Worth upgrading IMS bearing on apparently healthy Carrera?

[scoobysnacks2]

I'm seriously considering buying a late 996 or early 997 Carrera and I was wondering if it's advisable to upgrade the IMS bearing on a car with no apparent problems or could this cause more harm than good for any reason (not just the £1.5k of harm to my pocket...)?

What do the experts like Autofarm and Hartech recommend?

Any thoughts appreciated.

[mollytherocker]

I certainly would and get the clutch changed at the same time.

But then, I wouldn't buy one in the first place, so my advice is irrelevant.

[Mousem40]

The LN bearing is 'lifed'. So anyone fitting one is guaranteeing their IMS bearing will die at some stage.

So instead of taking a ~5% chance that your engine will blow you're paying someone good money to make that ~5% an absolute certainty! Then let's say you sell the car before it's life is up. Do you then tell the owner your bearing will need replacing at X thousands of pounds in X miles? Or just let it ride? And who's to say the people making the LN bearing will exist then or not triple their price?

It's absolute madness.

Either get a warranty, or get an IMS Guardian.

[Shurv]

Hartech don't recommend changing the IMS on a car that is running perfectly well,unless the clutch is being done, so as not to waste money just doing the IMS. They say that the chance of it failing is slim and just drive the car.I think consensus is that the IMS guardian gives so little warning , it's not worth the expense.

[Magic919]

I wouldn't buy an early 997, but I did have a 996 and got the LN Engineering bearing fitted. Also did flywheel and clutch.

The single row kits have failed in a few instances. You could hold fire for their new version that lacks ball bearings and should work 'for life'.

[Hilux2400]

I have a 996 C2 2003 tiptronic that has done 46K. I have been wondering about the same thing. However, I have decided to fit a magnetic sump drain plug and to reduce the mileage between oil changes. If the bearing does start to break up it will shed metal particles into the sump which hopefully this plug will collect. This option should give some sort of early warning. I know these stray metal particles might also be caught by the filter, but I think the oil pump scavenges the sump before it delivers oil to the filter therefore collecting them before they enter the oil pump might be a good idea.

Does anyone have any views on this option?

H

[Roberty]

I recently uprated the IMS in my 986 Boxster S.

I was changing the gearbox so uprated the IMS, replaced the RMS seal, clutch and dual mass flywheel whilst the box was off.

Had I not been changing the box I wouldn't have bothered with any of it.

Car had 100k miles on it and had no sign of any of it needing to be done, other than the gearbox swap!

If you need to get the box off to replace the clutch or your RMS seal is weeping badly then the IMS upgrade is a no brainer whilst your their but as a purely preventative maintenance it's a very expensive and most likely unneeded mod.

[cuz3003]

To echo the above I just had my clutch and IMS replaced on my Boxster S with 66k miles. Bearing that came out looked new especially compared to the wobbly bearing which came out of a 996 of the same age a couple of weeks ago when metal was found in the oil filter.
If you buy a car and there is no evidence of a clutch being done, budget for this and get the IMS done at the same time and you will have a great car (providing all other things have been looked after during its life) and peace of mind to enjoy it as it should be!

[550Anniv]

...This is something of interest to me. I have a 2004 Boxster Anniversary which has done 30,000 miles. The clutch is fine and there are no oil leaks from the rear main.

I am a normal guy doing a normal job. I had to save for the Boxster and its my pride and joy. I have a fund to cover servicing as well as a back up of approx £1000 for larger jobs, a engine failure costing £7000 upwards is not something I have the funds for down the 'back of the sofa'

I have been in contact with Baz at Hartech about replacment of the IMS, his reply was to simply drive it and enjoy it and the chances of it happening are slim.
The Boxster is a third car and I only use it in summer months, so it doesnt cover a huge mileage. I change the oil and filter every year and always have the old filter back. I then give the filter a very close inspection and check for any magnetic particals..up to now there has been nothing, so I guess all is well with the IMS bearing?(famous last words)

As service time is getting close, I may speak to my local Porsche Centre concerning their thoughts about replacing the IMS and a cost. But my concern is there, am I swopping a poor design bearing for another poor design bearing?

I did look into the IMS Gardian, but I was not over impressed to be honest.

I do wonder though if the whole IMS issue has been hyped up by the internet. I am sure there is a issue, however, is it as bad as everyone makes out? (or is that a whole new can of worms)

I would be interested in getting a magnetic sump plug though as I didnt realise it was a standard plug. Any ideas where I can get one of these?

