]

In my old B7 RS4, if I just couldn't be arsed, I'd pull away in 2nd, then just drop it into 6th. Only needed two forward gears

[fatboy b]

wheedler said:

Just one more thing to go wrong imo.

You do realise that these boxes are ZF don't you? You know - the ones that Audi, BMW, Merc use.

[benzpassion]

Alex Robbins said:

EVOQUE INTRODUCES FIRST NINE-SPEED 'BOX

Are you/JLR's press people really claiming that the Evoque will be the first vehicle worldwide to use ZF's new 9-speed gearbox?

Have you/they not heard of the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee?

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/22/2014-jeep-chero...

Do you not know that Chrysler/Jeep/Fiat Group have been working with ZF too, on the first usage of ZF's new 9-speed for FWD/All-wheel drive installation?

Did you know that as well as the 2014MY Jeep Cherokee the 2013 Dodge Dart is slated to get the new ZF 9-speeder later this year too?

If you do know that, and know that the new Jeep Cherokee is expected to hit US showrooms in the Fall of this year, and that Land Rover will not get the 9-speed-fitted Evoque into showrooms until early to mid 2014 at the earliest, and that their claim to be the 'First' rests solely only on them showing a supposed 9-speed Evoque prototype at Geneva next week, why are you even deigning to run this ridiculous story?

To put it clearly, Jeep are/will be the 'First'.

Land Rover are doing their usual spoiler operation schtick, deceiving the gullible, abetted by compliant hacks.

Edited by benzpassion on Wednesday 27th February 11:57

[goron59]

thescamper said:

I only have a simple brain but surely as the number of ratios gets higher the closer in real world terms it becomes to CVT anyway.

With a CVT, you could synthesize 43 ratios with a software upgrade