RE: Mazda RX-8: PH buying guide
Thursday 28th March 2013
A four-seat coupe from the early part of the century with 231hp and a 0-62mph in the low six-second bracket: has to be a BMW 330Ci, right? Wrong. It’s the Mazda RX-8, a car that is now so affordable it has to be tempting even for those who might otherwise be wary of its rotary engine and the reputation that has built up around it.
Cared-for RX-8s needn't be problematicMuch of the hype surrounding the RX-8’s thirst for expensive oil is undeserved, though the twin-rotor engine does need more owner involvement than many modern sports cars. If you’re prepared to make this very small sacrifice, the RX-8 can deliver 0-62mph in 6.4 seconds for the 231hp model, or 7.2 seconds for the less potent 192hp version.
Four-seat configuration is a selling pointThe other key selling point of the RX-8 was its four-seat cabin and the easy access to the rear seats thanks to the ‘free style’ suicide back doors. They hinge open in the opposite direction to the front pair, creating a pillarless opening to rear seats that can genuinely accommodate adults.
Mazda RX-8: PH buying guide
The quirky coupe that's rewarding to drive and not as painful to own as you might think
Cared-for RX-8s needn't be problematic
Search for Mazda RX-8s here
By seeking out a cared-for example that has enjoyed careful owners and has a fastidious service record, many RX-8 owners report much lower oil consumption than legend would have you believe. Mazda recommends checking the oil level after every second fill of the tank, which is sound advice. When new, Mazda reckoned the RX-8 would use around 250ml of oil per 1000 miles, but most cars will use less.
Four-seat configuration is a selling point
The RX-8 was launched in the UK in 2003, with Mazda pocketing 1,000 pre-arrival deposits, and the car continued through to 2010. It was offered with 192- and 231hp versions of the Renesis rotary engine, costing £20,000 and £22,000 respectively when new. By the time the R3 model was discontinued, Mazda had sold more than 17,000 RX-8s in the UK.
Find a well looked-after Mazda RX-8 and you will enjoy one of the best driving experiences for this class of car. Best of all, it need not break the bank as RX-8s are available from £2,000 in reasonable nick, all the way to £10,000 for late model 2010 R3s with low miles.
Owner's view:
"Owning the RX8 is a lot like marmite. Fortunately I like marmite! I went into the car very open minded knowing all the horror stories related to them. It has not been cheap so far but for a nearly 8 year old sports car what can you expect?"
Julien Bicknell
Buying guide contents:
Introduction
Powertrain
Rolling Chassis
Body
Interior
Search for Mazda RX-8s here
Discussion
This feature is a bit too magazine like in it's approach IMO. When magazines have articles on buying used (CAR had one on these and RX-7s a couple of years ago) and they have a list of owner club and model specialist URLs it's a bit of a hint all the information you need is online.
It's also a bit flaky when magazines consult owners clubs and they then leave an important, juicy bit from the article that subsequently appears in the magazine, especially when it's a well known problem that can kill motors, though that article was about a normal combustion engined car and not something as exotic as an RX-8.
From reaidng online I've gathered that part of the issue with the ignition is the unburnt fuel washing the lubrication from the rotor tips leading to wear which leads to compression and starting issues. I am not sure that's clear from the third paragraph of the powertrain section.
In the piece Dale Lomas did when he got his he mentioned that some owners put 2 stroke oil in the take with the fuel, pre-mixing and rigging up a separate oil feed so the engine uses that rather than using what's in the sump:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/25094.htm
Seems Dale didn't procure or fit the sohn adpator before his splendid looking RX-8 died at the ring.
As a low mileage driver these have some appeal there may be something useful to be gleaned from the rest of the text.
In the CAR article on them they said Mazda in the US opened a facility up to take back and repair RX-8 motors that died prematurely. They took 'ownership' of the problem and provided a solution there.
It's also a bit flaky when magazines consult owners clubs and they then leave an important, juicy bit from the article that subsequently appears in the magazine, especially when it's a well known problem that can kill motors, though that article was about a normal combustion engined car and not something as exotic as an RX-8.