I hope this has been a usefull post.
Rob

[scoobysnacks2]

Thanks guys, some great info and advice so far. The magnetic sump plug sounds like a very good idea which could (should?) provide an early warning with little expenditure.

[cuz3003]

Yep looking at my bearing when it came out it certainly didn't look like it was failing (I have kept it as a souvenir!) and my clutch felt fine. Seeing the bearing which came out of the 996 would of caused me many sleepless nights if I hadn't had the work done.
However I am in the same boat as many owners in that I love my car but couldn't afford an engine rebuild if it let go and with my car having 66k miles and no evidence of clutch I went for it after seeing the video where a guy caught his ims failing in a boxster of similar age and mileage to mine. Turns out the clutch was well worn and the car now feels fantastic.
I used the Pelican Parts IMS replacement which they recommend should be replaced every 40k miles with the clutch in their blurb which cost approx. £180 shipped form the states with all charges paid so not a great deal more IF you are getting the clutch done as well.

[Richard Hamilton]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If you follow the instructions from LN, hte bearing will need replacing as a service item. The contents of an email I got from LN when I asked the question:

LN Engineering said:

Hello Richard,

Thank you for the inquiry. We recommend it as a service item every 4 years or 50,000 miles.

Sincerely,

Tammy E. Hellings
LN Engineering

[edc]

Don't forget there is a new oil fed LN bearing. Does the same service interval apply?

[Richard Hamilton]

My point was simply that the LN Engineering ceramic bearing is not a "fit and forget" solution, which most people think it is.

@edc - If you are referring the the IMS Solution developed by Flat6 Innovations, and distrubuted by LN Engineering (when it becomes available) then I believe this is considered (by the developer) to be fit and forget.

[mollytherocker]

I didn't realise that these bearings were only a 40k solution.

Is the Hartech one the same too?

[Roberty]

550Anniv said:

I do wonder though if the whole IMS issue has been hyped up by the internet. I am sure there is a issue, however, is it as bad as everyone makes out? (or is that a whole new can of worms)

I think that's exactly it, yes there is an issue but is it as bad as the internet forums would make you beleive? No not at all.


My car had covered 100k miles when I changed mine and it looked like new.

At 30k miles and with regular oil changes, annual at least I would would wait until it needs a clutch and get it done then.

I wouldn't recommend getting the Porsche dealership to do it though if your on a budget!

[Magic919]

edc said:

Don't forget there is a new oil fed LN bearing. Does the same service interval apply?

As mentioned above, the new bearing is meant to be for the life of the car, I.e.fit and forget. Didn't think it was out yet.

In terms of the current ball bearing type, they only claim about a dozen failures. That's probably a fairly low instance, but you'd have to guess how many have been fitted.

[Mousem40]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

What makes you say the original bearing is not fit and forget? In 95% of cases it's just that and in fact evidence suggests that the higher mileage your car the less likely (not more as you've suggested) it is to collapse.. In 100% of the LN bearing cases it's not that. It's a guaranteed ticking time bomb as stated by LN in its own website

http://www.imsretrofit.com/ims-101/ near the bottom

'Knowing the single row bearing is undersized for this application, we recommend replacement every 4 years or 50,000 miles'


So why would you pay for a bearing that after its life is over, will have the owner either paying for another one (if the owner/new owner even knows he has it) or crossing his fingers hoping every day it won't detonate? Madness

Go get an IMS guardian at a fraction of the cost and save yourself the aggravation and unnecessary expense.

[Mousem40]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Very simply a huge amount of evidence tells us so.
If as you claim, the Porsche bearing is rubbish, then in a huge proportion of these cars the bearing would collapse and the engine would quickly detonate.

We have a lot of evidence to suggest that only around 5% of these engines detonate, throughout their lifespans. Not always caused just by the IMS bearing failing.

So please, do enlighten us as to the evidence you have that suggests otherwise.

[scoobysnacks2]

On balance then, it sounds like the best advice is to wait until you need a clutch or RMS leak fixing before replacing the IMS bearing.

Obviously there are risks in doing this, but perhaps they're not quite big enough to warrant the potentially unnecessary cost for most of us.

I think that's what I'd do, along with buying the car from a good specialist with a warranty and then getting on a maintenance plan before that warranty expires...

Alternatively I suppose I could just buy a Turbo :-)