DVLA Wrong again on SORN
Discussion
M4cruiser said:
Anyone else had one of these £80 "fines" recently:-
......... Even though the SORN was done?
Obviously the DVLA haven't fixed the problem they ended up in court for in 2010.
What should this owner do?
Was it done by post or online? If by post did the RK obtain proof of posting? If so and I was the RK, I would invite DVLA to try their luck in court. A DCA has no powers whatever without a judgment. The Swansea Mafia lost all of these cases;......... Even though the SORN was done?
Obviously the DVLA haven't fixed the problem they ended up in court for in 2010.
What should this owner do?
DVLA v Collins, Clerkenwell Magistrates Court, October 2009
DVLA v O’Sullivan, Staines County Court October 2009
DVLA v Peck, Horsham County Court April 2010
The judgments are not binding but could be persuasive.
Duncan Peck made a FoI request which confirmed that DVLA lost mail internally and had no system of tracking it. When dealing with this Agency it is essential to keep a comprehensive file of everything you do with copies of all documents and verbatim notes of any conversations you have (best to avoid the latter where posssible and do it all in writing).
The RK should make sure the vehicle is parked on private property within the curtilage of his/her dwelling house. Any attempt by the DVLA's contractor to clamp and/or seize it in such circumstances is unlawful. VEAS has form for shooting first and asking questions afterwards - http://www.getwokingham.co.uk/news/s/2117515_dvla_... - if they do so, demand they remove the clamp. If the vehicle has been seized they should return all the money they unlawfully extracted.
DVLA said:
Thank you for your request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) 2000 relating to wheel clamping regulations.
Please note that although the request has been received via the Freedom of Information (FOI) e-mail address, the request falls outside the FOIA and will be dealt with as “business as usual”.
The DVLA’s powers to clamp and impound unlicensed vehicles are catered for in legislation and Statutory Instruments. The Vehicle Excise Duty (Immobilisation, Removal and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1997 as amended provide for the immobilisation, removal and disposal of unlicensed vehicles on the public road.
From 1 October 2008 unlicensed vehicles can be wheel clamped and/or impounded even if kept off the public road, but there are important exceptions to the new powers. It remains an offence to keep an unlicensed vehicle on a public road. The change is that enforcement action can now be taken off road (subject to exceptions) where previously it could not.
The onus is on the keeper of a vehicle to ensure that the appropriate tax disc has been obtained and is displayed on the corresponding vehicle or Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) declaration made to the Agency. Any vehicle with a SORN declaration must be kept on private land and not used on the public road until the appropriate tax disc has been obtained and is displayed on the vehicle related vehicle.
This position has not changed following the introduction of expanded enforcement powers and a vehicle that has a valid SORN in force can still be kept off road. There is no change to the SORN legislation; a vehicle kept off the public road with a valid SORN in force is fully compliant therefore no enforcement action will be taken against it. However, where there is reason to believe the SORN has been breached the vehicle can be wheelclamped or impounded.
The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private driveways, garages and allocated parking bays. Also vehicles kept by a motor trader or vehicle tester at a business premise cannot be wheelclamped or impounded.
It is also worth noting that any road not maintained at public expense (i.e. private/unadopted) is outside the scope of VERA.Please note that although the request has been received via the Freedom of Information (FOI) e-mail address, the request falls outside the FOIA and will be dealt with as “business as usual”.
The DVLA’s powers to clamp and impound unlicensed vehicles are catered for in legislation and Statutory Instruments. The Vehicle Excise Duty (Immobilisation, Removal and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1997 as amended provide for the immobilisation, removal and disposal of unlicensed vehicles on the public road.
From 1 October 2008 unlicensed vehicles can be wheel clamped and/or impounded even if kept off the public road, but there are important exceptions to the new powers. It remains an offence to keep an unlicensed vehicle on a public road. The change is that enforcement action can now be taken off road (subject to exceptions) where previously it could not.
The onus is on the keeper of a vehicle to ensure that the appropriate tax disc has been obtained and is displayed on the corresponding vehicle or Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) declaration made to the Agency. Any vehicle with a SORN declaration must be kept on private land and not used on the public road until the appropriate tax disc has been obtained and is displayed on the vehicle related vehicle.
This position has not changed following the introduction of expanded enforcement powers and a vehicle that has a valid SORN in force can still be kept off road. There is no change to the SORN legislation; a vehicle kept off the public road with a valid SORN in force is fully compliant therefore no enforcement action will be taken against it. However, where there is reason to believe the SORN has been breached the vehicle can be wheelclamped or impounded.
The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private driveways, garages and allocated parking bays. Also vehicles kept by a motor trader or vehicle tester at a business premise cannot be wheelclamped or impounded.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr... - so if it is SORN the DVLA's enforcers should back off.
Unfortunately VEAS don't bother to do their homework until after they get it wrong.
>>>>>>It is also worth noting that any road not maintained at public expense (i.e. private/unadopted) is outside the scope of VERA.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr... - so if it is SORN the DVLA's enforcers should back off.<<<<<<<<
Not strictly true Red Devil
SI 2008 No 2266 dictates that from October 2008 DVLA have the power to clamp vehicles that are NOT ON a public Road if there are breaches of continuous registration requirements ( i.e untaxed and unsorned) i.e. unadopted roads, commons, public car parks or roads maintained by Housing Associations. It does NOT cover vehicles parked in areas associated with a dwelling e.g. garages/driveways.
dvd
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr... - so if it is SORN the DVLA's enforcers should back off.<<<<<<<<
Not strictly true Red Devil
SI 2008 No 2266 dictates that from October 2008 DVLA have the power to clamp vehicles that are NOT ON a public Road if there are breaches of continuous registration requirements ( i.e untaxed and unsorned) i.e. unadopted roads, commons, public car parks or roads maintained by Housing Associations. It does NOT cover vehicles parked in areas associated with a dwelling e.g. garages/driveways.
dvd
Thank you for the info.
In the case in question here the SORN was done on-line, and the confirmation e-mail was received!
The car is kept off-road, but that does not seem to be the issue, just their incorrect claim that a SORN (or tax) wasn't done.
How can they get it so wrong? The DVLA seem like thugs, i.e. pay 80 pounds or we'll crush your car.
In the case in question here the SORN was done on-line, and the confirmation e-mail was received!
The car is kept off-road, but that does not seem to be the issue, just their incorrect claim that a SORN (or tax) wasn't done.
How can they get it so wrong? The DVLA seem like thugs, i.e. pay 80 pounds or we'll crush your car.
This case seems different to others I have found on Google - all the others I could find were about posting the SORN, not doing it on line. I wonder if anyone else knows about an on-line SORN problem like this? i.e. still getting the 80 pounds charge despite doing it by the DVLA's "guaranteed" method?
There seems to be a lot of hatred about this SORN business. Some would like the chief executive to do something about it. Have you see this strange case of his Northern Ireland equivalent, who was suspended then turned up dead:-
Quite a strange story.
There seems to be a lot of hatred about this SORN business. Some would like the chief executive to do something about it. Have you see this strange case of his Northern Ireland equivalent, who was suspended then turned up dead:-
Quite a strange story.
Edited by M4cruiser on Monday 8th April 11:11
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