From reaidng online I've gathered that part of the issue with the ignition is the unburnt fuel washing the lubrication from the rotor tips leading to wear which leads to compression and starting issues. I am not sure that's clear from the third paragraph of the powertrain section.
In the piece Dale Lomas did when he got his he mentioned that some owners put 2 stroke oil in the take with the fuel, pre-mixing and rigging up a separate oil feed so the engine uses that rather than using what's in the sump:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/25094.htm
Seems Dale didn't procure or fit the sohn adpator before his splendid looking RX-8 died at the ring.
As a low mileage driver these have some appeal there may be something useful to be gleaned from the rest of the text.
In the CAR article on them they said Mazda in the US opened a facility up to take back and repair RX-8 motors that died prematurely. They took 'ownership' of the problem and provided a solution there.
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 28th March 13:48
big_boz said:
three words....
Rotary Revs Batley
20 minutes speaking to the owner will convince any non believer.
good advice on his website. what he does omit though is the shutting down procedure for a cold engine, which is to hold the revs at 4k rpm for about 7-10secs and switch off holding the throttle at that position. in 6 years i NEVER flooded my engine.Rotary Revs Batley
20 minutes speaking to the owner will convince any non believer.
i gave away a rather good Rex to someone of a
and regret it to this.cracking cars.
Edited by slinky on Thursday 28th March 18:08
whilst i really enjoyed driving our RX8 and loved it looks, it did need a rebuild after 44k and always hovered around 20mpg.
if you can live with that then they are a very good, surprisingly spacious coupe
...do fancy trying an R3 RX8 though, look very very nice. (less engine troubles as well i believe)
if you can live with that then they are a very good, surprisingly spacious coupe
...do fancy trying an R3 RX8 though, look very very nice. (less engine troubles as well i believe)
velocgee said:
big_boz said:
three words....
Rotary Revs Batley
20 minutes speaking to the owner will convince any non believer.
good advice on his website. what he does omit though is the shutting down procedure for a cold engine, which is to hold the revs at 4k rpm for about 7-10secs and switch off holding the throttle at that position. in 6 years i NEVER flooded my engine.Rotary Revs Batley
20 minutes speaking to the owner will convince any non believer.
i gave away a rather good Rex to someone of a c-u-n-t and regret it to this.
cracking cars.
My neighbor has one, and says he gets funny looks when he follows the proper shut down procedure if he has just nipped up the shops or to get fuel.
I have a burning itch to own one, Fingers crossed i get the job i'm interviewing for next week, I will be straight down to see Ben.
big_boz said:
Pretty sure its on his website somewhere.
My neighbor has one, and says he gets funny looks when he follows the proper shut down procedure if he has just nipped up the shops or to get fuel.
I have a burning itch to own one, Fingers crossed i get the job i'm interviewing for next week, I will be straight down to see Ben.
I always make sure mine's got warm. I'm not convinced about the 4K rev solution. My neighbor has one, and says he gets funny looks when he follows the proper shut down procedure if he has just nipped up the shops or to get fuel.
I have a burning itch to own one, Fingers crossed i get the job i'm interviewing for next week, I will be straight down to see Ben.
I've had it 6 years in June and I still love driving it.
I did need an engine rebuild at 69,000 miles though (rear bearing failed, possibly because an engine mount broke) - Goes like stink now.
Some hot hatches ARE as quick, some are quicker in fact, but that's not the point (and if you think it is, this is the wrong car for you) - Very little (and nothing with the same balance of price, performance and practicality) drives as well.
I get around 21MPG, though, so fuel consumption will be the killer for some people.
They don't have HUGE bills (a rebuilt engine is 2 grand with a two year warranty) and aside from fuel are cheap to run (servicing is cheap), but if you buy a rotary engined car for £2K expecting it to be a good one, you deserve all you get really.
M
Edited by marcosgt on Thursday 28th March 14:28
big_boz said:
Pretty sure its on his website somewhere.
My neighbor has one, and says he gets funny looks when he follows the proper shut down procedure if he has just nipped up the shops or to get fuel.
I have a burning itch to own one, Fingers crossed i get the job i'm interviewing for next week, I will be straight down to see Ben.
Who is Ben?My neighbor has one, and says he gets funny looks when he follows the proper shut down procedure if he has just nipped up the shops or to get fuel.
I have a burning itch to own one, Fingers crossed i get the job i'm interviewing for next week, I will be straight down to see Ben.
Having been considering one for a while now having dropped my annual mileage to about 6k...this appears to be the given thinking on a cheap one......
60k+ is the danger zone for the engine to go pop, cheap ones start at about 2k, but you are then at the mercy of previous owners. Or as stated a full ported an rebuilt engine is c£2.5k WITH A WARRANTY, and you can pick up a good condition one with a popped engine for a grand. £3.5k for a car with that level of performance and handling and a warranty for the engine, screams value to me.
60k+ is the danger zone for the engine to go pop, cheap ones start at about 2k, but you are then at the mercy of previous owners. Or as stated a full ported an rebuilt engine is c£2.5k WITH A WARRANTY, and you can pick up a good condition one with a popped engine for a grand. £3.5k for a car with that level of performance and handling and a warranty for the engine, screams value to me.
Even more than most cheap performance cars, it's worth doing some research pre-purchase so that you know what to look for, and how to look after it once you do buy:
http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/
http://mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/index.php
http://www.rx8ownersclub.co.uk/forum/
http://mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/index.php
SuperchargedVR6 said:
250ml oil per 1000 miles is pretty good. Many VAG TFSI owners would love such frugal oil consumption 
Really? I had an A3 2.0TFSI quattro for 6 years and all it needed was a top up (less that a litre) between services in the first two years, after which it settled into zero oil consumption.My sister's RX-8 was similarly frugal with oil once it was run in. I guess it's pot luck whether or not you get a good one.
Another recommendation for Ben at Rotary Rev's ... He compression checked my rotors on my last RX8 and they were all excellent results, I was a happy bunny lol
The RX8 owners club isn't the friendliest (although has a wealth of knowledge) of forums though and I was banned quite randomly after failing to update my subscription, no warning, no reminder ... Just a full lifetime ban ... Very friendly lol
The RX8 owners club isn't the friendliest (although has a wealth of knowledge) of forums though and I was banned quite randomly after failing to update my subscription, no warning, no reminder ... Just a full lifetime ban ... Very friendly lol
First, I think one comment in particular in the article is definitely inaccurate. You DO NOT want to use the Mazda recommended 5W30 Dexylia mineral oil in this car at all. It's a horrible oil and you are better off using a proper semi-synthetic or full dino oil that is at least 10W30. Also, NEVER USE FULL SYNTHETIC OIL. That is a huge mistake. The cheap dino stuff is much better for the rotary.
Second, it must be pointed out that the chance of you being able to get a decent running RX8 that does not have low compression issues for less than about £4,500 is pretty low. I'm not saying that it can't be done but there are too many people selling RX8's out there for anywhere from £2,000 to £4,500 with motors that have compression results below the minimum 6.9 specification, basically meaning that the motor is on its way out. You should never ever buy an RX8 without a compression test done by a qualified rotary mechanic. Also, warm start issues reported in a lot of ads as being normal is DEFINITELY NOT NORMAL. This is a sign of a compression issue and a faster starter motor can hide this fact, so be wary. Hence, ALWAYS get a compression test done.
Third, the RX8 community is very helpful and the few shops in the UK that specialize in the RX8 are true lifesavers. These people can help you understand everything before going out and buying a used one. Pleaes sign up to rx8ownersclub.co.uk and/or rx8club.com and browse through their buying guides and research as much as you can on the intricacies of the car to help you make an informed decision.
Fourth, no doubt the best route to go if you want to spend under £5,000 is to buy a car with a bad motor and get the engine rebuilt by a professional like Hayward Rotary or Rotary Revs. These guys will completely rebuild your engine and offer a 2-3 year 30,000 mile warranty for under £3,000. The warranty even covers track days so long as you follow the warranty's very specific instructions about modifying the car, the type of oil used, keeping track of your service history, etc. Going down this route will cost you about £5,000 to £6,500 because an RX8 with a bad motor will go for £1,000-£1,500, the rebuild is £2,500-£3,000, and any extra miscellaneous parts that may be needed during the rebuild (like a catalytic converter, clutch and oil cooler lines) could be up to another £1,500-£2,000.
Fifth, the RX8 is a high maintenance vehicle. You can't and should not drive it like every other car. For one, do not drive the RX8 on short trips as the engine will not properly warm up and as the article says you should not shut it off when it's cold. Another thing to remember is that you should rev it to 8,000-9,000 rpms at least once per driving session to expel the un-burnt carbon that gets stuck in the engine. This will keep your seals alive longer and keep compression higher. Don't worry, whether or not you rev the car to the limit the mpg will still be about 20. Finally, check your oil at all times. The car will not use much more oil than your typical BMW or whatever when driven normally but will use a significant amount if you have just tracked it for the last two hours, so best advice is to check it before setting out or every time you fill it up.
Sixth, the RX8 does not make 228bhp. The highest dynos recorded are about 200-205 bhp on a stock motor but most will dyno between 180bhp and 195bhp. This might stop you from buying the car but even with the limited bhp figure it still tends to keep up with faster cars due to its light weight and the way the engine makes power.
Seventh, in my opinion the RX8 can be a very reliable car when properly taken car of and maintenance costs on a healthy motor will not be much more than your typical vehicle. I wouldn't use this car as a vehicle which will do more than 5,000 - 8,000 miles per year due to mpg but it can be done. This is a perfect car for the weekend and the track and the price of entry under £10,000 for even the newest R3's which have better reliability due to a few tweaks to the engine is a steal for such an enjoyable car to drive.
Second, it must be pointed out that the chance of you being able to get a decent running RX8 that does not have low compression issues for less than about £4,500 is pretty low. I'm not saying that it can't be done but there are too many people selling RX8's out there for anywhere from £2,000 to £4,500 with motors that have compression results below the minimum 6.9 specification, basically meaning that the motor is on its way out. You should never ever buy an RX8 without a compression test done by a qualified rotary mechanic. Also, warm start issues reported in a lot of ads as being normal is DEFINITELY NOT NORMAL. This is a sign of a compression issue and a faster starter motor can hide this fact, so be wary. Hence, ALWAYS get a compression test done.
Third, the RX8 community is very helpful and the few shops in the UK that specialize in the RX8 are true lifesavers. These people can help you understand everything before going out and buying a used one. Pleaes sign up to rx8ownersclub.co.uk and/or rx8club.com and browse through their buying guides and research as much as you can on the intricacies of the car to help you make an informed decision.
Fourth, no doubt the best route to go if you want to spend under £5,000 is to buy a car with a bad motor and get the engine rebuilt by a professional like Hayward Rotary or Rotary Revs. These guys will completely rebuild your engine and offer a 2-3 year 30,000 mile warranty for under £3,000. The warranty even covers track days so long as you follow the warranty's very specific instructions about modifying the car, the type of oil used, keeping track of your service history, etc. Going down this route will cost you about £5,000 to £6,500 because an RX8 with a bad motor will go for £1,000-£1,500, the rebuild is £2,500-£3,000, and any extra miscellaneous parts that may be needed during the rebuild (like a catalytic converter, clutch and oil cooler lines) could be up to another £1,500-£2,000.
Fifth, the RX8 is a high maintenance vehicle. You can't and should not drive it like every other car. For one, do not drive the RX8 on short trips as the engine will not properly warm up and as the article says you should not shut it off when it's cold. Another thing to remember is that you should rev it to 8,000-9,000 rpms at least once per driving session to expel the un-burnt carbon that gets stuck in the engine. This will keep your seals alive longer and keep compression higher. Don't worry, whether or not you rev the car to the limit the mpg will still be about 20. Finally, check your oil at all times. The car will not use much more oil than your typical BMW or whatever when driven normally but will use a significant amount if you have just tracked it for the last two hours, so best advice is to check it before setting out or every time you fill it up.
Sixth, the RX8 does not make 228bhp. The highest dynos recorded are about 200-205 bhp on a stock motor but most will dyno between 180bhp and 195bhp. This might stop you from buying the car but even with the limited bhp figure it still tends to keep up with faster cars due to its light weight and the way the engine makes power.
Seventh, in my opinion the RX8 can be a very reliable car when properly taken car of and maintenance costs on a healthy motor will not be much more than your typical vehicle. I wouldn't use this car as a vehicle which will do more than 5,000 - 8,000 miles per year due to mpg but it can be done. This is a perfect car for the weekend and the track and the price of entry under £10,000 for even the newest R3's which have better reliability due to a few tweaks to the engine is a steal for such an enjoyable car to drive.
Edited by cib24 on Thursday 28th March 16:29
cib24 said:
First, I think one comment in particular in the article is definitely inaccurate. You DO NOT want to use the Mazda recommended 5W30 Dexylia mineral oil in this car at all. It's a horrible oil and you are better off using a proper semi-synthetic or full dino oil that is at least 10W30. Also, NEVER USE FULL SYNTHETIC OIL. That is a huge mistake. The cheap dino stuff is much better for the rotary.
Second, it must be pointed out that the chance of you being able to get a decent running RX8 that does not have low compression issues for less than about £4,500 is pretty low. I'm not saying that it can't be done but there are too many people selling RX8's out there for anywhere from £2,000 to £4,500 with motors that have compression results below the minimum 6.9 specification, basically meaning that the motor is on its way out. You should never ever buy an RX8 without a compression test done by a qualified rotary mechanic. Also, warm start issues reported in a lot of ads as being normal is DEFINITELY NOT NORMAL. This is a sign of a compression issue and a faster starter motor can hide this fact, so be wary. Hence, ALWAYS get a compression test done.
Third, the RX8 community is very helpful and the few shops in the UK that specialize in the RX8 are true lifesavers. These people can help you understand everything before going out and buying a used one. Pleaes sign up to rx8ownersclub.co.uk and/or rx8club.com and browse through their buying guides and research as much as you can on the intricacies of the car to help you make an informed decision.
Fourth, no doubt the best route to go if you want to spend under £5,000 is to buy a car with a bad motor and get the engine rebuilt by a professional like Hayward Rotary or Rotary Revs. These guys will completely rebuild your engine and offer a 2-3 year 30,000 mile warranty for under £3,000. The warranty even covers track days so long as you follow the warranty's very specific instructions about modifying the car, the type of oil used, keeping track of your service history, etc. Going down this route will cost you about £5,000 to £6,500 because an RX8 with a bad motor will go for £1,000-£1,500, the rebuild is £2,500-£3,000, and any extra miscellaneous parts that may be needed during the rebuild (like a catalytic converter, clutch and oil cooler lines) could be up to another £1,500-£2,000.
Fifth, the RX8 is a high maintenance vehicle. You can't and should not drive it like every other car. For one, do not drive the RX8 on short trips as the engine will not properly warm up and as the article says you should not shut it off when it's cold. Another thing to remember is that you should rev it to 8,000-9,000 rpms at least once per driving session to expel the un-burnt carbon that gets stuck in the engine. This will keep your seals alive longer and keep compression higher. Don't worry, whether or not you rev the car to the limit the mpg will still be about 20. Finally, check your oil at all times. The car will not use much more oil than your typical BMW or whatever when driven normally but will use a significant amount if you have just tracked it for the last two hours, so best advice is to check it before setting out or every time you fill it up.
Sixth, the RX8 does not make 228bhp. The highest dynos recorded are about 200-205 bhp on a stock motor but most will dyno between 180bhp and 195bhp. This might stop you from buying the car but even with the limited bhp figure it still tends to keep up with faster cars due to its light weight and the way the engine makes power.
Seventh, in my opinion the RX8 can be a very reliable car when properly taken car of and maintenance costs on a healthy motor will not be much more than your typical vehicle. I wouldn't use this car as a vehicle which will do more than 5,000 - 8,000 miles per year due to mpg but it can be done. This is a perfect car for the weekend and the track and the price of entry under £10,000 for even the newest R3's which have better reliability due to a few tweaks to the engine is a steal for such an enjoyable car to drive.
Sounds like the automtive equivalent of Gremlins, Second, it must be pointed out that the chance of you being able to get a decent running RX8 that does not have low compression issues for less than about £4,500 is pretty low. I'm not saying that it can't be done but there are too many people selling RX8's out there for anywhere from £2,000 to £4,500 with motors that have compression results below the minimum 6.9 specification, basically meaning that the motor is on its way out. You should never ever buy an RX8 without a compression test done by a qualified rotary mechanic. Also, warm start issues reported in a lot of ads as being normal is DEFINITELY NOT NORMAL. This is a sign of a compression issue and a faster starter motor can hide this fact, so be wary. Hence, ALWAYS get a compression test done.
Third, the RX8 community is very helpful and the few shops in the UK that specialize in the RX8 are true lifesavers. These people can help you understand everything before going out and buying a used one. Pleaes sign up to rx8ownersclub.co.uk and/or rx8club.com and browse through their buying guides and research as much as you can on the intricacies of the car to help you make an informed decision.
Fourth, no doubt the best route to go if you want to spend under £5,000 is to buy a car with a bad motor and get the engine rebuilt by a professional like Hayward Rotary or Rotary Revs. These guys will completely rebuild your engine and offer a 2-3 year 30,000 mile warranty for under £3,000. The warranty even covers track days so long as you follow the warranty's very specific instructions about modifying the car, the type of oil used, keeping track of your service history, etc. Going down this route will cost you about £5,000 to £6,500 because an RX8 with a bad motor will go for £1,000-£1,500, the rebuild is £2,500-£3,000, and any extra miscellaneous parts that may be needed during the rebuild (like a catalytic converter, clutch and oil cooler lines) could be up to another £1,500-£2,000.
Fifth, the RX8 is a high maintenance vehicle. You can't and should not drive it like every other car. For one, do not drive the RX8 on short trips as the engine will not properly warm up and as the article says you should not shut it off when it's cold. Another thing to remember is that you should rev it to 8,000-9,000 rpms at least once per driving session to expel the un-burnt carbon that gets stuck in the engine. This will keep your seals alive longer and keep compression higher. Don't worry, whether or not you rev the car to the limit the mpg will still be about 20. Finally, check your oil at all times. The car will not use much more oil than your typical BMW or whatever when driven normally but will use a significant amount if you have just tracked it for the last two hours, so best advice is to check it before setting out or every time you fill it up.
Sixth, the RX8 does not make 228bhp. The highest dynos recorded are about 200-205 bhp on a stock motor but most will dyno between 180bhp and 195bhp. This might stop you from buying the car but even with the limited bhp figure it still tends to keep up with faster cars due to its light weight and the way the engine makes power.
Seventh, in my opinion the RX8 can be a very reliable car when properly taken car of and maintenance costs on a healthy motor will not be much more than your typical vehicle. I wouldn't use this car as a vehicle which will do more than 5,000 - 8,000 miles per year due to mpg but it can be done. This is a perfect car for the weekend and the track and the price of entry under £10,000 for even the newest R3's which have better reliability due to a few tweaks to the engine is a steal for such an enjoyable car to drive.
Edited by cib24 on Thursday 28th March 16:29
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